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Thread: How GU non-conference schedules are built

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    Default How GU non-conference schedules are built


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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdawg View Post
    Unconvincing. Whole lotta spin. Reads like Roth reporting to the board of trustees.

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    Don't know that anyone was trying to convince you of anything jazz......just sharing information for Zag fans.

    We know you already have voiced your theory of the Zags scheduling the way they do to try to prop up Fews win/loss record.

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdawg View Post
    Don't know that anyone was trying to convince you of anything jazz......just sharing information for Zag fans.

    We know you already have voiced your theory of the Zags scheduling the way they do to try to prop up Fews win/loss record.

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
    Other than that, it’s dry and uninformative. Did you really learn something new? C’mon.
    There are 8 jelly donuts on this year’s OOC schedule. That’s silly. The only good thing you can say about the Dunkin’s is that GU hasn’t provided a reliable way to watch the games.

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    I don't care for home games that are over in the first 5 minutes....personally I would rather see them lose to a good team than win games by 50 points.....or at least play local cupcakes....

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Unconvincing. Whole lotta spin. Reads like Roth reporting to the board of trustees.
    LOL. If Gonzaga wants a home/home with Nevada, SDSU, WSU, and certain Pac-12s, Big 12s, SECs, Big East teams, it's as easy as picking up the phone, penciling in proposed dates, and locking those dates in around March of the next year. There will be some unavailability, but just move down the list. I imagine a call from Gonzaga gets returned pretty quickly. The home/homes with UNC, MSU, etc. require relationships built over years and scheduling with ACC teams presents certain challenges due to their limited flexibility. But the others, seems like a pretty straightforward process. The program seems to be pretty good at locking in home buy games. The challenge, I think, is to get teams like Montana or Air Force to play in the Kennel every year without the expectation of a return game. The North Dakota games are good home games.

    Would love to see the Zags play in at least one or more of those promoter-sponsored single neutral site games each year, like the one against Tennessee last year.

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    A story written more for the many Zag fans who may not be as familiar with how scheduling works -- nothing wrong with that (not everyone has the amazing jazz level of basketball knowledge).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdawg View Post
    A story written more for the many Zag fans who may not be as familiar with how scheduling works -- nothing wrong with that (not everyone has the amazing jazz level of basketball knowledge).
    Granted. Or knowledge about how institutions of higher education really work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I don't care for home games that are over in the first 5 minutes....personally I would rather see them lose to a good team than win games by 50 points.....or at least play local cupcakes....
    Please note before you read the below that I am not singling our the above post as my response can pretty much be in regards to any on this chain. As such, I tend to only post when I have true experience, insight, or info. In this case, I have been involved with college scheduling previously.
    When looking at schedules/scheduling it is IMPERATIVE to remember that every school has an agenda. Some need money so they never play at home in non-conference. Some need as many wins as possible to try and save a coaches job. Some want winnable games but only if a loss is not harmful. I can list plenty more “some” examples. The point though is that scheduling is not easy. When you add to the standard obstacles that we at Gonzaga essentially win almost every game and that we are located on the far end of the country, one starts to understand why many power 5 schools won’t travel to us. Another thing to factor in is the area in which coaches want exposure to recruits. Let’s be honest here, do you think most power schools not directly on the west coast expect to land a recruit from Washington? No. So why travel to Spokane to almost assuredly lose and gain nothing from it.
    All of the above is why we rarely see mediocre power 5 teams on our schedule. I think the program has done a masterful job of locking Gonzaga into these strong Thanksgiving tournaments and convincing strong programs to play home and homes.

    I do agree though that it would be fantastic to try and schedule a neutral shootout against a power team regularly just like we had with Tennessee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagBlue View Post
    Please note before you read the below that I am not singling our the above post as my response can pretty much be in regards to any on this chain. As such, I tend to only post when I have true experience, insight, or info. In this case, I have been involved with college scheduling previously.
    When looking at schedules/scheduling it is IMPERATIVE to remember that every school has an agenda. Some need money so they never play at home in non-conference. Some need as many wins as possible to try and save a coaches job. Some want winnable games but only if a loss is not harmful. I can list plenty more “some” examples. The point though is that scheduling is not easy. When you add to the standard obstacles that we at Gonzaga essentially win almost every game and that we are located on the far end of the country, one starts to understand why many power 5 schools won’t travel to us. Another thing to factor in is the area in which coaches want exposure to recruits. Let’s be honest here, do you think most power schools not directly on the west coast expect to land a recruit from Washington? No. So why travel to Spokane to almost assuredly lose and gain nothing from it.
    All of the above is why we rarely see mediocre power 5 teams on our schedule. I think the program has done a masterful job of locking Gonzaga into these strong Thanksgiving tournaments and convincing strong programs to play home and homes.

    I do agree though that it would be fantastic to try and schedule a neutral shootout against a power team regularly just like we had with Tennessee.
    Well put. The TG tourneys are great as are a handful of OOC games vs blue bloods. But scheduling is more art than science and I believe playing eight cupcakes even in a year that could be down is not acceptable to a top 10 program. GU can’t have it both ways. If it’s a top 10 program, and I believe it is, it can’t hide behind the halcyon cry of no one will play us. Nova went into Saint John arena last night and got waxed. So what?

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    The only reason I can think of for the 8 annual home cupcakes is Gonzaga seems to really like the concession revenue and reduced travel that come with the extra couple home games. If they cut the cupcakes from 8 to 4 there would be 2 less home games per year, unless they can convince some good teams to some 2 and 1 deals or 2 and 2 with the second away game being a neutral site in the other team's geographic area.

    Drop 4 of the cupcakes, add a standing neutral game against Memphis/Houston/Tennessee/Kentucky/etc. in Houston or Dallas, add WSU back to the home/home rotation, schedule a standing home/home with UCLA/USC and try to get a 2 and 1 deal with a solid MWC team or mid-major and boom, we have a 5 star schedule that gels with our five star recruits.

    Ideally, we could just schedule home games against Portland and Pacific as the first two games of the year, then play two other teams from the MWC or AAC in February, but that's unlikely (though some other conferences are now experimenting with November conference games).

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    I feel for the season ticket holders, who pay a lot of money to support the program. You wouldn't hear so much griping if the WCC was more competitive.

    I was a UTEP season ticket holder during the 80s. Haskins was given a break about OOC, because the WAC was so damn good back then. The formula for winning the league was simple: win your home games, split your road games. The cellar dweller back then was the Air Force Academy, but that road game gave opposing coaches fits, too.

    It's going to be tougher to schedule home and home series with Power 5 conferences, now that they've extended their conference season.

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    End of the day I count about 8, maybe 10, meaningful, competitive games this season. That’s a paltry number for such a spectacular program. IMO, that’s a major disconnect, one that needs to be rectified going forward.

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    Colorado, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oregon and Utah State are ranked right now. Presumably these teams will be good next year too. If Gonzaga actually wanted to schedule a more challenging schedule (with more travel), would it really be that difficult to have an assistant set up a call between ADs and/or coaches for next week, have the conference call, say some nice things about each other's programs, make a joke about the assistant for (insert team) drinking too much at last year's final four coaches' meeting (or ask about golf or the weather or something) and then eventually see if the team wants to play some games? After that call it seems like they'd just need to email some dates back and forth, tentatively agree on the Fall/Winter 2020 game date, then lock the games in at some point in the spring...

    Am I completely dumbing this process down? I think this is pretty much how it would go down if Gonzaga wanted better games.

    Edit: I guess they'd probably have to copy ESPN to the emails, or something. But I think generally speaking they could lock in a deal with any of those teams then let ESPN know and get the specific date and time figured out...

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    Colorado, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oregon and Utah State are ranked right now. Presumably these teams will be good next year too. If Gonzaga actually wanted to schedule a more challenging schedule (with more travel), would it really be that difficult to have an assistant set up a call between ADs and/or coaches for next week, have the conference call, say some nice things about each other's programs, make a joke about the assistant for (insert team) drinking too much at last year's final four coaches' meeting (or ask about golf or the weather or something) and then eventually see if the team wants to play some games? After that call it seems like they'd just need to email some dates back and forth, tentatively agree on the Fall/Winter 2020 game date, then lock the games in at some point in the spring...

    Am I completely dumbing this process down? I think this is pretty much how it would go down if Gonzaga wanted better games.
    CB, the job is yours. You clearly have a gift for the work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    CB, the job is yours. You clearly have a gift for the work.
    I can even do more complex four-way deals. Hey Texas Tech/Baylor, how about we'll come down there and play you both on a Thursday/Saturday and, if you want, I can bring along my redheaded stepchild Saint Mary's or my adopted son from BYU and they can play you on the other day? What do you say? Saint Mary's birth dad, Randy, is a little prickly, but he's all right. Sorry about their house.And we're sorry but our son BYU doesn't play on Sundays, but their house is beautiful! But for the return game, whaddasay say you stop by SLC or San Francisco and play one of these little guys before/after your game in the Kennel against us?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    I can even do more complex four-way deals. Hey Texas Tech/Baylor, how about we'll come down there and play you both on a Thursday/Saturday and, if you want, I can bring along my redheaded stepchild Saint Mary's or my adopted son from BYU and they can play you on the other day? What do you say? Saint Mary's birth dad, Randy, is a little prickly, but he's all right. Sorry about their house.And we're sorry but our son BYU doesn't play on Sundays, but their house is beautiful! But for the return game, whaddasay say you stop by SLC or San Francisco and play one of these little guys before/after your game in the Kennel against us?
    Now you’re showing off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I don't care for home games that are over in the first 5 minutes....personally I would rather see them lose to a good team than win games by 50 points.....or at least play local cupcakes....
    This.

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    SMDH... And we wonder why a lot of people stopped posting here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    End of the day I count about 8, maybe 10, meaningful, competitive games this season. That’s a paltry number for such a spectacular program. IMO, that’s a major disconnect, one that needs to be rectified going forward.
    Like it or not there is a method to their madness and their scheduling is one of the reasons they are consistently getting higher seeds than they ever have.

    Gonzaga as a program gets the benefit of the doubt these days. The program has arrived and has that brand name recognition come seeding time, especially with the weakened West of late.

    So the formula appears to be go to the most prestigious tourney every season (a virtual lock for them by not being in a power conference), schedule 4-6 other good to great OOC games depending on seasonal strength and fill the rest with cupcakes that you utterly smash and don't hurt you on the advanced analytics side. (instead of risking an upset ala UK/SMC/Pitt against a 75-150 team that you might stumble on early)

    You may not like it but there is a tremendous amount of logic in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OntZags View Post
    Like it or not there is a method to their madness and their scheduling is one of the reasons they are consistently getting higher seeds than they ever have.

    Gonzaga as a program gets the benefit of the doubt these days. The program has arrived and has that brand name recognition come seeding time, especially with the weakened West of late.

    So the formula appears to be go to the most prestigious tourney every season (a virtual lock for them by not being in a power conference), schedule 4-6 other good to great OOC games depending on seasonal strength and fill the rest with cupcakes that you utterly smash and don't hurt you on the advanced analytics side. (instead of risking an upset ala UK/SMC/Pitt against a 75-150 team that you might stumble on early)

    You may not like it but there is a tremendous amount of logic in it.
    If the goal is to get the highest seed every year then you're likely 100 percent correct.

    I think about, with scheduling, things like TV exposure, providing real value to season ticket holders, being able to sell 5 star west coast recruits on why they should choose Gonzaga over USC, as an example, based on what could be characterized as an "inverted P5 schedule" if Gonzaga truly stacked the nonconference season with decent games. I would think that if Gonzaga did everything to mitigate against the real perception that Gonzaga doesn't play a P5 schedule, they'd get better recruits. Yes I know Suggs might join the program and there are the internationals. Suggs is the exception, the internationals are due to good old fashion hard work of the coaching staff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    SMDH... And we wonder why a lot of people stopped posting here.
    ????

    Sincere question. Why would anyone be annoyed with this conversation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    ????

    Sincere question. Why would anyone be annoyed with this conversation?
    Anti-establishment banter from peasant dissidents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB4 View Post
    Anti-establishment banter from peasant dissidents.
    Well, it's definitely more interesting than the article posted. I was looking for the guy from "MY PILLOW" there was so much fluff in that thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    Well, it's definitely more interesting than the article posted. I was looking for the guy from "MY PILLOW" there was so much fluff in that thing.
    Yeah. The interesting thing is scheduling philosophy. There are infinite roads to the promise land. Reasonable minds can differ. The conversation, in my opinion, is interesting.

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