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Thread: Impressive start in exhibition

  1. #101
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    This may be a bit odd to say for the game but I was actually kinda/sorta impressed with L-C State. For a local team (http://www.lcsc.edu/) they weren't that bad and certainly gave the Zags a go at the beginning and 2-3 more times during the evening. They may be a fun team to keep track of this season to see how they do.

    For the Zags .... boy, was it odd to see all the new faces! Even though I'd seen photos and some videos there were guys who came out to play where I was wondering who the heck they were. This is the first year in quite some time that it took awhile to really feel I was actually watching the Zags. By game's end I felt pretty comfy with the team though. By how Corey played, a bit tentative I thought, I feel it's just because the rest of the team isn't up to speed and not playing sets well, doing things unexpected, etc. As the team gets more and more used to playing together I know Corey is going to shine. Woolridge and Gilder looked really good - glad we have them. Woolridge did seem to have a sensitive leg/knee. He didn't let it slow him down much. Woolridge can really turn on the speed! Gilder was pretty good in the speed department too. Watson, wow, he just really looks comfy on the floor. When he goes to the basket it's like all else fades away and natural basketball instinct takes over. Super glad he's a Zag. He and Killian are going to be VERY hard to control. Joel looked quite good, quick and seems to have found his 'groove' in that he's more spontaneous and accurate than last year. I feel Joel will only improve and turn into an indispensable Zag. I feel good with him starting or coming off the bench. Timme sure doesn't let much deter him from giving it his all and I feel he has a huge upside to improve as the season moves along. Petrusev, to me, played a bit like Kispert in that neither looked very comfy on the floor. As the new Zags begin to settle in, the team meshes overall, and the competition becomes better I expect both Kispert and Petrusev to really shine. Arlauskas played a bit. At first he looked a bit slow and tentative but the kid has some speed. He really started to figure things out pretty well. Zakharov played a bit but by that time I was fading (flu fatigue). Zakharov looked to have some growing into and getting comfy with his 6'-11" frame to do.
    One thing I felt that was a bit odd in this game was the officiating. There were a few fouls not called and it favored the Zags. A few of the TOs the Zags forced on LCSC looked questionable. It's good to see the Zags play D well but I sure hope the team doesn't get slap happy. I certainly do not mind aggressive D when the Zags play a team that needs a dose of its own medicine. However, I'd rather see a team beat another by them being better at offense than via a defensive battle. A lot of the reasons I like basketball is that it is a fluid and graceful sport. When it gets rather heavy on D the injury rate goes up. I like watching basketball not basketbrawl.

    I feel that Zags are going to be a formidable team this season but will have a few growing pains once the competition increases. A top 25 team with experienced players will give the Zags a serious challenge. All the more reason to have Killian on the court. He'll be a key factor this year in extending the season's games.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therunner View Post
    Have a feeling it's our last year with Watson.

    Even if he only averages 6 ppg, the NBA will see his obvious potential.

    6'10", can shoot, play D, pass, has decent to solid handles, play 3 positions as Coach Few said, rebounds well, and plus athleticism.
    Hmmm. Watson the homegrown hometown Pup-to-Bulldog Zag is on a mission to bring GU and Few a Natty. If that does not happen this season, my guess is he sticks around for at least one more shot at the title...w Ballo, Harris, Strawther and hopefully Suggs in the mix. Whatever may happen dude is a Zag for life, but I think he may have that hometown kid brings his hometown team a title storyline in his sights.
    It is their time....their team...I just get to watch. - Bartruff1

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagger View Post
    This may be a bit odd to say for the game but I was actually kinda/sorta impressed with L-C State. For a local team (http://www.lcsc.edu/) they weren't that bad and certainly gave the Zags a go at the beginning and 2-3 more times during the evening. They may be a fun team to keep track of this season to see how they do.

    For the Zags .... boy, was it odd to see all the new faces! Even though I'd seen photos and some videos there were guys who came out to play where I was wondering who the heck they were. This is the first year in quite some time that it took awhile to really feel I was actually watching the Zags. By game's end I felt pretty comfy with the team though. By how Corey played, a bit tentative I thought, I feel it's just because the rest of the team isn't up to speed and not playing sets well, doing things unexpected, etc. As the team gets more and more used to playing together I know Corey is going to shine. Woolridge and Gilder looked really good - glad we have them. Woolridge did seem to have a sensitive leg/knee. He didn't let it slow him down much. Woolridge can really turn on the speed! Gilder was pretty good in the speed department too. Watson, wow, he just really looks comfy on the floor. When he goes to the basket it's like all else fades away and natural basketball instinct takes over. Super glad he's a Zag. He and Killian are going to be VERY hard to control. Joel looked quite good, quick and seems to have found his 'groove' in that he's more spontaneous and accurate than last year. I feel Joel will only improve and turn into an indispensable Zag. I feel good with him starting or coming off the bench. Timme sure doesn't let much deter him from giving it his all and I feel he has a huge upside to improve as the season moves along. Petrusev, to me, played a bit like Kispert in that neither looked very comfy on the floor. As the new Zags begin to settle in, the team meshes overall, and the competition becomes better I expect both Kispert and Petrusev to really shine. Arlauskas played a bit. At first he looked a bit slow and tentative but the kid has some speed. He really started to figure things out pretty well. Zakharov played a bit but by that time I was fading (flu fatigue). Zakharov looked to have some growing into and getting comfy with his 6'-11" frame to do.
    One thing I felt that was a bit odd in this game was the officiating. There were a few fouls not called and it favored the Zags. A few of the TOs the Zags forced on LCSC looked questionable. It's good to see the Zags play D well but I sure hope the team doesn't get slap happy. I certainly do not mind aggressive D when the Zags play a team that needs a dose of its own medicine. However, I'd rather see a team beat another by them being better at offense than via a defensive battle. A lot of the reasons I like basketball is that it is a fluid and graceful sport. When it gets rather heavy on D the injury rate goes up. I like watching basketball not basketbrawl.

    I feel that Zags are going to be a formidable team this season but will have a few growing pains once the competition increases. A top 25 team with experienced players will give the Zags a serious challenge. All the more reason to have Killian on the court. He'll be a key factor this year in extending the season's games.
    Another fine post. LC St showed effort all game, kudos to them. I liked your player analysis also, the newbies are incredible. And Kispert's just fine. His missed shots were just a little off. As for the defense, I think Few was just trying out some things. I don't think we went to a Tex Tech level of slap happiness, but it was fun to watch for me. We obviously can't do that all game long (foul trouble) and I don't think we normally would do that in a blowout. But we need that club in our bag and it sure looks like we have it.
    It's peanut butter jelly time!

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagger View Post
    I feel that Zags are going to be a formidable team this season but will have a few growing pains once the competition increases. A top 25 team with experienced players will give the Zags a serious challenge. All the more reason to have Killian on the court. He'll be a key factor this year in extending the season's games.
    I agree with Notorious. a good post. However, I am curious why you think the Zags might have a tough time with a Top 25 team like Saint Mary's.

    I think what I'm most pleased about is the reporting on Ayayi. I'm so happy about it because I've always liked him, and have always believed his day would come if he could just patient. He was soooooo young when he first came to Gonzaga. I hope Ballo learns from Ayayi about patience.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    I agree with Notorious. a good post. However, I am curious why you think the Zags might have a tough time with a Top 25 team like Saint Mary's.

    I think what I'm most pleased about is the reporting on Ayayi. I'm so happy about it because I've always liked him, and have always believed his day would come if he could just patient. He was soooooo young when he first came to Gonzaga. I hope Ballo learns from Ayayi about patience.

    Go Zags!!!
    I'm don't want to speak for Zagger, but I think top 25 teams are always hard games. Last season against the top 25, with a veteran team with some super talented players, we went 2-3 (based on KP end of season). Even if we add in #31 SMC as a top 25 team, we broke even at 4-4. My personal opinion is that this year's team is going to be behind where a more veteran GU team was last season, so they should have trouble with top 25 teams.

    It'd be great if we could win as many of those matchups as we lose for a group of guys that haven't played together. I'd guess that there aren't many seasons that are exceptions to the "top 25 teams are tough" rule. This decade, with a strict cutoff of teams in KPs top 25 at the end of season:

    2019: 2-3
    2018: 2-2
    2017: 7-1
    2016: 0-3
    2015: 1-2
    2014: 1-1
    2013: 4-1
    2012: 0-2
    2011: 0-4
    2010: 1-3
    Overall: 18-22

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgadfly View Post
    I'm don't want to speak for Zagger, but I think top 25 teams are always hard games. Last season against the top 25, with a veteran team with some super talented players, we went 2-3 (based on KP end of season). Even if we add in #31 SMC as a top 25 team, we broke even at 4-4. My personal opinion is that this year's team is going to be behind where a more veteran GU team was last season, so they should have trouble with top 25 teams.

    It'd be great if we could win as many of those matchups as we lose for a group of guys that haven't played together. I'd guess that there aren't many seasons that are exceptions to the "top 25 teams are tough" rule. This decade, with a strict cutoff of teams in KPs top 25 at the end of season:

    2019: 2-3
    2018: 2-2
    2017: 7-1
    2016: 0-3
    2015: 1-2
    2014: 1-1
    2013: 4-1
    2012: 0-2
    2011: 0-4
    2010: 1-3
    Overall: 18-22
    In ‘17 we really were the best team in the country, right?

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    In ‘17 we really were the best team in the country, right?
    That one loss in the top 25 should have an asterisk next to it in my book. No explanation for the non-top 25 loss to BYU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mgadfly View Post
    That one loss in the top 25 should have an asterisk next to it in my book. No explanation for the non-top 25 loss to BYU.
    With ya.

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    At first I thought Arlauskas was lost but after rewatching the game a number of times he did well, ready to play if called upon.
    If you want to be happy tomorrow, think good thoughts today--Bud Fisher
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    Quote Originally Posted by zag buddy View Post
    At first I thought Arlauskas was lost but after rewatching the game a number of times he did well, ready to play if called upon.
    He looks really solid on d with active hands and good guarding positions. Its tough getting in the game late and not looking rushed. He had a couple dribble drive moments that looked good and agressivly going for rebounds.

    I'm really excited wit all the new faces.
    All in all the team looks really solid and could if healthy make another deep run.


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    I think this year is going to be very interesting with a point guard that takes the ball to the hoop the way Wooly does. To me he really appears to be a guy that relies on his speed and agility to create and score. So unlike Perkins game. Perk could really shoot and pass but didn't have the smooth speed that Woolridge has. NWG could shoot, pass, nice mid range game and finish at the rim with contact.
    The film i've watched i think he will be able to finish throught contact and pass and we can all see the rocket speed and body control but I cant rember a Gonzaga point guard that didnt knock down 3's. Im really interested to see how this team plays offensively with Wooly at the helm. Not worried, just very interested.

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    I think Perk was most concerned about keeping the ball moving. But point noted about Wooly’s burst and glide
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    I agree with Notorious. a good post. However, I am curious why you think the Zags might have a tough time with a Top 25 team like Saint Mary's.
    I should have better qualified that comment - meant more as the team is now. By the time they get to play SMC they more than likely will have meshed enough to smack them pretty good. If the Zags play a top 25 team soon (one with experienced players and good teamwork) I think they’d have a 50/50 chance. I didn’t see a lot of spiffy assists and passing by the Zags (some, not a lot). With Tilley and time that will improve.

    And thanks for the kind words on the post
    The Mrs & I get to go to Tuesday’s game. I’m hoping we get there early enough to watch warmups. I want to watch both Killian and Woolridge regarding how they treat their knees. It’ll be fun to watch how the team reacts during warmups/shoot around too. They can have a bit of fun then so it’s good to see how the react to one another Will share any amusing tidbits.
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    I was most impressed with how athletic Admon and Ryan looked. With both of them we should have our best defensive back court in a long time and I can't remember a more athletic group at the 1 and 2. I was glad to see Joel looking confident with the ball and his stroke looked good. He was a surprise for me, but I am glad he is continuing what he did for France over the summer. I think Petrusev will be our number 1 offensive option all year. I really do not see the reasoning for all of this Kispert hate. For me he is a more in shape Bouldin that is better on defense and not as talented with the ball. He looked really good to me as a third initiator and my only problem for him wasn't really isn't a problem was that he missed shots which happen. I was impressed by Anton and Timme. Anton looked like he could be a good gap filler for this team and I was impressed by Timme's skills. This team has a ton of potential on defense, but I think shooting will be the main issue with this team. Joel looked good offensively, but got massacred on defense. If we make a sweet sixteen I would be happy, but our schedule is going to be more difficult than people realize. LC could definitely beat the bottom half teams of the WCC on their best day, so I do not think we can totally discount how the guys played. Our optimal starting lineup for me is Woolridge Gilder Kispert Tillie Petrusev, with Anton the first guy off the bench at 3-5 and Timme being a good rotation big and Joel getting Geno type minutes. Remember you only need 7 guys in college basketball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagger View Post
    I should have better qualified that comment - meant more as the team is now. By the time they get to play SMC they more than likely will have meshed enough to smack them pretty good. If the Zags play a top 25 team soon (one with experienced players and good teamwork) I think they’d have a 50/50 chance. I didn’t see a lot of spiffy assists and passing by the Zags (some, not a lot). With Tilley and time that will improve.

    And thanks for the kind words on the post
    The Mrs & I get to go to Tuesday’s game. I’m hoping we get there early enough to watch warmups. I want to watch both Killian and Woolridge regarding how they treat their knees. It’ll be fun to watch how the team reacts during warmups/shoot around too. They can have a bit of fun then so it’s good to see how the react to one another Will share any amusing tidbits.
    Mgadfly gave a pretty good analysis of top 25 teams and how tough they are to beat. I agree with him, however my post was more a response to your post which was saying that the Zags inexperience could be a reason to struggle against top 25 teams. And now, with Mgadfly's explanation it certainly makes sense that maybe a top 25 team could expose their inexperience. I am wondering if there are any top 25 teams that we play that have a lot of experience on their team? I know that so many teams this year are reloading, like we are.

    ps I do enjoy reading your posts. You always have good insight and thoughtful things to say, and sometimes ideas that challenge my thinking, which I like. That's why I like Jazz so much. I come from a family which might be like his. There wasn't a good thought or opinion that I ever had that went unchallenged. If my dad wasn't challenging me than it was my brother or sister.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    I was most impressed with how athletic Admon and Ryan looked. With both of them we should have our best defensive back court in a long time and I can't remember a more athletic group at the 1 and 2. I was glad to see Joel looking confident with the ball and his stroke looked good. He was a surprise for me, but I am glad he is continuing what he did for France over the summer. I think Petrusev will be our number 1 offensive option all year. I really do not see the reasoning for all of this Kispert hate. For me he is a more in shape Bouldin that is better on defense and not as talented with the ball. He looked really good to me as a third initiator and my only problem for him wasn't really isn't a problem was that he missed shots which happen. I was impressed by Anton and Timme. Anton looked like he could be a good gap filler for this team and I was impressed by Timme's skills. This team has a ton of potential on defense, but I think shooting will be the main issue with this team. Joel looked good offensively, but got massacred on defense. If we make a sweet sixteen I would be happy, but our schedule is going to be more difficult than people realize. LC could definitely beat the bottom half teams of the WCC on their best day, so I do not think we can totally discount how the guys played. Our optimal starting lineup for me is Woolridge Gilder Kispert Tillie Petrusev, with Anton the first guy off the bench at 3-5 and Timme being a good rotation big and Joel getting Geno type minutes. Remember you only need 7 guys in college basketball.
    Great post with lots of good ideas. You seem to know your basketball stuff pretty well. I'm glad you're a part of this Forum. I even checked with my fav Board Mod and he said you know your stuff and that you're for REAL. I really like that. We have some fantastic women Zag fans on this forum and I appreciate your perspectives on the game. Sorry it took so long to welcome you, But Welcome!!!

    I didn't get a chance to see the game on TV, and all these awesome posts have made me really, really excited to SEE the team play.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    I really like Watson at the point of attack in the press. I know it was against lesser competition, but Watson has a package of skill/size/athleticism that is unique to this unit. The announcers started to get into the Rui vs Watson comparison athletically and I don't want to go there, but with the small sample size it looks to me like Watson has better instincts on defense and more active hands already as a freshman. I think this has to do with playing ball in America with coaches like John Stockton in AAU (that was a tidbit I didn't know before the broadcast). I am very excited for him. I think that someone made an apt comparison in this thread to Thybule, whom I coveted every time I saw him play. I don't think he starts with a healthy Tillie, but I think he has to get significant minutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    I really like Watson at the point of attack in the press. I know it was against lesser competition, but Watson has a package of skill/size/athleticism that is unique to this unit. The announcers started to get into the Rui vs Watson comparison athletically and I don't want to go there, but with the small sample size it looks to me like Watson has better instincts on defense and more active hands already as a freshman. I think this has to do with playing ball in America with coaches like John Stockton in AAU (that was a tidbit I didn't know before the broadcast). I am very excited for him. I think that someone made an apt comparison in this thread to Thybule, whom I coveted every time I saw him play. I don't think he starts with a healthy Tillie, but I think he has to get significant minutes.
    Too early to tell if Anton's as good at finishing coast-to-coast as Rui was...

    Rui had excellent handles for 6'8", 235lbs, he should have utilized even more than he already did at GU, which he's also shown in the NBA.

    Having said that, Watson is already 10-times the passer/vision Rui was...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    I really like Watson at the point of attack in the press. ... I think that someone made an apt comparison in this thread to Thybule, whom I coveted every time I saw him play....
    I remember BYU using the 1-2-2 press against us with much success with Kyle Collinsworth at the top. He was 6-6 with long arms. I think Few see AW in that same role. Thybule played that 2-3 matchup syracuse zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    I really like Watson at the point of attack in the press. I know it was against lesser competition, but Watson has a package of skill/size/athleticism that is unique to this unit. The announcers started to get into the Rui vs Watson comparison athletically and I don't want to go there, but with the small sample size it looks to me like Watson has better instincts on defense and more active hands already as a freshman. I think this has to do with playing ball in America with coaches like John Stockton in AAU (that was a tidbit I didn't know before the broadcast). I am very excited for him. I think that someone made an apt comparison in this thread to Thybule, whom I coveted every time I saw him play. I don't think he starts with a healthy Tillie, but I think he has to get significant minutes.
    I was thinking the same thing when they were doing the Rui/Watson comparison. I don't think Watson is a better athlete but his instincts and feel for the game are far beyond where Rui was. He probably has played a lot more basketball at this point in his life. The only spot where I thought he looked uncomfortable was when he got the ball on the block. If he can develop a post game he can really create some mismatches, especially if hes playing the 3. Other than that he exceeded my expectations. I dont think hes going to start when Tillie comes back, but he'll probably be first off the bench.

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    Great comments. Looking forward to super year with many ups and downs, but will be ready in March. No major injuries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyZag View Post
    I remember BYU using the 1-2-2 press against us with much success with Kyle Collinsworth at the top. He was 6-6 with long arms. I think Few see AW in that same role. Thybule played that 2-3 matchup syracuse zone.
    The way UW played their zone, Thybule attacked a lot of balls at the top of that zone. It wasn't passive at all and got some of the results of a 1-3-1 zone with the disruption and turnovers they got out of it.

    I had forgotten about that BYU press. Maybe I shut it out of my memory Collinsworth was one of the best (maybe top 10, I haven't made a list in my head) non-GU players in the WCC in the past 10 years, in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    The way UW played their zone, Thybule attacked a lot of balls at the top of that zone. It wasn't passive at all and got some of the results of a 1-3-1 zone with the disruption and turnovers they got out of it.

    I had forgotten about that BYU press. Maybe I shut it out of my memory Collinsworth was one of the best (maybe top 10, I haven't made a list in my head) non-GU players in the WCC in the past 10 years, in my opinion.
    I know this is off topic, but I'm wondering if anyone is aware of a modern day team that runs a passive zone?

    A couple months back I was looking through all the video and stats I could find on teams that play zone these days, and I can't find anyone running what GU did in 2006 or what I remember from playing in the 80s and early 90s. It looks to me like there are a couple of versions of zone, but any team that is running it a significant amount is running a disruptive extended zone of some sort. The trade off being more blocks and steals in exchange for giving up way more offensive rebounds and a higher field goal percentage. There might be an argument to be made that the zone also reduces fouls and gives up more three pointers (even extended active zones). I read an article and then watched an interview where Boeheim talked about wanting the other team to take three pointers because the long rebounds were fast break opportunities. But Hopkins defenses with Thybule did a good job of discouraging three point attempts.

    But if someone knows of a zone defense team (not a change of pace zone or a protect our star player from getting a foul if he picks up too many in man to man zone) that really packs it in, I'd love to watch them this season. To me there is extended pressure man-to-man, extended/active zone, and pack-line (Virginia etc...) defenses being played. Think Duke (M2M), Virginia (Pack-line), Syracuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mgadfly View Post
    I know this is off topic, but I'm wondering if anyone is aware of a modern day team that runs a passive zone?

    A couple months back I was looking through all the video and stats I could find on teams that play zone these days, and I can't find anyone running what GU did in 2006 or what I remember from playing in the 80s and early 90s. It looks to me like there are a couple of versions of zone, but any team that is running it a significant amount is running a disruptive extended zone of some sort. The trade off being more blocks and steals in exchange for giving up way more offensive rebounds and a higher field goal percentage. There might be an argument to be made that the zone also reduces fouls and gives up more three pointers (even extended active zones). I read an article and then watched an interview where Boeheim talked about wanting the other team to take three pointers because the long rebounds were fast break opportunities. But Hopkins defenses with Thybule did a good job of discouraging three point attempts.

    But if someone knows of a zone defense team (not a change of pace zone or a protect our star player from getting a foul if he picks up too many in man to man zone) that really packs it in, I'd love to watch them this season. To me there is extended pressure man-to-man, extended/active zone, and pack-line (Virginia etc...) defenses being played. Think Duke (M2M), Virginia (Pack-line), Syracuse.
    Might it relate to the fact that it seems like the modern game has kids that can drain 3s from near any distance if left well enough alone? One has to be attacking and keeping people off balance?
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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    I'm betting that's it too. A lot of great shooters out there plus coaches who have gone to a three or dunk style of play and trying to exploit that three point line as much as possible. But I was just wondering if someone on here that watches a lot of hoops is aware of an old style zone still hanging around somewhere. It seems like a bad idea to pack it in and let a team shoot, but maybe someone is having a little success with it still.

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