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Thread: Zags vs Michigan Post game thoughts

  1. #151
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    Yes we looked gassed. With a short bench to start and then the injuries, we ran out of steam.

    Also the world will not end. They are a really good team and have super experience. They only had one freshmen in their top nine players ( nineth in minutes with 11 and seventh in scoring). Their bigs were senior and junior and played an average of thirty minutes. As young and inexperienced as a team we all should have known their would be games like this.
    We ran out of gas. With 16minutes to go we were down by 2. With Watson and the guards healthy we might not have extended so much energy for the others in the Oregon game and this game. Go zags get well and ready for next month

  2. #152
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    Wow! The predictable meltdown.
    We were beat by a stronger and better team with a great coach. No shame in that but we exposed some weaknesses against top tier competition for sure. Petro is still emerging and has room for growth in terms of playing above the rim and recognition of impossible situations. He needs to slam it home, not go up soft, that would help. I cringed when Woolridge tied up with Timme over a rebound causing a silly turnover. That was really bad. UM 3 pointers were coming from everywhere and we had no answer. Add a totally skilled Big man that is huge and it's tough to imagine us winning. Timme couldn't get traction on anything hardly and was on the deck a lot. He needs to be ready for those feeds. Perhaps he was the player who was most fatigued from an intense schedule.
    They will watch this game and see their individual deficits and it will be clear where improvement is needed no doubt.
    We got pretty excited beating a very good Oregon team and thought this team was maybe further along than we thought (me included). We are ahead of expectations I believe and they will get better no doubt. St Mary's and BYU will be formidable and December is no cakewalk so the journey could be rough this year as expected. Still love this team.
    To Fish & Game: Keep streams stocked well for Mr. Few!

  3. #153
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    Washington, Arizona and UNC will have this game tape as the base for how they practice for us. Few and Co. has their hands full in the coming weeks. I wonder if there will be no redshirts this year based on the uncertainty with Woolridge, Gilder, Tillie and Watson.

    Go Zags!

  4. #154
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    A confluence of factor. Remember Florida State? We had a big big win after looking forward to the game for a whole year and then got bounced in the next game. Somewhat the same thing here. Big Big game against West Coast rival Oregon. And then another let down which should have been expected and of course everything else. The tournament was a fantastic crucible for the rest of the season and especially the NCAA's so lets not get too down.

  5. #155
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    Really the most concerning takeaway is that we just don't guard the three well enough.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by zag67 View Post
    Yes we looked gassed. With a short bench to start and then the injuries, we ran out of steam.

    Also the world will not end. They are a really good team and have super experience. They only had one freshmen in their top nine players ( nineth in minutes with 11 and seventh in scoring). Their bigs were senior and junior and played an average of thirty minutes. As young and inexperienced as a team we all should have known their would be games like this.
    We ran out of gas. With 16minutes to go we were down by 2. With Watson and the guards healthy we might not have extended so much energy for the others in the Oregon game and this game. Go zags get well and ready for next month
    agree with all....one puzzling thing about Michigan....how were they not ranked?

    experience size talent toughness gonna be good year for Michigan if they stay focused and injury free

  7. #157
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    Those of you who played basketball at a high level, collegiate level especially, know that
    It is near impossible to beat a good team without your legs. The Zags currently have half of their
    Main rotation guys, including their best player, both starting guards, and their most versatile
    Player (Watson) either not playing at all, or playing on damaged wheels.
    Bad legs = no explosiveness defensively, laterally or vertically, cant’t close out on shooters as
    well as necessary, harder to keep quicker players, any players, in front of you.
    And as Reborn can attest, if your legs are not there, shooting is an iffy proposition...
    especially from the perimeter.
    When they heal, This team will be fine... if they never get healthy, they will struggle against the
    upper tier teams they play.

  8. #158
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    read all of this thread, many I agree with here, and wonder how MI wasn't already ranked as well. Maybe because of new inexperienced coach? I don't know, but tip of the cap to Howard for getting the matchups he wanted in the paint and dominating them

    Tillie played 53 total minutes including the minutes in the MI game, had a nice second game vs. MI on O. 3 Zags played 40+ less than 24 hours before the MI game, including 30 or more the day before that vs. SoM. Interestingly all 3 played best in their second game vs. Oregon, thankfully, before the 3rd game turnaround after gassing it all for the Oregon win

    hard for me to not include these facts about the minutes in the analysis to provide context to the numbers and performances, which are what they are. also the knocks guys were obviously playing through, and the injury to Watson, those guys get nothing but credit from me for gutting that out and beating Oregon.

    as for the O, not sure how many looks directly at the cup one might want from an offense in a game but we got tons vs. MI and missed a lot of bunnies but I'd take that execution, except for the finish part, every time down the floor. make half of those misses and maybe it's a different game

    on D, too many times 2 players going for the block leaving an unchecked player for the easy O board and finish; that can be coached and corrected, we've seen this before, but it hurt.

    Ayayi, I'm with all of you. Drew building on his frame over the next couple of years appears to be important, and another coachable/doable thing as he matures, like Joel has.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goshzagit View Post
    We changed our offense a couple yrs ago to accommodate the elite bigs, lottery picks rolling through Gonzaga, and the overall athleticism we've had in recent yrs. Much more hi lo, dribble drive, etc.

    We dont have the same type of elite bigs right now, esp with Tillie at 50% or so. Petrusev is skilled yet once fatigue set in, it was all over.

    Also, our guards arent running the pick n roll game compared to previous years.

    Again, outside Tillie, no personel to execute it at a high lvl.

    Teams that match our overall size we will struggle with, UNC matches us, Zona matches, etc.

    Less athletic and brute in the post this yr as well.

    Today's game was the type to run our classic flex, and half court execution, one on one along perimeter and in post was pretty pointless, again, besides Tillie on occasion.

    We needed hot potatoe ball movement and numerous cutters.

    We ran 1 or 2 plays the entire game, and even less once Kispert couldn't get open.

    Our ball screen offense, and one on one hi low was guarded.

    No back up plan, nor can these guards make shots off iso plays or breakdowns.
    re. this and MickMick's observation, I think it's why we're seeing the evolving/devolving? defenses that reach reach reach; since the game is so perimeter oriented, coaches and players have had to do something besides just get punked down low by old school post players who are guarded by players not as skilled or equipped to deal down there, so they teach the Malone reach. I could be totally wrong about that but we're definitely seeing more of that grabby D allowed which used to bring an almost automatic whistle. MI did not play like that, but lots of old school inside banging and finishing instead

    adjust adjust adjust

  10. #160
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    Honestly, I do not attribute the beaten we got to being tired. I do give a lot of the credit to Michigan who was a really great team yesterday, both offensively and defensively. They played a great game. Their defense is what I believe hurt us, and when a team isn't running any offense, a great defensive team will kill you. They guarded us closely, which took away Kispert's shooting, and to some extent, Ayayi's. The other thing is, that when you have guards who can not shoot from the outside, doubling up the post players will kill you. That, in my opinion, is what hurt Petrusev. They had a really talented, experienced center, and they doubled him. I am kind of lost for words about why our defense kept letting a team that was obviously hot, shoot wide open threes.

    The other thing that I believe hurt us is that we ARE inexperienced and were playing a very experienced and talented team. These guys for Michigan were good last year. The positive take away for me, is that Michigan may not get a lot better, and Gonzaga will. I have always believed that sometimes losing is a positive thing. Nothing teaches a team more than getting killed. And who knows, maybe we just played a team who will become the National Champion. If they continue to play like the way they played in the Bahamas, they certainly could be the National Champs. But what I really believe is that Gonzaga will get a lot better. Our coaches our our some of the best in the country. I have not lost faith at all, but I do have concerns.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  11. #161

    Smile Spirit of '76

    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Honestly, I do not attribute the beaten we got to being tired. I do give a lot of the credit to Michigan who was a really great team yesterday, both offensively and defensively. They played a great game. Their defense is what I believe hurt us, and when a team isn't running any offense, a great defensive team will kill you. They guarded us closely, which took away Kispert's shooting, and to some extent, Ayayi's. The other thing is, that when you have guards who can not shoot from the outside, doubling up the post players will kill you. That, in my opinion, is what hurt Petrusev. They had a really talented, experienced center, and they doubled him. I am kind of lost for words about why our defense kept letting a team that was obviously hot, shoot wide open threes.

    The other thing that I believe hurt us is that we ARE inexperienced and were playing a very experienced and talented team. These guys for Michigan were good last year. The positive take away for me, is that Michigan may not get a lot better, and Gonzaga will. I have always believed that sometimes losing is a positive thing. Nothing teaches a team more than getting killed. And who knows, maybe we just played a team who will become the National Champion. If they continue to play like the way they played in the Bahamas, they certainly could be the National Champs. But what I really believe is that Gonzaga will get a lot better. Our coaches our our some of the best in the country. I have not lost faith at all, but I do have concerns.

    Go Zags!!!
    After Friday's game I am reminded of a painting entitled The Spirit of '76. The battered yet unbowed remnants of a battle with the British army. Well we know how that turned out at the end of that "season"!.
    Now to the game: Clearly the Wolverines were somewhat better than a lot of people thought. And we were pretty beat up. But as they say in my old unit "No excuse Sir!" THE WORLD IS NOT COMING TO AN END!!! We may see these guys again and hopefully we will be healthy. How that matches up will more probably like the first ten minutes of the first half and the start of the second half. It's a long season but I like our prospects. Meanwhile we have next week to prepare for. Go Zags!

  12. #162
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    This is an inside out team, and it is incumbent on the bigs to figure this out. Whatever play we get out of Woolridge and Gilder is secondary. Petrusev is good player but isn’t used to being punched in the mouth like Michigan did to him. If he doesn’t answer the bell this team is an early exit in March, and may not win the WCC. This is a lot to put on somebody but this is the way it is, and is a reasonable ask for someone who tested the waters in
    the NBA draft last year.

    Tillie, as talented as he is, just isn’t the bell-cow player other bigs have been in the past. I don’t think the other players have it in them, either. I blame this in part on the system, because the Zags’ dog just don’t hunt without a back to the basket guy you can count on to run the offense through.

  13. #163
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    I was fortunate to watch all the B4A games in person AND that field was so strong. I expect 6 of the 8 teams will make the sweet 16 this year. With that being said, at this moment taking into consideration current health and experience of the teams, Michigan was by far the best team. 6 players who can make the 3 and 2 skilled bigs...there is not a team this year that would have beaten the Wolverines this week! No reason to bash the Zags and there is no reason to believe that UM will still be playing that well in March, but if they are, it will be 3 years in a row the B4A champ was also National Champ.
    It's What You learn AFTER You Know It All That Counts

  14. #164
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    I think a lot of people are over reacting to this game. Our only guard who is capable of making consistent shots from all three levels was completely hobbled this tournament. Woolridge is not going to be a perimeter scorer. The major failures for this game were game planning on both ends and failing to prevent the mental let down from beating Oregon. Our offense once again showed an inability to adjust to a defense designed to beat it. Few's Achilles heal has always been defense and the game plan on defense was down right atrocious. Somehow we allowed their best shooters get completely open looks and again our help defense was terrible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    This is an inside out team, and it is incumbent on the bigs to figure this out. Whatever play we get out of Woolridge and Gilder is secondary. Petrusev is good player but isn’t used to being punched in the mouth like Michigan did to him. If he doesn’t answer the bell this team is an early exit in March, and may not win the WCC. This is a lot to put on somebody but this is the way it is, and is a reasonable ask for someone who tested the waters in
    the NBA draft last year.

    Tillie, as talented as he is, just isn’t the bell-cow player other bigs have been in the past. I don’t think the other players have it in them, either. I blame this in part on the system, because the Zags’ dog just don’t hunt without a back to the basket guy you can count on to run the offense through.
    last year's team didn't have a dominant back to the basket big that the offense ran through..didn't even have a true big...did have crazy athleticism though.

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallaWallaZag View Post
    last year's team didn't have a dominant back to the basket big that the offense ran through..didn't even have a true big...did have crazy athleticism though.
    Not a prerequisite for being an inside/out team. Few also had a 6'10 freshman that he didn't bring out a lot because Clarke was such a unique, athletic, dominate player. Very tough to take him off the court.

    Whenever Few feels like the game is getting away from him, he always attempts to settle things down by working the ball inside. In other words, when he calls a timeout and draws up a play, it almost always results as an inside/out play. It has been his MO for the last dozen years or more. It is a staple of his hoops philosophy or his identity as a coach. It is also a reason why GU can compete with anyone when it comes to recruiting centers and power forwards.

    It was very out of the ordinary to see Michigan beat Few at his own game.
    I miss Mike Hart

  17. #167
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    Some have made comments about Few's coaching and his team's inability to defend the 3-point line....well Iowa State and UNC are pretty good, athletic teams and Michigan hit 10 and 11 threes against them and then 12 against the beat-up Zags...I think it is more of how well the Wolverines played in this tourney with great player and ball movement. I also believe it helps that they returned 4 of their top 7 players from last year, even with a new head coach.
    It's What You learn AFTER You Know It All That Counts

  18. #168
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    Oregon actually went 1-2 with a close come-from-behind win against a very good Seton Hall team!
    The Ducks won by 2 against Seton Hall, lost by 1 to the Zags, and then lost by 4 to the Tarheels...they could have easily been the team that got thrashed by the Wolverines!
    It's What You learn AFTER You Know It All That Counts

  19. #169
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    We lost 4 starters who happen to be top 4 scorers . Rui, Clarke, Josh and Snacks. We are bound to be losing some games. 3-4 kids injured and 4 new faces while Michigan has 3 seniors who know their program. Old guys with established players vs new guys with little experience in Few's system. This is how a team with high hopes goes down to defeat. If we play this game in March, I'm thinking the result would be different. We need to toughen up, get some guard play that is developed and mature in this system.

    I think we're luck to escape with 1 loss..
    going forward, we still have 3 OOC tough games. If we lose 1 I'd be happy. If we lose 2, still it's good record to build on. We need inexperience in this system to become experienced. After watching, guard play will need to come along quickly. Bigs doing ok but still all 4 of our bigs do need resolution of injuries and to toughen up. I do think we have the guns for a nice run but I'm doubting this is a title team. We play with what we've got.
    Wire this together with poor 3 pt shooting on our part and us playing little to no defense on 3's, it should not be surprising we got beat. They shot 56% on 3 and we were 30% and we didn't defend the 3. . they had 6 more than we did. Just a bad game...........everything is reversible though. At full strength, we have 8 good players. Not sure they're the caliber we're used to. We'll win our share.
    Last edited by MDABE80; 12-01-2019 at 01:11 PM.

  20. #170
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    This zag squad will make march and 2nd weekend imo. I see big things for next yr and this year will have growing pains. You got to be tougher with the ball inside the paint. You have to be strong with the ball. This team will peak late which is good and most likely will fall just short in sw16. I could be way wrong.

    It doesnt take away the fact Michigan housed us. We got lost on D and on O we werent physical enough. Time to move on.
    Love the zags for life

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