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Thread: Grad Transfers - overrated?

  1. #1
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    Default Grad Transfers - overrated?

    I wonder if in general the analysts and fans and ranking/seeding pundits put too much expected value in grad transfers' contributions to their eventual team. Anyone else see surprisingly minimal impact more often than not? I’m specifically thinking about the top names (Reid Travis, Kerry Blackshear) and how they changed the expectations of their destination programs, perhaps overly so. Maybe if you are a truly elite player in this era it is almost impossible that you will want to still be in college for year 4.

    The guards (Mooney) at T Tech and Jordan Matthews for the Zags were valuable for their teams deep playoff runs, but grad transfers do not really seem to ever appear on top 20-30 player lists for the seasons.

    Which grad transfers have made enough impacts on their teams to be considered one of the top 2 players on a final4 or elite 8 team? The articles,
    "listicles", and hype surrounding the annual "grad transfer lottery" implies that some will go one to have such an effect.
    Last edited by LTownZag; 11-18-2019 at 07:33 AM.

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    Basketball is a team game, and it's my belief that coaches go the Grad Transfer route to fill in a missing piece of the puzzle ... not to be the STAR that carries a team on his (or her) back.

    So my answer is "No" ... I don't believe Grad Transfers are overrated.

    "To be continued ....."
    Father Tony Lehman, SJ

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    Gozags. Well stated you beat me to it

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    Byron Wesley Jordan Matthews, Geno Crandall, Gilder, Woolridge. I'd say it's worked out pretty well for us. Only Geno didn't live up to my expectations, but was a great teammate and not a bust....just didnt rain 3s like I expected.

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    Well of course if you overate them, they are overrated.....

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    Implicit in the question is some kind of understanding of how these transfers have been generally rated by the CBB "world" or what their expected impacts were by those predicted season outcomes and team strengths.

    I'm not asking about Zaga grad transfers specifically.


    Have there been any grad transfers since the rule began, or in the past 6-8 years, who have been among the top 2 scorers or players by usage percent on a final4 team?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    Implicit in the question is some kind of understanding of how these transfers have been generally rated by the CBB "world" or what their expected impacts were by those predicted season outcomes and team strengths.

    I'm not asking about Zaga grad transfers specifically.


    Have there been any grad transfers since the rule began, or in the past 6-8 years, who have been among the top 2 scorers or players by usage percent on a final4 team?
    Hmmmm.

    I felt implicit in your question was a lack of understanding about Grad Transfers ....

    Superstars often head to the NBA after a year or two of college ball.

    Grad transfers have already graduated from college, yet have a year of eligibility left.

    If you're so interested in the answer to your question, why don't you go ahead and do the research and let the board know? This isn't the type of info that a person just has .... somebody has to do the work to find the answer.

    Why can't that person be you?

    Oh ... and if you weren't interested in "Zaga" Grad Transfers, why post your "query" here? Why not post it in the General Basketball forum?
    gobroncsgozags: "Have a great day in the podunk, crap hole known as Roslyn."

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    No NWG no championship game. Any question?
    To Fish & Game: Keep streams stocked well for Mr. Few!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizZAG View Post
    No NWG no championship game. Any question?
    I love NWG. But he wasn't a grad transfer.

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    No Jordan Mathews no championship game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    Implicit in the question is some kind of understanding of how these transfers have been generally rated by the CBB "world" or what their expected impacts were by those predicted season outcomes and team strengths.

    I'm not asking about Zaga grad transfers specifically.


    Have there been any grad transfers since the rule began, or in the past 6-8 years, who have been among the top 2 scorers or players by usage percent on a final4 team?
    Cam Johnson at UNC?
    "There is always some kid who may be seeing me for the first time. I owe him my best."--Joe DiMaggio

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    I thought he was. A transfer anyway.
    To Fish & Game: Keep streams stocked well for Mr. Few!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaZagFan View Post
    Cam Johnson at UNC?
    Nigel was not a grad transfer, and spent 2 years with Gonzaga. He could have stayed for the 2018 season.

    Johnson definitely seems like a highly effective player and was UNC's best shooter, and lead the team in points last year. He was also a very very unusual grad transfer, because he switched teams with 2 years of eligiblity left and went to a school in the same conference. But his 2nd season he lead an elite team. His first year at UNC (the only one 99% of grad transfers would have gotten) he was far less effective.


    Joe Cremo (from last season) was another highly recruited and regarded grad transfer who didn't contribute much to his eventual team (Villanova).



    Last year's T-Tech group had 2 grad transfers (Mooney, Owens) who were 3rd and 4th on the team in minutes and points. The player who was 3rd in points and minutes nearly had identical numbers to the #2 player, Moretti.

    That seems like the most successful use of grad transfers for any recent final4 team, though neither of them individually was in any kind of discussion for even 3rd-team all-american kind of honors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bing View Post
    Hmmmm.

    I felt implicit in your question was a lack of understanding about Grad Transfers ....
    What, in your view, did my question imply that I didn't understand?

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    Mooney had 17 points, 5 assists and 3 rebounds in their win over us (and we had a 1st team & 3rd team AA). He had 22 of Texas Tech's 61 points in their win over Michigan St.

    Does a player need to have an individual award to qualify as having an impact on their team?

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    Cam Johnson graduated from Pitt after 3 years, leaving him with 2 years of eligibility. And.....now your post no longer says that he wasn't a grad transfer, so I guess this reply is meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    neither of them individually was in any kind of discussion for even 3rd-team all-american kind of honors.
    Cam Johnson was an Honorable Mention for AP All-American.

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    The discussion I was hoping to generate wasn't about if any grad transfers have ever played a good game for or against the zags (they have) or had a good senior good season (they have).

    I was if others feel that the CBB world collectively (and writers in particular) overstate or overrate the likely contributions from players in the "grad transfer lottery" each year, and/overhype the importance of landing grad transfers, given that so few ever end up among a season's top 25 performers.


    The topic does strongly relate to GU, as the team consistently pursues and lands these 1yr veterans.

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    If a player has to be top 25 in the country to not be overhyped, then it's likely that all of our players this year are overhyped.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    The discussion I was hoping to generate wasn't about if any grad transfers have ever played a good game for or against the zags (they have) or had a good senior good season (they have).

    I was if others feel that the CBB world collectively (and writers in particular) overstate or overrate the likely contributions from players in the "grad transfer lottery" each year, and/overhype the importance of landing grad transfers, given that so few ever end up among a season's top 25 performers.


    The topic does strongly relate to GU, as the team consistently pursues and lands these 1yr veterans.
    No.

    Nearly every grad transfer Gonzaga has had in recent years has done at least as much as the coaching staff anticipated. If you are talking about media hype, most of those dolts don’t have a clue what coaching staffs are looking for or expect from transfers, grad or otherwise.

    Hint. Virtually no team is expecting a grad transfer to be a top twenty five player.

  21. #21
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    Generally speaking if a Grad transfer who was moving from a lesser program to a more successful program was going to make a huge impact (First round NBA draft type of good) he wouldn't be available because he would already be in the draft.
    Unless super rare situation like Cam Johnson typically grad transfers are going to be nice pieces or even very good players at the big time level. If they were going to be game changers (special players like BC or RH) they wouldnt be available.
    Reed Travis was an exceptional grad transfer but at the higest level a very good player not a special player or game changer.
    So I really don't think Grad transfers are overrated, anyone who expects them to be a first round draft pick type of talent is just expecting to much.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    The discussion I was hoping to generate wasn't about if any grad transfers have ever played a good game for or against the zags (they have) or had a good senior good season (they have).

    I was if others feel that the CBB world collectively (and writers in particular) overstate or overrate the likely contributions from players in the "grad transfer lottery" each year, and/overhype the importance of landing grad transfers, given that so few ever end up among a season's top 25 performers.


    The topic does strongly relate to GU, as the team consistently pursues and lands these 1yr veterans.
    FWIW: Scribe Jon Rothstein tweeted after the A&M game: "Ryan Woolridge will be one of the most impactful grad transfers in the country."
    Last edited by RenoZag; 11-18-2019 at 11:21 AM. Reason: Facts, dagnabit


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    Quote Originally Posted by scrooner View Post
    If a player has to be top 25 in the country to not be overhyped, then it's likely that all of our players this year are overhyped.
    Top 25 players can certainly have been overhyped (see Cam Reddish last year, for example).

    If you are "hyped" or "rated" or "evaluated" as being X, and at the season's end you were not close to being "X", then you were by definition overhyped. You might still end the season as a very good player. (see the final year from Miles Bridges, or Ethan Happ, for example).

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