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Thread: CA becomes first state to let college athletes make money, defying NCAA

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdawg View Post
    Florida Rep Proposes Bill Compensating College Athletes for Names, Likeness

    https://amp.si.com/college-football/...mpression=true
    A group of Colorado Legislators are sponsoring similar legislation. 5 years from now I predict most states will have similar laws. NCAA as we know it is done.

    What will likely happen is that there will be two tiers for "college sports" One tier that opts into the NCAA with athletes having limits on their income and being students at the University and another tier where the athletes are employees of the school, get a salary/endorsements, and are not students. Basically a University sponsored professional team that isnt a member of the NCAA and has their own governing body. The schools with huge budgets and booster bases in both football and basketball would likely be in the top tier with every one else in the bottom tier.

    Not sure where Zags would end up, but my guess is that they would be able to build a bigger arena and fund being in the professional tier

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    Jeff Goodman
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    Minnesota’s Richard Pitino comes out in favor of the California pay for play bill: “I think it’s a good idea. The more we can get these guys, I’m all for it.”

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    Jeff Goodman
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    Tom Izzo on the California law: “I sure as hell don’t think its politicians job to get involved in it. I’m baffled by that.”

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    Tom apparently has no idea of what a democracy/republic is..... or how the Constitution is intended to protect individuals rights...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    Tom apparently has no idea of what a democracy/republic is..... or how the Constitution is intended to protect individuals rights...
    Pitino obviously doesn't understand how a group like the NCAA, who make an effort to have a level playing field for ALL the teams that have agreed to abide by their rules and regulations, should operate w/o amateurs becoming paid.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Any attempt to "create" equal results is a fools errand....people conflate opportunity with results...Alabama and Northwestern are playing on the same level field but having different results.......the big dogs will always eat....

    I can imagine a day when a group of Universities will create a league and write their own rules …..get a TV contract for a decade or more...and warn the NCAA to not hit their butt on the way out the door...

    " Times they are a changing "...…..

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    Any attempt to "create" equal results is a fools errand....people conflate opportunity with results...Alabama and Northwestern are playing on the same level field but having different results.......the big dogs will always eat....

    I can imagine a day when a group of Universities will create a league and write their own rules …..get a TV contract for a decade or more...and warn the NCAA to not hit their butt on the way out the door...

    " Times they are a changing "...…..
    Any attempt to make this political SHOULD be a fools errand. Otherwise, just dissolve all college athletics and let them compete wherever and however they can. Until that happens, there needs to be a single body to make as level a playing ground as possible.

    I agree that currently Alabama and Clemson are the top dogs in football. It was that way before too, and will go back to other teams being the top ones, once again. Perhaps better enforcement of the rules would help, and, just when that seems to be starting, why abandon those rules?

    What happens if Kansas or Arizona get the 'death penalty', and in 3 years what they were penalized for becomes legal?

    Making the NCAA athletes professionals is NOT the way to go.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    Tom apparently has no idea of what a democracy/republic is..... or how the Constitution is intended to protect individuals rights...
    They do, according to your interpretation of the Constitution, have the right to get paid.

    They DON"T have the right to get paid and play in the NCAA under the current NCAA rules.

    Nobody is making them go to college. If you have a problem with the NBA or the NFL, take it up with them. If you have a problem with the schools making money from using athletes likenesses or names, ban that. Don't destroy the NCAA to benefit a select few of the select few.

    This would not help 99% of college athletes.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    As much as I enjoy college athletics, my actual viewpoint is that I would like to see

    1) ALL high school graduates and/or drop outs have to serve 2 years, in some capacity, in support of our country with no exceptions. If you want to be a citizen in the USA, you should have to support her. You would go through basic and become somewhat physically fit. You would have your medical and dental brought up to snuff and you would have some psychiatric evaluations to ensure that you are gfit to proceed. If not, health would be available, and required if you want to be a member of society. Pretty radical for a liberal, eh?

    2) Do away with 4 year schools. The first 2 years should be done at a community college. There could be teams there that competed, just as there are now. More students should be channelled towards vocational schools and jobs that we actually need rather than degrees that may, or may not, provide a livelihood upon completion.

    I would like to see colleges and Universities scaled back in size, scope and financing. I would like to see Governors be the highest paid position for any state employee or elected official.

    There are more as well, but that is what I would like to see rather than paying a small percentage of college athletes.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    I will leave the lawyering to the lawyers …… but I can design a pavement if you need one....

    IMHO California will win on the law....but....we shall see..

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    Any attempt to "create" equal results is a fools errand......
    Yet every professional sports league attempts to do exactly that with salary caps (hard and soft), free agency (restricted & unrestricted), contracts (guaranteed & non-guaranteed) and so on.

    The professional sports leagues have long realized that without some sort of method(s) to even the playing field between small market teams and large market teams, smaller pocket billionaires and deep pocket billionaires, the product they put on the field will suffer. If the product suffers, it will eventually affect the bottom line where both the owners and players will suffer (as much as billionaires and millionaires can suffer).

    Despite the pleas from several posters on this board, this bill is not about the 10,000s of tennis players, golfers, rowers, etc. that could (in theory) make a thousand dollars making an appearance at a camp or some other function. If that was the case, this legislation would never have have seen the light of day. This is legislation is entirely about the top 1% of the players in Football, Mbb, and the rare Wbb (yes Sabrina we see you) that could make 10,000s, 100,000s or millions of dollars on selling their name, likeness or image.

    The question is how will this type of legislation (which on the surface benefits all student athletes) affect the overall product.

    I personally see the schools with deep pocket donors dictating where the prize recruits go to school. Come to Duke, Big Whip Chevrolet will pay you 100,000 dollars to put your picture on a billboard advertising his cars and so on. Brian Bosworth all over again but now it is legal.

    While the NCAA certainly has its issues, the truth of the matter is that NCAAf and NCAAM put a pretty darn good product out on the field/court. March madness is a great event that lasts for more than a month. Millions of fans glued to their TVs, in the bars, at the games, etc.

    IMO, this type of legislation, while giving more power to the students, in reality will only significantly benefit (meaning 10,000s of dollars) the top 1% of student athletes will, IMO, significantly impact amateur athletics and negatively impact the product on the field/court.

    Something that benefits the few while negatively impacting the many is not something to support. I hope I am wrong and cooler heads will prevail, but I don't see this as a positive step for collegiate athletics.

    ZagDad

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    And every professional league fails to create equality....a fools errand...a very small number of teams win the great majority of games/titles ….

    It is getting to be even more obvious that the stars can go where ever they want to go....and the league can't do a damn thing about it.. as it should be imho of course...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I will leave the lawyering to the lawyers …… but I can design a pavement if you need one....

    IMHO California will win on the law....but....we shall see..
    Which LAW will win? The one the state of California passed or the Contract law that all the schools in the NCAA agreed to when they joined or recomitted.

    If any schools don't want to abide by the contract they agreed to, they can drop out, just as any student athlete that wants more than room, board, tiution and a stipend, can go peddle their wares where they will get paid.

    I like college sports too much to see it destroyed this way.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  14. #39
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    " The one the state of California passed "..... and that college sports will not be destroyed... but....that is just a opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    Which LAW will win? The one the state of California passed or the Contract law that all the schools in the NCAA agreed to when they joined or recomitted.

    If any schools don't want to abide by the contract they agreed to, they can drop out, just as any student athlete that wants more than room, board, tiution and a stipend, can go peddle their wares where they will get paid.

    I like college sports too much to see it destroyed this way.
    Athletic aid agreements simply call for scholarship receipients to report any outside aid or income they receive and state that the athlete's scholarship may be adjusted (reduced or cancelled) based on this. So if athletes report their income and have their scholarships accordingly adjusted, all is on the up and up.

    This means that athletes with increased ability to earn money will have increased responsibility to pay for their education. Athletes who do not have means or ability to earn money have greater access to full scholarships.

    That is the same way many scholarships work now.

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    I would hate to see a handful of prestige schools with deep pocket donors dominate in recruiting. Oh wait ... isn't that exactly what already happens?
    Agent provocateur

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    This literally won't change anything other than future pro athletes getting paid a little bit more earlier in their careers. NCAA is just a giant cartel that pretends to be a nonprofit, but just rakes in cash for its executives. Similar to many non profit hospitals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    This literally won't change anything other than future pro athletes getting paid a little bit more earlier in their careers. NCAA is just a giant cartel that pretends to be a nonprofit, but just rakes in cash for its executives. Similar to many non profit hospitals.
    Another misconception.

    Here is a link that shows how much money the NCAA brings in and how much it gives back to it's member institutions. It returns about 96% to its member institutions. This number has been looked at by a number of investigative reporters, including ESPN, and it has not been disproved. However, even if it returned 92% or even 88% to its member institutions it would be far more non-profit that the vast majority of non-profit, charitable organizations in the U.S.

    The NCAA can and frequently does shoot itself in the foot and frequently does itself more harm than good. It certainly does not need misconceptions and inaccurate information provided to forward a cause. In this case, Google is your friend.

    Link: http://www.ncaa.org/about/where-does-money-go

    ZagDad

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    Default Mark Few: " It was a big publicity stunt. . ."

    Reporting from the WCC Media Day, via Jeff Call at the Deseret News:

    “I think it was a big publicity stunt by the governor. It will affect .00001 percent of his constituents. He probably needs to spend his time elsewhere,” said Few, who has led the Zags to five consecutive NCAA Sweet 16 appearances. “We have some people in our sport that (have) been working on this and come with a much better, well-thought out plan that will address this issue as best we can. We’re the ones involved in the sport. The student-athletes and administrators and coaches should be the ones working on this. We really don’t need help from grandstanding politicians. We need them to help us expedite things as much as they need our help solving their homelessness problem and border problems and things like that.”


    ARTICLE LINK: https://www.deseret.com/2019/10/4/20...college-sports

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    We have some people in our sport that (have) been working on this and come with a much better, well-thought out plan that will address this issue as best we can.
    I would love to know the details of this well-thought out plan.
    Agent provocateur

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    https://apnews.com/1388b5ecf9024168912eaed09084408a

    The NCAA earlier this year formed a working group, led by Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith and Big East Commissioner Val Ackerman, to come up with a way that athletes could be compensated for their names, images and likenesses.

    “You now see probably what in physics would be the most delayed reaction to an action,” Hausfeld said.

    Ackerman and Smith’s group is scheduled to present a report later this month to the university presidents that make up the NCAA’s Board of Governors.

    “You always want to be more proactive on any of these issues,” NCAA President Mark Emmert told the Indianapolis Star last week. “Do I wish it had been started 10 years ago? Sure, but the fact is we were not in a place where we could do it.”

    It is important to point out the NCAA is the schools. The rules are made and passed by school administrators and university presidents. Emmert does not have power to enact policy and there is not a cabal of bureaucrats in Indianapolis pulling the strings. The one time Emmert did try to get out in front of something was in 2011, when he pushed for a $2,000 a year cost-of-attendance stipend for athletes. Membership rebelled. Wilken later ruled the NCAA could not prohibit cost-of-attendance stipends, and now most schools are paying more than they would have under Emmert’s plan.

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    https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...ts-about-new-/
    Should athletes be allowed to profit on their (name and likeness)?

    Few believes so. Has for a long time. (That’s something I can attest to thanks to personal conversations we’ve had over the past few years.) And he thinks the NCAA should move toward that goal.
    Problem is, the NCAA wouldn’t have moved forward, or at least move forward with anything resembling speed, if politicians and the media weren’t involved.

    The funny part of this most recent tea-cup tempest is, at his core, Few believes players deserve to be able to profit off their image and likeness. He mentioned to Goodman how much money Rui Hachimura would have made last year if it had been possible. Left unsaid, but probably true, is Gonzaga basketball players would be in high demand among Spokane-area businesses if the NCAA ever moves toward anything akin to the “Fair Pay to Play Act.” Former Zags still have a marketability, so why wouldn’t the current ones? Such a form of community involvement should help Few’s future recruiting immensely.

    It’s too bad the basic aspect of his message, that this is a change the NCAA needs to make (and will eventually), will be lost in the flotsam of his comments about Newsom, homelessness, immigration and the state’s budget. Oh, and the “probably stay in his lane” sound bites.
    Agent provocateur

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    SSF's P. Woodburn weighs in with an Op-Ed here:

    https://www.slipperstillfits.com/201...QzQkpwbaw-YGA0

    The issue here is that it is all in the delivery, and Few needs to know that quick sound-bites are what is going to give a story traction in the day and age of social media. So based off Stadium’s tweet above, you would be pretty well off to assume that the Gonzaga Bulldogs head coach does not agree in paying NCAA players anything.

    However, if you are one of the probably 0.00001 percent of individuals who watched the entire three minute long interview, what Mark Few actually believes about the substance of the situation is completely buried:

    “If there was a way we could monetize likeness and regulate it in a way that keeps a fair playing field for everybody, I’m all for it. If you are selling Adam Morrison jersey, of the two guys who probably could’ve made money last year, I would’ve been all for it, I am all for it. I’m not all for grandstanding politicians coming in and media members pulling low hanging fruit off.”
    So it goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    Another misconception.

    Here is a link that shows how much money the NCAA brings in and how much it gives back to it's member institutions. It returns about 96% to its member institutions. This number has been looked at by a number of investigative reporters, including ESPN, and it has not been disproved. However, even if it returned 92% or even 88% to its member institutions it would be far more non-profit that the vast majority of non-profit, charitable organizations in the U.S.

    The NCAA can and frequently does shoot itself in the foot and frequently does itself more harm than good. It certainly does not need misconceptions and inaccurate information provided to forward a cause. In this case, Google is your friend.

    Link: http://www.ncaa.org/about/where-does-money-go

    ZagDad
    The NCAA is an organization that has members, aka universities. All of these universities are non profit, yet make an amazing amount of money off of these top sports for power 5 programs and some other programs. Top basketball programs consistently make over 14 million in revenue and 5 million in profit. The players are stuck at a fixed labor price.

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    From Myron Medcalf, via twitter:

    "Roy Williams can make $250K-plus from Nike but Cole Anthony can't? OK. Kids would buy Cole Anthony's signature shoes tonight if they could. Tell me the last time you wanted a pair of Air Roy's. Give that money to the players, the true trendsetters and promoters of these brands."

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