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Thread: Does the ball brand matter ?

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    Default Does the ball brand matter ?

    Over the first cup of coffee this morning, this filler from ESPN's M. Medcalf caught my eye, re: the brands of balls used in NCAA hoops:

    https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...all-road-teams

    "It was good when we played Wisconsin [with the Sterling ball]," Michigan State coach Tom Izzo quipped. "We just went out in the backyard, got a rock and tried to shoot with it."
    "The ball must also have a circumference of 29.5 inches to 30 inches. It must weigh between 20 ounces and 22 ounces. Any ball that meets those standards is legal, even if the seams and stitching vary. That's where the chaos ensues. Although most fans don't notice the differences, players accustomed to repetition certainly do."

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    It absolutely matters. I'm guessing most of the people on this board have a couple basketballs around the house. No two brands are the same. Play a pick up basketball game. What's the first thing you do? Check out the ball.

    Someone that has played basketball all their lives can likely tell what kind of basketball he is holding when blindfolded. Just by feel.

    Same as a major league pitcher. Ask Verlander if he felt the ball was different this year than last. He, along with the rest of the league knew it was wound tighter and the seams weren't as prominent. Basketball players are just as sensitive to the feel of the ball.

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    this topic comes up in the international games all the time. Here's an article about the 'feel' of the balls and the importance of it, the differences players feel

    https://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...809-story.html

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    There must be a follow up question.

    Has Gonzaga recently changed the ball they play with? Could that account for Kisperts shot being off?


    On a completely different note. I haven't been to any games live in many years. In the pre-game shoot around, has Kispert been hitting his threes?
    If so, what has changed between then and the game, and if not, why keep jacking them up? He can drive and finish at the rim. If he has a good floater, that might be what is needed to play beyond college.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    There must be a follow up question.

    Has Gonzaga recently changed the ball they play with? Could that account for Kisperts shot being off?


    On a completely different note. I haven't been to any games live in many years. In the pre-game shoot around, has Kispert been hitting his threes?
    If so, what has changed between then and the game, and if not, why keep jacking them up? He can drive and finish at the rim. If he has a good floater, that might be what is needed to play beyond college.
    Hes shooting 35.5% this year, his career average is 36.4%. Its two bad games. A 40% 3pt shooter doesn't make 2/5 every game. Some games hes 4/5, some hes 0/5. I'd like a little more consistency too, but I think with someone who mostly shoots 3's you're going to have good and bad games. I'd like to see him attack a little more and get after the boards a little more at his size, contribute in other ways on an off shooting night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdmiller7 View Post
    Hes shooting 35.5% this year, his career average is 36.4%. Its two bad games. A 40% 3pt shooter doesn't make 2/5 every game. Some games hes 4/5, some hes 0/5. I'd like a little more consistency too, but I think with someone who mostly shoots 3's you're going to have good and bad games. I'd like to see him attack a little more and get after the boards a little more at his size, contribute in other ways on an off shooting night.
    agree with the sentiment here, yet 2-13 3pt past 2 games is rough, yet its not that he's missing, its the way he's missing the shots.

    Law of averages, "streaky" shooting, an 'off night', etc all make sense, especially with shooters.

    However, those very same shooters barely miss, even most being in and out of the cylinder, a brick missing by 1/4", etc.

    Watching the tape, Corey is missing badly, often times barely getting to the basket with those shots. Something is off. His shot looks "labored" the last two games, almost tired looking, as its just clipping the front of the rim, or way over the rim from the baseline sides.

    He played 36 mins last game, and averaging over 32 mpg this season. The most mins he's ever in a single game before this season was 32 mins, and averaged 19 mpg overall.

    Maybe he's just fatigued and getting used to significant increase in mins. He leads the team in mins played, avg mins, etc, and his shot looks weak/tired/fatigued as of late.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    There must be a follow up question.

    Has Gonzaga recently changed the ball they play with? Could that account for Kisperts shot being off?


    On a completely different note. I haven't been to any games live in many years. In the pre-game shoot around, has Kispert been hitting his threes?
    If so, what has changed between then and the game, and if not, why keep jacking them up? He can drive and finish at the rim. If he has a good floater, that might be what is needed to play beyond college.
    They use Nike game balls. Texas A&M uses an Adidas ball.

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    Cory came out shooting cold in each of the last two games. He was fresh (not tired) when he started both games but couldn't hit the rim. Temporarily lost his groove. It will be back. This is typical of his past years. One night 4 points the next 24 points.
    Tillie missed about 20 3's in a row warming up before the last game, then came out in the game and knocked down the first one he shot. It comes and goes. For everyone.

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    Bilas, via twitter, re: Medcalf's article

    There is not one, regulation basketball for regular season games. Why? Money. Similarly, there is a regulation ball for the NCAA Tournament. Why? Money. Shocker.


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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    There must be a follow up question.

    Has Gonzaga recently changed the ball they play with? Could that account for Kisperts shot being off?


    On a completely different note. I haven't been to any games live in many years. In the pre-game shoot around, has Kispert been hitting his threes?
    If so, what has changed between then and the game, and if not, why keep jacking them up? He can drive and finish at the rim. If he has a good floater, that might be what is needed to play beyond college.
    Couldn't agree more. Attack the basket, draw a foul, get to the line. Seeing the ball go through the net can "turn the key" for the outside shots. They could run a couple of designed plays to get Corey free for shots other than treys. Certainly worth trying. Edit: I do think when our transition game is stymied (such as against UTA), it affects the tempo and rhythm (i.e. "flow") of the game. Kispert strikes me as a "feel" shooter who performs best in a quicker paced game.
    Last edited by ProVeeZag; 11-21-2019 at 07:16 PM. Reason: Add last sentence
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    It seems to me that Kispert gets to the rim by attacking when the defensive player closes out on him on the 3-point. They weren't closing out on anybody hard-- from what I remember-- in that last game. He is more of a threat to drive when his shot is falling. If it isn't falling, well...

    Now, a guy as big and strong as him probably could post up a guard a la Matt Bouldin and Jeremy Pargo, but I don't think I have seen that in his game.

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    Danger, Will Robinson !! Thread Hijack in Progress. . .

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    It seemed to me that there was more variability back in the day when they used real leather balls.

    Now that they're all synthetic material, it seems there is less variability among brands. I am surprised that they allow a half inch difference in circumference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoZag View Post
    Danger, Will Robinson !! Thread Hijack in Progress. . .
    Yes. The ball.

    Some guys love the deep grooves. I like the ball a little less tacky than some because I don't like stickiness when releasing a shot, but give me just about any ball that hasn't been used outside and I'm pretty happy. The NCAA Wilson balls are pretty good.

    I remember when NBA guys hated it when they switched balls several years ago, and seem to remember someone blaming it for dry and cracked fingers, but I might be imaging that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoZag View Post
    Danger, Will Robinson !! Thread Hijack in Progress. . .
    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    It seems to me that Kispert gets to the rim by attacking when the defensive player closes out on him on the 3-point. They weren't closing out on anybody hard-- from what I remember-- in that last game. He is more of a threat to drive when his shot is falling. If it isn't falling, well... [I BLAME THE BALL]*

    Now, a guy as big and strong as him probably could post up a guard a la Matt Bouldin and Jeremy Pargo, but I don't think I have seen that in his game.
    *[Edited to avoid thread hijacking]

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    The rim circumference is always the same, but the ball can be up to a half inch bigger.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    *[Edited to avoid thread hijacking]


    My point was more along the lines of: do we really need another thread about Corey Kispert's offensive woes. . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoZag View Post


    My point was more along the lines of: do we really need another thread about Corey Kispert's offensive woes. . .
    I agree.... Just having some fun with it

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    The old Wilson Jet had the best feel. If we played an away game and it wasn’t the Jet, we all noticed it right away. Not good. This was the 1970s.

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    This is from a thread I started on this subject from June 11, 2015

    Does GU keep on hand in Spokane, the basketballs they know their opponents will use right before a road game to that opponent? So that they can practice with those balls the days before the road game? Some coaches do this.

    The NCAA allows home teams to choose the basketball, and they can be up to 10% different in weight (20 oz to 22 oz). I am surprised at the weight differences allowed considering the tiny margins a shooter uses taking a shot, by the time the ball reaches the hoop. I wonder if some shooters are better than others in 'feeling' the difference between the lighter and heavier balls, and somehow taking this into account. The simple physics of hoisting a ball over 20 feet, that is even 5% different in weight than other balls I would think would be significant. Perhaps some of the best 3 pt shooters in the land are not those that have machine-like sameness in their release, but those who slightly alter their shot based on weight differences - whether consciously or not. The circumference differences, IMO are not significant at 1 centimeter.

    Unlike the NBA and NFL who are bound to a standardized ball for each team, each college BB team chooses the ball it likes best, out of seven or more choices. For instance Wisconsin is the only school to use the Sterling Basketball (manufactured in Puyallup, WA) and their home court advantage (from 2000-2012) was 6th in nation amounting to a nearly 8 pt advantage per home game. At least all D1 conferences are now required to use the same ball during the Conference playoffs. Also the NCAA Tournament requires the Wilson Ball, even though almost 63% of the D1 teams in the nation regularly select the Nike ball. Would it be useful if we use the Wilson ball before going to the Dance? Do we already do that?

    I wonder if the home teams are required to let the opponents use the balls that will be used in the game, for day-before, and pre-game practices? Does someone on our board know?
    Although this article from the NY Times is mostly about the home court advantage produced by every school choosing the ball used in home games, it also address your issue of 'feel' differing 'significantly' from one ball brand to another.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/02/sp...ry-continues-3

    -------------------------------
    I would love to know if the zags address this issue, as UCLA coaches and many other Big Conference coaches do, by keeping at least the four most common balls used, the Wilson, the Nike, the Spalding, and the Adidas.

    A UCLA bb coach Scott Garson, states "“You’ve got enough things to fight on the road; the last thing you need to fight is the ball.”
    ----------------------------------------
    Here is another article on the subject
    https://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/20...oad-nba-finals

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsGoZags View Post
    the Conference playoffs. Also the NCAA Tournament requires the Wilson Ball, even though almost 63% of the D1 teams in the nation regularly select the Nike ball. Would it be useful if we use the Wilson ball before going to the Dance? Do we already do that?

    I wonder if the home teams are required to let the opponents use the balls that will be used in the game, for day-before, and pre-game practices? Does someone on our board know?
    Although this article from the NY Times is mostly about the home court advantage produced by every school choosing the ball used in home games, it also address your issue of 'feel' differing 'significantly' from one ball brand to another.

    The home team does have to provide shoot around balls, but they don't always provide the quality of balls that will be used during the game; they can provide underinflated, worn out balls.
    https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...225-story.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    The home team does have to provide shoot around balls, but they don't always provide the quality of balls that will be used during the game; they can provide underinflated, worn out balls.
    https://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp...225-story.html
    I remember high school games when our opponents offered us their girls’ team’s balls. It may not have been malicious. Some schools may not have had enough regulation balls for two teams. My coach started bringing a bag of our older ones on the bus to use if that happened. Some of them got mixed up with the home team’s balls. Somehow, by the end of the season, we had an inventory of basketballs that were labeled with a half dozen high school names in varying sizes and condition. A couple were from teams we never played.
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