Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 60

Thread: The Sam Cozza Memorial 'Make Your @#!% Free Throws' Thread

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Just north of I-80
    Posts
    46,982

    Default The Sam Cozza Memorial 'Make Your @#!% Free Throws' Thread

    17 - 30 tonight. Terrible. It will bite them in the butt eventually.

    ETA: On the season, they have attempted 386, made 253 (65.5%)

    Kispert leads the squad w/ 77.5%

    They shot 80% vs Oregon (16-20) and 78% vs. UW (11-14) so there's evidence they can do better than 56%

    Full stats here: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...tats/_/id/2250
    Last edited by RenoZag; 01-03-2020 at 01:29 PM. Reason: Updated Season #'s

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Spokane, Wa.
    Posts
    740

    Default

    - yeah it might, but it hasn't yet.
    - we seem to be obsessive about free throws, maybe it is because it is so out in the open, no movement, something we can all relate to having stood at a free throw line ourselves.

    - anyway, here is some perspective. the typical, average college basketball team makes 70% of their free throws.
    - if we shot 70%, that is 21 -30, only an addl 4 points.
    - plus once when we missed two free throws we got the rebound and made a basket. so it was kind of like we were either 19 - 30, or 17 - 28.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,736

    Default

    The Achilles of legend was terrible at free throws— you know, on account of his heel being dipped in the river Styx, and all. It came back to bite him in the end. That, and chin-ups on the rim after a dunk.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Spokane, Wa.
    Posts
    740

    Default

    - actually it was his whole body that was dipped into the river, and thus gave him complete body protection. he was held by the heel, and that being the only body part not touching the magically waters, was his only vulnerable body part.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,736

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GonzaGAW View Post
    - actually it was his whole body that was dipped into the river, and thus gave him complete body protection. he was held by the heel, and that being the only body part not touching the magically waters, was his only vulnerable body part.
    You messed up my metaphor

    ETA: a quick Google search would have helped me on that.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Spokane, Wa.
    Posts
    740

    Default

    - sorry to step on your toes bro, but it is the only mythology story i remember from school days.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    7,165

    Default

    Story ...don’t care ......we won!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,736

    Default

    It’s all good. I appreciate the correction. The point still remains that Achilles was really bad at free throws— or
    or was he really good? $&@!...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Side
    Posts
    5,491

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    Story ...don’t care ......we won!
    You obviously do.
    Love the zags for life

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,736

    Default

    That’s the other perspective. It was a Herculean effort elsewhere and I suppose it can’t get any worse at the line (FTs had to be historically bad, or at least close to it)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    9,254

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    Story ...don’t care ......we won!
    +1. Made it when it mattered
    21 Straight Big Dances

    11 Straight Round of 32s

    10 Sweet Sixteens (5 Straight)

    4 Elite Eights

    2017 FINAL FOUR

    2 Winningest Players in college basketball history (Karnowski 137, Perkins 134)

    The Best Point Guard to ever play the game: John Stockton, most assists, most steals.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Spokane / Goodyear, AZ
    Posts
    1,930

    Default

    Would it be too much to ask of Woolridge that he look at the basket for at least three seconds before shooting? The guy just glances up and flips it. No concentration, no focus and almost flippant about his shot not taking it seriously. Yes he made two in AZ but man, his focus is just off at the line. Coaches? What say you?
    To Fish & Game: Keep streams stocked well for Mr. Few!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,802

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GrizZAG View Post
    Would it be too much to ask of Woolridge that he look at the basket for at least three seconds before shooting? The guy just glances up and flips it. No concentration, no focus and almost flippant about his shot not taking it seriously. Yes he made two in AZ but man, his focus is just off at the line. Coaches? What say you?
    You read my mind. He's way too quick. Probably a prior coaching suggestion somewhere in his career. Some coaches say to poor FT players, "pretend you're making a shot during play. Be quick." It's clearly not working. Someone's got to alter this process. He's 44 of 84 on the season, which clearly suggests a change of approach. Imagine the difference in team points if he made even half of those misses.

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GrizZAG View Post
    Would it be too much to ask of Woolridge that he look at the basket for at least three seconds before shooting? The guy just glances up and flips it. No concentration, no focus and almost flippant about his shot not taking it seriously. Yes he made two in AZ but man, his focus is just off at the line. Coaches? What say you?
    he does it that way because he lacks confidence at the line...not because he's flippant. he does it fast because if he takes time...he'll start to think about it and make it worse.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    seattle, spokane
    Posts
    3,229

    Default

    The reason I agree with Reborn on this is that this is the type of skill that can get significantly better for most poor free throw shooters. Muscle memory, we all have experienced, can be developed by hundreds of reps especially in circumstances that resemble the pressure of a game. The serve in tennis is another good example along with pitching in baseball. The whole episode is entirely without interference from outside factors (except maybe wind and lighting, etc).
    Why do some lean back when taking the shot, rather than forward, thus making their shot up to a foot further away from the basket?
    why do some lean back when shooting their second free thrown in a row, making the two shots different
    why do some not exhibit almost exactly the same ritual when shooting?
    why do some players practice a free throw without even coming close to the maximal odds arc, we dont seem to have one now, but JWIII did that, and Rui's arc seemed to me to be quite variable
    Most elite skills in the game are dependent on succeeding through the complexity of what the other player is doing, which sometimes relies upon skills hard to improve from effort alone, such as speed of reflexes, poor IQ or game IQ, jumping ability, shape of body, etc.
    but effort and reps are totally in the control of the individual and there is little excuse for a team or player to not take this to the limit. How many games in a season are won or lost by a point or two, and possibly more important sometimes, momentum changing free throws? It can also handicap the team to be told in the last few minutes which players not to foul.

    https://www.usab.com/youth/news/2010...ee-throws.aspx

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ct-free-throw/
    We studied the free throw for about five years.
    One of the first things we learned from our simulations and by watching TV footage was that players with the same consistency can shoot free throws with anywhere from 75 to 90 percent accuracy. The difference was that the 90 percent players were being consistent at the right shot - the best trajectory.

    It just makes sense to me, since there is a limit to the physical number of hours players can spend practicing, that they dedicate time to the skills which effort can improve. Especially those that directly affect scoring.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    13,243

    Default

    They need to find a guy.....maybe it's Gilder?.....who they can rely upon to lock up these games at the end. Don't get me wrong. 17-30 is bad. But what was really bad is that GU had a very, very comfortable lead in the last couple minutes and they just couldn't hit the freebies. It's one thing to miss a free throw at the 15:22 mark in the 1st half, but to miss that many foul shots near the end........This game should've been a nice 13 pt. win. Woolridge has never been a good foul shooter, so he's not the man. I am surprised that Petrusev cannot sink them with his touch.......

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    372

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gonzagafan62 View Post
    +1. Made it when it mattered
    Missed lots when it mattered too

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,736

    Default

    At the end of the game the opposing team will be doing what they can to prevent the best FT shooters from getting the ball and we should be trying to get it to them. Killie would have been the guy because he is reliable and fairly easy to get the ball to. Kispert would be my second choice but if they trap him we might have issues because of his ball-handling. I think the pressure must have been on last night, but I think some of this is a statistical anomaly that will regress back to the mean.

    I agree with Woolridge (and mentioned it here before, actually). Admon is almost as bad but gets better results. I would ask Woolridge to change because what he's doing isn't working. I had compared it in the past to how I putt.-- badly, with no method or ritual at all, some of which gets your head right.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    1,268

    Default

    The great thing is, we still have plenty to work on and were winning games big games.
    America's Team!

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    7,325

    Default

    My assumption has always been that free throw shooting is kind of like putting.....if you are confident and relaxed you putt better but if you have the yipps you dread it...

    It is .the pressure to not fail at something you are expected to do.. but.....over the years I have seen some of the Zags become much improved....I won't check the numbers but it seems to me that players like Sacre and Clarke improved.....

    Woolridge just looked so confident on those that closed them out...

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Spokane
    Posts
    997

    Default

    Way too much flat-footed, no knee bend, out-of-rhythm free throw shooting on this team. In other words the simple fundamentals are inconsistent or lacking. On a team this talented, I don’t get it

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    sierra foothills
    Posts
    13,088

    Default

    on FTs, there's a textbook. if your way isn't reliable, things can be done to address that from the textbook, without going deep into it. it does not include rushing through the moment but instead believing you want to be there in it...FREE throws. whatever you're doing, you have to somehow prove to yourself that you can make those so in those moments you believe in yourself. there's lots in the textbook on how to do that

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    13,243

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    At the end of the game the opposing team will be doing what they can to prevent the best FT shooters from getting the ball and we should be trying to get it to them. Killie would have been the guy because he is reliable and fairly easy to get the ball to. Kispert would be my second choice but if they trap him we might have issues because of his ball-handling. I think the pressure must have been on last night, but I think some of this is a statistical anomaly that will regress back to the mean.

    I agree with Woolridge (and mentioned it here before, actually). Admon is almost as bad but gets better results. I would ask Woolridge to change because what he's doing isn't working. I had compared it in the past to how I putt.-- badly, with no method or ritual at all, some of which gets your head right.
    The other thing about Tillie is that he made the foul shots that sealed the final four win vs. South Carolina that carried GU to the title game. That's as clutch as it gets. 72,000 in the stands, millions watching......

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Just north of I-80
    Posts
    46,982

    Default

    5 - 11 in the first half vs. Portland. . .

    Finished 11 -23 for the game. . .47.8%
    Last edited by RenoZag; 01-02-2020 at 09:01 PM.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    18,243

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RenoZag View Post
    5 - 11 in the first half vs. Portland. . .pitiful.
    As I said in Game thread.

    Not need to stand and shoot at the line.

    Move back 3 steps, do a head fake, drive 2 steps, shoot jump shot.

    60%
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •