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Thread: Gonzaga vs North Dakota Post game analysis and your insights

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooter73 View Post
    Totally agree here too. I have never been a huge fan of grad transfers although Matthews and to an extent Wesley backed me down a little but the hype that comes with them, everyone thinking they are experienced polished super dynamic players... which they are over some 150 ranked raw freshmen, but the grad trasfer also comes in with not necessarily bad habits, just not GU based habits. We are in a very high level system here and expectations are probably too high but you just dont get that feeling of a the day is saved payoff.
    I think we need to give it some time before we judge our current 2 grad transfers for several reasons. Primarily both are coming off injuries and are just now rounding into basketball shape. Regarding Gilder specifically, he literally has not played in a real competitive basketball game in a full year and he had an injury that jeopardized his career (from what I understand). What I do know is that Gilder was expected to be one of the top 2 way players in the SEC before injury last season and he was coming off a season in which he averaged 12 points and shot 40% from 3 and 80% from the ft line on a very good team. Gilder is a terrific player and I expect he will be just that as he again acclimates to the game and particularly our system. Also, I actually love that our two senior grad transfers are giving deference to the post guys. Ryan and Admon have not come out trying to prove anything but rather they are playing within the system. Most grad transfers (example Derryk Thornton) transfer to a school where they can "be the man" and showcase their skills. It appears to me that Ryan and Admon are very happy to be winning even if they are not the focal point. So, let's give these guys some time.
    Also, keep in mind just how much of a struggle this season might be if we did not have them as 1 year fill-ins right now. For that, i am very thankful that they are here and I do expect that their defense will dramatically improve as they get healthier.
    Just my 2 cents!

  2. #27
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    Default Thank you, North Dakota for making the Trip! Best Wishes in your League!

    We beat North Dakota like a stick. In fact, we've beaten all our opponents like a stick, so far. We need some tougher competition. Texas A&M will be an upgrade -- first, its far, far away; second, better overall talent; third, their crowd is gonna be loud & rockin'. Hope the Zags don't pull a Kentucky. (Hope the crowd is accepting of Admon's school-switch.)




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    Yeah, we're "The Champs," uh-huh!

  3. #28
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    When did shooting three and four footers (and layups) become a bad thing ? If the offense can get that deep in the paint time after time, why complain ?

  4. #29
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    Watson and Petrušev can shoot the three. Perhaps they need permission. Coach may be focused on the inside money game for the time being.
    Parlez-vous français?

  5. #30
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    Guard play didn’t need to be spectacular last game, and it wasn’t. I think the staff had very specific goals in mind with this game, given the look of the offense. (Hardly any dribble penetration, but lots of feeding the post).

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantua View Post
    Watson and Petrušev can shoot the three. Perhaps they need permission. Coach may be focused on the inside money game for the time being.
    Not located in Washington made it almost impossible to watch Watson play in high school. To this point in the season Filip and Watson are goose eggs from 3-land...Filip shot just over 30% from 3-land so maybe they aren't solid 3-pt shooters...time will tell but Watson has been so open from behind the arc and passes off...

  7. #32
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    For a variety of reasons the grad transfer rule is a huge advantage for Gonzaga.... in particular.....without them this year I doubt Gonzaga could make the NCAA Tournament...nor would they have had the success they have had in the past...

  8. #33
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    I saw a totally different game than the OP.

    The defense, while not the spectacular variety of last year, was solid. The only glaring missed assignment was Timme leaving a live ball handler after a pick. They only gave up 66 points on 35% shooting. The Stewart kid from ND had 15 points in the first half because somebody had to score. He went one on one most of the time while the rest of the defense was focused on controlling the paint. Adjustments were made (Different switching schemes) in the second half and Stewart was pretty much shut down.

    Not sure where the clumsy assessment comes in with Timme. It's actually his footwork that allows him to get his shot off virtually uncontested, hence 8-10.

    The guards on offense did their jobs. They broke down defenses with drives to the basket even when they missed the shot. Second chance points resulted which will be a big part of the Zags offense this season. Gilder and Woolridge both rebounded well combining for 12 boards. In addition to their 7 assists they had several "hockey" assists and generally ran the offense with an emphasis on pounding it inside. Combine that with another solid outing by Ayayi and the guard play was very good.

    I like layups. High percentage shots are nothing to get tired of.

    They aren't there yet, but they are starting to figure out their teammates tendencies.

    Looking forward to Friday. Improving every day.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoZag View Post
    When did shooting three and four footers (and layups) become a bad thing ? If the offense can get that deep in the paint time after time, why complain ?
    It seems to work better for international play or lower level competition (talking about layups). When we start playing North Carolina and UW etc if we dont get in the mindset of going up strong regardless it will become muscle memory. I do get what your saying though, layups are obviously a part of the game. There are many cases imo where we need to make the sure we score the basket and go up aggressive.
    America's Team!

  10. #35
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    In the OP Reborn states he wonders whether anyone can hit a mid-range jumper. I think there are 30 something NBA GMs that are thinking the same thing.

    Mid-range game is gone, it seems like. With kids hitting balls from deeper and deeper, even with the 3-line moved back, it seems that if one is going to cross that 3 pt line, might as well go as far as you can, to the rim, and then maybe pass out to a buddy either cutting or standing outside on the 3 line.

    Kispert did hit one at the FT line coming around a pick that I remember, but there isn't a ton of that going on nowadays. It's one of the things that made Rui so rich. I don't remember a kid as good as him at the mid-range shot in a long time.

    Actually, Timmie has a bit of a similar streak, come to think of it, he isn't right at the rim. often. He has a little push shot that is effective.

    Best not to take too much from a game won by 35-50, either way.

    Univ. No Dakota was an increase in talent. Not to disparage those poorer southern schools, but UND had more strength and better skills.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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  11. #36

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    Short version: This team is very relaxed and focused. Not a highlight reel or showboating team, but one that, as it matures, will be able to methodically pick apart their opponents in greater and greater degrees - but still with athleticism to back up that intention.

    This feels like a VERY Mark Few team.
    History has its eyes on you.

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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Once and Future Zag View Post
    Short version: This team is very relaxed and focused. Not a highlight reel or showboating team, but one that, as it matures, will be able to methodically pick apart their opponents in greater and greater degrees - but still with athleticism to back up that intention.

    This feels like a VERY Mark Few team.
    I like your way of thinking...

    Go!! Zags!!!
    "Learn from the past, Plan for the future, Live in the Now!"

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagBlue View Post
    I think we need to give it some time before we judge our current 2 grad transfers for several reasons. Primarily both are coming off injuries and are just now rounding into basketball shape. Regarding Gilder specifically, he literally has not played in a real competitive basketball game in a full year and he had an injury that jeopardized his career (from what I understand). What I do know is that Gilder was expected to be one of the top 2 way players in the SEC before injury last season and he was coming off a season in which he averaged 12 points and shot 40% from 3 and 80% from the ft line on a very good team. Gilder is a terrific player and I expect he will be just that as he again acclimates to the game and particularly our system. Also, I actually love that our two senior grad transfers are giving deference to the post guys. Ryan and Admon have not come out trying to prove anything but rather they are playing within the system. Most grad transfers (example Derryk Thornton) transfer to a school where they can "be the man" and showcase their skills. It appears to me that Ryan and Admon are very happy to be winning even if they are not the focal point. So, let's give these guys some time.
    Also, keep in mind just how much of a struggle this season might be if we did not have them as 1 year fill-ins right now. For that, i am very thankful that they are here and I do expect that their defense will dramatically improve as they get healthier.
    Just my 2 cents!
    Well said, Blue. For the most part these guys don’t turn the hall over and they play with composure. I’m so relieved we found some ball handlers in the grad transfer market. And it’s not like we’re looking at the end product here. It’s three games into the season and they’re still familiarizing with their teammates and GU’s system. I’m absolutely thrilled their progress with respect to how early we are in the season.

    The next game will be fun to duel a team that could give us a challenge. I thought maybe North Dakota could play better defense than the other teams we’ve seen but they didn’t look much better. I think the Zags will be ready.
    It's peanut butter jelly time!

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    I saw a totally different game than the OP.

    The defense, while not the spectacular variety of last year, was solid. The only glaring missed assignment was Timme leaving a live ball handler after a pick. They only gave up 66 points on 35% shooting. The Stewart kid from ND had 15 points in the first half because somebody had to score. He went one on one most of the time while the rest of the defense was focused on controlling the paint. Adjustments were made (Different switching schemes) in the second half and Stewart was pretty much shut down.

    Not sure where the clumsy assessment comes in with Timme. It's actually his footwork that allows him to get his shot off virtually uncontested, hence 8-10.

    The guards on offense did their jobs. They broke down defenses with drives to the basket even when they missed the shot. Second chance points resulted which will be a big part of the Zags offense this season. Gilder and Woolridge both rebounded well combining for 12 boards. In addition to their 7 assists they had several "hockey" assists and generally ran the offense with an emphasis on pounding it inside. Combine that with another solid outing by Ayayi and the guard play was very good.

    I like layups. High percentage shots are nothing to get tired of.

    They aren't there yet, but they are starting to figure out their teammates tendencies.

    Looking forward to Friday. Improving every day.
    Pretty much what I saw. High quality shots from good offense and pretty solid defense for a group that hasn’t played together long. I still don’t understand the point of view that Woolridge doesn’t pass? He leads the team in assists including several spectators offs on drives.

    Solid start to the season, even given the light competition. If Ayayi keeps giving quality minutes and Tille comes back to stretch the floor (We need one more shooter badly) this team is dangerous.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    I like layups. High percentage shots are nothing to get tired of.
    Liked the rest of your post too but this line was my favorite. Thought the very same thing.
    It's peanut butter jelly time!

  16. #41
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    "Not sure where the clumsy assessment comes in with Timme."

    I don't believe anyone said "Clumsy", that's harsh. A tad slow with the feet and hands is quite different than Clumsy. OP's ref was about footwork but again still short of hyperbolic description of Clumsy. I don't think he fell down once..LOL
    To Fish & Game: Keep streams stocked well for Mr. Few!

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizZAG View Post
    "Not sure where the clumsy assessment comes in with Timme."

    I don't believe anyone said "Clumsy", that's harsh. A tad slow with the feet and hands is quite different than Clumsy. OP's ref was about footwork but again still short of hyperbolic description of Clumsy. I don't think he fell down once..LOL
    Of course I didn't say "clumsy." I just don't like it when someone tries to make me look "bad". Timme will improve in the next year or two in his footwork. It's the main thing that GU staff teaches their players. Timme plays with a lot of passion, and at times it speeds up his movement, and that will affect his footwork. IF you do read the OP correctly, I was also trying to say something positive about him. Despite his youthfulness and passion, and inexperience at this level, he is still able to score. Putting the ball in the basket is what it's all about, and if you're a positive person like I am, you would have seen my positive statement about Timme.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Of course I didn't say "clumsy." I just don't like it when someone tries to make me look "bad". Timme will improve in the next year or two in his footwork. It's the main thing that GU staff teaches their players. Timme plays with a lot of passion, and at times it speeds up his movement, and that will affect his footwork. IF you do read the OP correctly, I was also trying to say something positive about him. Despite his youthfulness and passion, and inexperience at this level, he is still able to score. Putting the ball in the basket is what it's all about, and if you're a positive person like I am, you would have seen my positive statement about Timme.
    Exactly
    Further my comparison to a freshman KO is a heck of an endorsement in my view. He's a star in the making, just hasn't blown up quite yet, that's all.
    To Fish & Game: Keep streams stocked well for Mr. Few!

  19. #44
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    I have not seen the game yet (but I know we won). Does anyone have a link to Tuesday's North Dakota game? It's not listed in the "on demand" section of the WCC website, which tells me that there were issues with the video stream.
    UNITED WE ZAG !!

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizZAG View Post
    "Not sure where the clumsy assessment comes in with Timme."

    I don't believe anyone said "Clumsy", that's harsh. A tad slow with the feet and hands is quite different than Clumsy. OP's ref was about footwork but again still short of hyperbolic description of Clumsy. I don't think he fell down once..LOL
    "Timme is pretty clumsy, but dang he somehow finds the basket and gets it in (8-10 shooting)."

    That's a quote from the original post.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Of course I didn't say "clumsy." I just don't like it when someone tries to make me look "bad". Timme will improve in the next year or two in his footwork. It's the main thing that GU staff teaches their players. Timme plays with a lot of passion, and at times it speeds up his movement, and that will affect his footwork. IF you do read the OP correctly, I was also trying to say something positive about him. Despite his youthfulness and passion, and inexperience at this level, he is still able to score. Putting the ball in the basket is what it's all about, and if you're a positive person like I am, you would have seen my positive statement about Timme.
    Check your original post. Here's your quote

    "Timme is pretty clumsy, but dang he somehow finds the basket and gets it in (8-10 shooting)."

  22. #47
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    Timme is kind of a throw back. The broadcast team mentioned Zach Gourd in comparison. I thought of Sean Mallon. He gets the ball in the hoop but it ain’t always pretty. It is actually more frustrating to play defense against a guy like him who takes some shots (seemingly) off balance at times and from weird release points.

  23. #48
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    Default Stats at a glance vs. The Eye Test

    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Well stated Abe


    Look at the stats vs. the "Eye Test" everyone articulates and see what you think.

    Opponent KP Rk Score FG% 3pt% Rbds TO A PIP
    Ala.St 316 GU 95 57.6 50 34 8 24 46
    Op 64 49 56.3 25 21 14 22

    Ark. PB 341 GU 110 62.5 39.1 42 12 22 46
    60 41.1 20 21 17 9 24

    NDU 265 GU 97 57.7 43.8 53 10 17 64
    66 34.7 22.6 29 6 8 22

    Tex A&M 69


    UT Arltn 137


    Cal.St. Bak 224


    So. Miss 223


    There is universal agreement that Zags are a "work in progress". Question is are we making progress.
    From eye test and stats the Opener with Ala St was not too good because of the defense, mistakes and because 1st game.

    Big improvement in second game. After giving up 56.3% 3pt shots in 1st game the next two, GU holds Op to 20 and 22.6% very good.
    So is the defense better or competition still not so good.?

    My biggest concern is most didn't give GU credit that when they played NDU, the opposition was SUBSTANTIALLY, better than 1st 2 games.
    NDU with Crandall and a couple more bigs, the Hawks would have given Zags a better game. Nevertheless we outshot them over 20% from the floor
    and over 20% from 3pt plus out rebounded them by 24. We will meet better competition soon but "come on guys" Zags played pretty well here.

    A & M is likely to be tough on home court but Zags should be Las Vegas favorite by a bunch and Zags hopeful favorite.

    Look at the Assists. We are racking up an average of 21 assists per game to 10 for opposition. That's for the guys who don't think Woolridge can pass.
    Scoring more points in the paint by average 52 to 23, showing our bigs are dominating the paint. Petrusev, Dimme, Watson and Kispert all are crashing the boards,
    not to mention a couple of guards Woolridge and Ayayi.

    The KenPom rankings might not mean too much but gives us clues.

    Look at the WCC GU 7, SMC 38, BYU 78, Pepp 108, SCU 119, USF 132, LMU 167, SDO 172, Pacif 209, Port 243.

    Call me a ####-eyed optimist but when you factor in a Hall of Fame Coach and staff and the "built in family Zag team desire" we will continue to improve.
    Everyone agrees it is a work in progress. So no more "downer Debbies" but recognize these young men want the best result just like GU board members do.

    Oh, did I forget to say our possibly best player isn't even in the mix yet. Tres bien. Killian.


    By the way at 80 years old and trying to relive all my GU memories I still feel some of the "young turks" think all we have to do is toss the ball on the court and we
    win everything. That's not the way it works. Few has spent 21 years building this "monster" so give our freshmen some space and I'm convince they will please
    everyone of us, even Jazz.


  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    Check your original post. Here's your quote

    "Timme is pretty clumsy, but dang he somehow finds the basket and gets it in (8-10 shooting)."
    This is what I find in my OP, "Timme is pretty tough and has the body to be a force on D, but he just doesn't have the footwork at all, or knowledge or instincts."
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    Check your original post. Here's your quote

    "Timme is pretty clumsy, but dang he somehow finds the basket and gets it in (8-10 shooting)."
    I swear I read that as well, but it has mysteriously changed to a comment on footwork.

    And woolridge is a great passer.

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