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Thread: Seth's take on NCAA Investigation

  1. #51
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    With all those coaches chattering makes me recall that a great man once said "It takes few words to speak the truth.

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    I am no fan of the NCAA, but lets be clear, let's look at the order of magnitude of the problem in NCAA D-1 Mbb. There are what, 351 D-1 basketball teams with say 12 scholarships per team resulting in something over 4,200 total scholarships? In reality, how many of these 4,200 scholarships are being paid under the table, the Top 100 athletes (2.4%)? The Top-200 athletes (4.8%)? The Top-400 Athletes (9.6%)? The NCAA has more than its share of problems but for the vast majority of student athletes who have the ability to go to school and participate in their sport on scholarship, are coming out far ahead of the average student who has to pay for tuition, room & board even with academic scholarships. The reality is, the vast majority of kids playing college sports will not play in professional sports, will not get a shoe contract, will not have their likeness put on NBA 2K, etc. I think the ad says something like 2.4% of kids will ever play sports above the collegiate level. Seems to me that there is a whole lot of complaining and #####ing about a really small, number of shoe companies, their representatives, agents (or want to be agents), unscrupulous coaching staffs as well as kids and their families who willingly broke one or more laws.

    Yes, the kids and their families should be prosecuted by the law. I don't for one minute believe they did not know the rules for accepting cash and/or benefits for somebody. Just check the doors on every toilet door in the MAC, a simplified set of rules is posted there. Yes, you can place the blame on the shoe companies, the sponsors, the agents, etc. and maybe the vast majority of the blame belongs there, but the large majority of kids and/or their families knew acceptance of the money was wrong and they did it anyway.

    Here is an interesting article about "paying" the student athletes and a realistic look on how it would impact the Athletic Departments. It looks at the entire athletic department and not just Mbb and football. Whether the numbers are right or wrong, it shows the complexity of paying student athletes. It is not near as easy as some on this board and many of the sports writers/reporters believe it to be.

    Link: https://www.slipperstillfits.com/201...y-its-athletes

    Once again, while this issue deals with big dollars, it really deals with a relatively small number of elite student athletes. For the vast majority of student athletes the current system works just fine.

    Just something to keep in mind,

    ZagDad

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    I am no fan of the NCAA, but lets be clear, let's look at the order of magnitude of the problem in NCAA D-1 Mbb. There are what, 351 D-1 basketball teams with say 12 scholarships per team resulting in something over 4,200 total scholarships? In reality, how many of these 4,200 scholarships are being paid under the table, the Top 100 athletes (2.4%)? The Top-200 athletes (4.8%)? The Top-400 Athletes (9.6%)? The NCAA has more than its share of problems but for the vast majority of student athletes who have the ability to go to school and participate in their sport on scholarship, are coming out far ahead of the average student who has to pay for tuition, room & board even with academic scholarships. The reality is, the vast majority of kids playing college sports will not play in professional sports, will not get a shoe contract, will not have their likeness put on NBA 2K, etc. I think the ad says something like 2.4% of kids will ever play sports above the collegiate level. Seems to me that there is a whole lot of complaining and #####ing about a really small, number of shoe companies, their representatives, agents (or want to be agents), unscrupulous coaching staffs as well as kids and their families who willingly broke one or more laws.

    Yes, the kids and their families should be prosecuted by the law. I don't for one minute believe they did not know the rules for accepting cash and/or benefits for somebody. Just check the doors on every toilet door in the MAC, a simplified set of rules is posted there. Yes, you can place the blame on the shoe companies, the sponsors, the agents, etc. and maybe the vast majority of the blame belongs there, but the large majority of kids and/or their families knew acceptance of the money was wrong and they did it anyway.

    Here is an interesting article about "paying" the student athletes and a realistic look on how it would impact the Athletic Departments. It looks at the entire athletic department and not just Mbb and football. Whether the numbers are right or wrong, it shows the complexity of paying student athletes. It is not near as easy as some on this board and many of the sports writers/reporters believe it to be.

    Link: https://www.slipperstillfits.com/201...y-its-athletes

    Once again, while this issue deals with big dollars, it really deals with a relatively small number of elite student athletes. For the vast majority of student athletes the current system works just fine.

    Just something to keep in mind,

    ZagDad
    Thanks for the link, and I agree.

    If the top QB in college football was getting $50,000/yr in endorsements, and the O-line was getting just schollies...would they block for him? What would his stats be if nobody helped?

    Same with Ayton at Arizona. If his teammates had known he was getting $10 grand/mo, how manyy passes would he have been the recipient of?

    NCAA is about team sports (even in golf) and gender equality. Lying and cheating should be punished...harshly.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Willandi,

    When I went to Gonzaga back in the early 80's, I was not gifted athletically enough to earn a scholarship, and the academic scholarships of the day where not near what they are today. Thus, I went to Gonzaga the old fashioned way, I "earned" it.

    All it took was 30 hours/Wk during the school year and 40 hours/Wk during the summer, every week and every overtime shift I could get. I took 2 weeks off per year for semester exams. I don't really have the stomach for listening to a bunch of people whining about a kid having to play basketball for a year for a miserly scholarship (that I worked over 1,600 Hrs/Yr for) while waiting for a year for his 7- or 8-figure payday.

    The agony of it all (sarcasm definitely intended),

    ZagDad

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    Willandi,

    When I went to Gonzaga back in the early 80's, I was not gifted athletically enough to earn a scholarship, and the academic scholarships of the day where not near what they are today. Thus, I went to Gonzaga the old fashioned way, I "earned" it.

    All it took was 30 hours/Wk during the school year and 40 hours/Wk during the summer, every week and every overtime shift I could get. I took 2 weeks off per year for semester exams. I don't really have the stomach for listening to a bunch of people whining about a kid having to play basketball for a year for a miserly scholarship (that I worked over 1,600 Hrs/Yr for) while waiting for a year for his 7- or 8-figure payday.

    The agony of it all (sarcasm definitely intended),

    ZagDad
    I remember Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris having to get off season jobs to pay the bills.

    Times sure have changed. I guess I am just a curmudgeon.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    Willandi,

    When I went to Gonzaga back in the early 80's, I was not gifted athletically enough to earn a scholarship, and the academic scholarships of the day where not near what they are today. Thus, I went to Gonzaga the old fashioned way, I "earned" it.

    All it took was 30 hours/Wk during the school year and 40 hours/Wk during the summer, every week and every overtime shift I could get. I took 2 weeks off per year for semester exams. I don't really have the stomach for listening to a bunch of people whining about a kid having to play basketball for a year for a miserly scholarship (that I worked over 1,600 Hrs/Yr for) while waiting for a year for his 7- or 8-figure payday.

    The agony of it all (sarcasm definitely intended),

    ZagDad
    Kudos on your hard work. I went to GU the old fashioned way, I had a rich uncle (Sam). To pay him back, I had to do 4 years in the Army...lol.

    O/T, during my visit two summers ago, I stopped by the ROTC department. I was disappointed to see that the cadet "battalion" numbered less than 80, despite a threefold increase in undergrads. Perhaps other schools are offering other incentives to attract scholarship cadets. I know TCU offers a scholarship that covers room and board for these cadets. My summer jobs paid for that cost back then (no complaints here).

    What got me to GU was a recruiting visit by a hardcore, enthusiastic Airborne Ranger Infantry Major (Major Phelps). It was really cool to be pulled out of class by the Assistant Principal, announcing to the class (not just whispering to the teacher), "there's an Army Major that is here to speak to TZF about attending Gonzaga University."

    Better yet, it was in the class of the only teacher on campus who supported my decision, a former Jesuit priest at Marquette. He was thrilled I chose GU, unlike other teachers who told me they were "disappointed with me" for accepting an ROTC scholarship. It was a school near Berkeley, and it was 1972.

    Now their alumni website has a "Wall of Honor" for those who served in the military. I found that ironic, considering my last two months of HS.

    Apologies for the thread hijack. I'll never criticize any of our players for making decisions for themselves, whether I concur or not. If I was so damn brilliant, I'd be sipping Auslese at my estate in Traben-Trarbach.

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    When you are not supposed to pay players to play for you it is wrong to do so. Ethics and federal law are very different things, in my opinion. College basketball is supposed to about the former. The mantra in baseball that if you ain't cheating you ain't trying just doesn't apply. These high level school already have a huge advantage over smaller schools because of history, tradition, facilities, and institutional money that is available to the program (for the best coaches, travel, etc). Paying players shouldn't be even necessary, and it probably amounts to these same blue bloods competing with each for the services of these players with this money. These programs aren't paying players to correct a moral problem with exploiting players-- they are just competing with other schools and keeping the boosters happy. Add on to that the self interests of assistant coaches and shoe company executives, who also probably don't care about the players, and this becomes a very dirty, immoral, unethical, situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    When you are not supposed to pay players to play for you it is wrong to do so. Ethics and federal law are very different things, in my opinion. College basketball is supposed to about the former. The mantra in baseball that if you ain't cheating you ain't trying just doesn't apply. These high level school already have a huge advantage over smaller schools because of history, tradition, facilities, and institutional money that is available to the program (for the best coaches, travel, etc). Paying players shouldn't be even necessary, and it probably amounts to these same blue bloods competing with each for the services of these players with this money. These programs aren't paying players to correct a moral problem with exploiting players-- they are just competing with other schools and keeping the boosters happy. Add on to that the self interests of assistant coaches and shoe company executives, who also probably don't care about the players, and this becomes a very dirty, immoral, unethical, situation.
    Spot on
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    I wonder if any of the athletes/parents that have taken money were also getting Pell Grants.
    Birddog

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    Is money exchanging hands a problem if those giving and those receiving aren’t caught?

    it’s been going on for 50+ years. Seth is naive or deceptive.

    His company has multi billion dollar contract with NCAA basketball you think they care about image of the product?

    Wanna help curb this problem.....death penalty for any program caught cheating. Until then it’s really more of a suggestion please don’t break the rules.

    The other option....free market..allow kids to prosper.

    How many are aware of how this case started? NCAA had/has nothing to do with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    Is money exchanging hands a problem if those giving and those receiving aren’t caught?

    it’s been going on for 50+ years. Seth is naive or deceptive.

    His company has multi billion dollar contract with NCAA basketball you think they care about image of the product?

    Wanna help curb this problem.....death penalty for any program caught cheating. Until then it’s really more of a suggestion please don’t break the rules.

    The other option....free market..allow kids to prosper.

    How many are aware of how this case started? NCAA had/has nothing to do with it.
    The only possible answer, but since the visible ones are the largest blue bloods of the blue bloods, it will never happen.

    That is why my opinion is prison for all involved including the student athlete that takes money, his/her family, the coaches and agents involved and the ones giving the money, be they shoe companies, alumni or other supporters.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    When you are not supposed to pay players to play for you it is wrong to do so. Ethics and federal law are very different things, in my opinion. College basketball is supposed to about the former. The mantra in baseball that if you ain't cheating you ain't trying just doesn't apply. These high level school already have a huge advantage over smaller schools because of history, tradition, facilities, and institutional money that is available to the program (for the best coaches, travel, etc). Paying players shouldn't be even necessary, and it probably amounts to these same blue bloods competing with each for the services of these players with this money. These programs aren't paying players to correct a moral problem with exploiting players-- they are just competing with other schools and keeping the boosters happy. Add on to that the self interests of assistant coaches and shoe company executives, who also probably don't care about the players, and this becomes a very dirty, immoral, unethical, situation.
    +1

    "Keeping the Boosters Happy" rings so true to me. It starts in middle school AAU programs all the way through high school and tournament BB teams. Pay to play (booster pressure) starts at a young age IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    I am no fan of the NCAA, but lets be clear, let's look at the order of magnitude of the problem in NCAA D-1 Mbb. There are what, 351 D-1 basketball teams with say 12 scholarships per team resulting in something over 4,200 total scholarships? In reality, how many of these 4,200 scholarships are being paid under the table, the Top 100 athletes (2.4%)? The Top-200 athletes (4.8%)? The Top-400 Athletes (9.6%)? The NCAA has more than its share of problems but for the vast majority of student athletes who have the ability to go to school and participate in their sport on scholarship, are coming out far ahead of the average student who has to pay for tuition, room & board even with academic scholarships. The reality is, the vast majority of kids playing college sports will not play in professional sports, will not get a shoe contract, will not have their likeness put on NBA 2K, etc. I think the ad says something like 2.4% of kids will ever play sports above the collegiate level. Seems to me that there is a whole lot of complaining and #####ing about a really small, number of shoe companies, their representatives, agents (or want to be agents), unscrupulous coaching staffs as well as kids and their families who willingly broke one or more laws.

    Yes, the kids and their families should be prosecuted by the law. I don't for one minute believe they did not know the rules for accepting cash and/or benefits for somebody. Just check the doors on every toilet door in the MAC, a simplified set of rules is posted there. Yes, you can place the blame on the shoe companies, the sponsors, the agents, etc. and maybe the vast majority of the blame belongs there, but the large majority of kids and/or their families knew acceptance of the money was wrong and they did it anyway.

    Here is an interesting article about "paying" the student athletes and a realistic look on how it would impact the Athletic Departments. It looks at the entire athletic department and not just Mbb and football. Whether the numbers are right or wrong, it shows the complexity of paying student athletes. It is not near as easy as some on this board and many of the sports writers/reporters believe it to be.

    Link: https://www.slipperstillfits.com/201...y-its-athletes

    Once again, while this issue deals with big dollars, it really deals with a relatively small number of elite student athletes. For the vast majority of student athletes the current system works just fine.

    Just something to keep in mind,

    ZagDad
    The problem with the Article is that it makes assumptions without supporting them.

    The NCAA has its hands tied because it has to make profit to keep sports programs and pay for teams, but it can’t afford to pay any players because to pay one means to pay them all.
    Why is this?

    Arguments are made that players should be able to profit off their likeness, but this creates a massive exposure war between universities. A university that can make a deal with a company or promoter to market every player on its roster would have a significant recruiting advantage over a school that cannot make these deals. It also makes schools that are in bigger markets such as LA or NY much more desirable to recruits.
    Yes, the world isn't perfect. In business there is competition and those involved will maximize their advantages. This could literally be written about the current situation. Who wants to play in Spokane when a beach in California or Florida is an option? Maybe all schools should only be allowed to train and play games in remote outposts in the hinterlands like Spokane to make sure things are fair. There already is a massive exposure war. There is nothing inherently wrong with a massive exposure war.

    Do we cut out financial spending for less profitable sports and leave a ton of athletes marginalized in order to pay premier athletes?
    No. This assumes there isn't enough to go around which is only supported by the (frankly very silly) idea that the NCAA would have to pay every athlete the same salary (you know, like how they pay every coach the same salary, regardless of whether they are the female crew team coach or the football coach). There is no support why the NCAA would HAVE to choose such a model. There is no reason to believe the NCAA would have to pay a penny, as many are merely for allowing athletes to get what they can get. Car dealership commercials, cushy job at the golf resort, whatever ...

    Because the legal age of work is 16, do we pay the elite high school athletes for their time as well? If no, why not? It’s the same principal as the NCAA, just state regulated instead of under a federal organization.
    Uh no. And they aren't even close to the same thing. Legally, morally or factually. High schools aren't making (for the most part) hundreds of millions of dollars off of the players' likeness while depriving them of any opportunity to do the same by threat of disqualifying them from what has been a virtual monopoly on the industry for players at that age (although that is changing). There isn't a coach in a massive arena raking in five million dollars per year. Most high school sports are kids playing (and often times paying to do so) a game with nobody but parents and a few friends there to cheer them on. If the question is whether we should let teenagers profit off of elite ability by doing car commercials or playing in 3 on 3 tournaments with cash prizes or whatever, then that's probably fine. Elite tennis and golf players make money as teenagers. There is nothing inherently wrong with the idea. Most high school players and college players will not make money off of their ability. Ever.

    This article is a bit absurd with not much support for its opinions. I'm not saying I agree with turning the shoe guys loose on college kids, but this article can be summed up as follows:

    If we start paying these guys for their work, what's next? Women athletes might want to get paid for their work? High School kids might want to get paid for their work? Where does it end?

    And the answer is simple. If the old rich people that control an industry start making hundreds of millions of dollars from someone's work, yeah, that person should be allowed to squeeze a little juice for themselves.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgadfly View Post
    The problem with the Article is that it makes assumptions without supporting them.



    Why is this?


    Yes, the world isn't perfect. In business there is competition and those involved will maximize their advantages. This could literally be written about the current situation. Who wants to play in Spokane when a beach in California or Florida is an option? Maybe all schools should only be allowed to train and play games in remote outposts in the hinterlands like Spokane to make sure things are fair. There already is a massive exposure war. There is nothing inherently wrong with a massive exposure war.


    No. This assumes there isn't enough to go around which is only supported by the (frankly very silly) idea that the NCAA would have to pay every athlete the same salary (you know, like how they pay every coach the same salary, regardless of whether they are the female crew team coach or the football coach). There is no support why the NCAA would HAVE to choose such a model. There is no reason to believe the NCAA would have to pay a penny, as many are merely for allowing athletes to get what they can get. Car dealership commercials, cushy job at the golf resort, whatever ...



    Uh no. And they aren't even close to the same thing. Legally, morally or factually. High schools aren't making (for the most part) hundreds of millions of dollars off of the players' likeness while depriving them of any opportunity to do the same by threat of disqualifying them from what has been a virtual monopoly on the industry for players at that age (although that is changing). There isn't a coach in a massive arena raking in five million dollars per year. Most high school sports are kids playing (and often times paying to do so) a game with nobody but parents and a few friends there to cheer them on. If the question is whether we should let teenagers profit off of elite ability by doing car commercials or playing in 3 on 3 tournaments with cash prizes or whatever, then that's probably fine. Elite tennis and golf players make money as teenagers. There is nothing inherently wrong with the idea. Most high school players and college players will not make money off of their ability. Ever.

    This article is a bit absurd with not much support for its opinions. I'm not saying I agree with turning the shoe guys loose on college kids, but this article can be summed up as follows:

    If we start paying these guys for their work, what's next? Women athletes might want to get paid for their work? High School kids might want to get paid for their work? Where does it end?

    And the answer is simple. If the old rich people that control an industry start making hundreds of millions of dollars from someone's work, yeah, that person should be allowed to squeeze a little juice for themselves.
    The reason you would have to pay the woman crew member is because it is the law. You have to spend as much on women's athletics as you do on men's.

    If you have the absolute best college QB, what is it that makes him the best? Generally it is because he passe well and runs well so he wins games. What happens when he gets paid more than the O Line and they resent that? If they don't block for him, he doesn't have time to pass or run. What if his receivers resent his money and won't catch his passes? He no longer is the best QB in college football.

    When you have that same QB and his teammates are OK with him getting $10,000 a month, what happens when joe bettor comes in and offers him $250,000 cash and under the table, to throw the game? The Longest Yard scenario comes up.

    Those are the reasons why paying college athletes any more than a monthly stipend is wrong and not feasible.

    In My Opinion.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    So if we are going to accept paying players we would be endorsing the idea of a junior professional basketball league in essence. That flies in the face of what school athletics is all about isn't it? It supports the idea that we can get whatever money can buy, the heart and soul of corruption. As mentioned, the free ride scholarship is worth a ton already isn't it? Not to mention an education which is power in itself. If money can buy success in college sports,why bother watching this farce? What part of amateur athletics is hard to understand? Maybe a system similar to the U-XX leagues in Europe is a better system. The kids can either play for money or decide not to take pay and keep their eligibility to play college ball as an option. This whole thing needs to be cleaned up for the sake of the kids that work their hearts out for our enjoyment, and set an example of ethical behavior which has become an endangered species in itself. This is disgusting.

    The only redeeming thing I can say is that when a clean program like Gonzaga takes down a corrupt program it's all the more satisfying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    The reason you would have to pay the woman crew member is because it is the law. You have to spend as much on women's athletics as you do on men's.
    That's not the law. Coaches, who are also part of the system, are paid at different levels depending on the sport they coach and their perceived ability within that sport.

    Throwing a game is more likely if you are being paid above board by a legitimate company to endorse their products than by a player who doesn't have any income source because of the NCAA rules? How so? Is the longest yard scenario one found within the current system of not paying players?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mgadfly View Post
    That's not the law. Coaches, who are also part of the system, are paid at different levels depending on the sport they coach.
    I didn't address the coaches. Women's athletics, in college, are to receive the same amount of money as men's athletics. Title IX. That IS the law.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Is it really amateur athletics when Schools and coaches are making MILLIONS of dollars every year?

    A better argument could be made if college sports had high school salaries

    $1,700,000.00 per win in NCAA tourney doesn't scream amateur either

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    I am no fan of the NCAA, but lets be clear, let's look at the order of magnitude of the problem in NCAA D-1 Mbb. There are what, 351 D-1 basketball teams with say 12 scholarships per team resulting in something over 4,200 total scholarships? In reality, how many of these 4,200 scholarships are being paid under the table, the Top 100 athletes (2.4%)? The Top-200 athletes (4.8%)? The Top-400 Athletes (9.6%)? The NCAA has more than its share of problems but for the vast majority of student athletes who have the ability to go to school and participate in their sport on scholarship, are coming out far ahead of the average student who has to pay for tuition, room & board even with academic scholarships. The reality is, the vast majority of kids playing college sports will not play in professional sports, will not get a shoe contract, will not have their likeness put on NBA 2K, etc. I think the ad says something like 2.4% of kids will ever play sports above the collegiate level. Seems to me that there is a whole lot of complaining and #####ing about a really small, number of shoe companies, their representatives, agents (or want to be agents), unscrupulous coaching staffs as well as kids and their families who willingly broke one or more laws.

    Yes, the kids and their families should be prosecuted by the law. I don't for one minute believe they did not know the rules for accepting cash and/or benefits for somebody. Just check the doors on every toilet door in the MAC, a simplified set of rules is posted there. Yes, you can place the blame on the shoe companies, the sponsors, the agents, etc. and maybe the vast majority of the blame belongs there, but the large majority of kids and/or their families knew acceptance of the money was wrong and they did it anyway.

    Here is an interesting article about "paying" the student athletes and a realistic look on how it would impact the Athletic Departments. It looks at the entire athletic department and not just Mbb and football. Whether the numbers are right or wrong, it shows the complexity of paying student athletes. It is not near as easy as some on this board and many of the sports writers/reporters believe it to be.

    Link: https://www.slipperstillfits.com/201...y-its-athletes

    Once again, while this issue deals with big dollars, it really deals with a relatively small number of elite student athletes. For the vast majority of student athletes the current system works just fine.

    Just something to keep in mind,

    ZagDad

    When I say 'pay' the athletes, what I really mean is restructure the NCAA 'scholarship' system to bring everything above the board. Let's recognize the some athletes are worth more than others and let them work with agents and shoe companies, etc. Schools can still provide athletes stipends/grants/payments/scholarships (insert what-ever-term-you-want-to-use) and still manage their programs within their budget. But lets get rid of the part that makes people use illegal means; lets get rid of the prohibition on student athletes getting paid by agents, sponsors, etc. Bring it all above the board, make it visible and transparent.

    The argument that some won't compete as hard if they see their teammates getting a sweet deal is invalid because that situation is occurring already. Don't think for a minute that kids on teams now don't know which of their teammates are getting sweet deals and which don't. They all know.

    Bring everything above the board and make it transparent and let it ride. And yes, some kids are going to be more valuable to sponsors than others, they are already. Look at the mock drafts to figure it out. They kids do. They all know where they stand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizZAG View Post
    So if we are going to accept paying players we would be endorsing the idea of a junior professional basketball league in essence. That flies in the face of what school athletics is all about isn't it? It supports the idea that we can get whatever money can buy, the heart and soul of corruption. As mentioned, the free ride scholarship is worth a ton already isn't it? Not to mention an education which is power in itself. If money can buy success in college sports,why bother watching this farce? What part of amateur athletics is hard to understand? Maybe a system similar to the U-XX leagues in Europe is a better system. The kids can either play for money or decide not to take pay and keep their eligibility to play college ball as an option. This whole thing needs to be cleaned up for the sake of the kids that work their hearts out for our enjoyment, and set an example of ethical behavior which has become an endangered species in itself. This is disgusting.

    The only redeeming thing I can say is that when a clean program like Gonzaga takes down a corrupt program it's all the more satisfying.

    Gonzaga is not clean. Not in the sense of what you list in the first paragraph. Gonzaga's basketball is a massive business in its own right. Someone is profiting off the men's basketball team. Mark Few is not a seasoned veteran of the philosophy department who heads out to the 800 person gymnasium three days a week to coach the plucky little dudes who are playing basketball for love of the sport. The hypocrisy is that we are super okay with our school destroying what amateur sports used to be (and I mean they ran it over with an excavator, shot with a bazooka and then dropped an A-bomb on amateurism as far as GU men's basketball program goes) but draw the line when the actual workers want a bigger cut (or to make the big cuts above board).

    I'm all for taking the money out of college basketball and not having it be a big business. In fact, you can go watch Whitworth or PLU or whoever like I do. Or you can coach and watch high schoolers and grade schoolers (I've also done this). But turning a blind eye to a bunch of fat hogs at the basketball as a business trough and then decrying the little piglets attempts to get a little access of their own as destroying the sanctity of our beloved amateur pastime is a bit much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    The only possible answer, but since the visible ones are the largest blue bloods of the blue bloods, it will never happen.

    That is why my opinion is prison for all involved including the student athlete that takes money, his/her family, the coaches and agents involved and the ones giving the money, be they shoe companies, alumni or other supporters.
    Prison? For a pretty innocuous white collar crime? The guys they have on trial now are looking at 6 months and potentially less. Why should this be a criminal matter? Why isn't this just an NCAA issue?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    I didn't address the coaches. Women's athletics, in college, are to receive the same amount of money as men's athletics. Title IX. That IS the law.
    That's NOT the law. Title IX requires equal expenditures by the school in the limited area of financial assistance. Thus, the facilities can be different, the coach salaries can be different, and a whole bunch of other stuff can be different. If a school continues to grant the same scholarships but allows players to go get some money on their own, there is NO Title IX implication. I don't know what would happen if the school separated salaries for school employees from the financial aid package. I don't know what would happen if the school allowed salaries based on a percentage of gate revenue (it may have a discriminatory impact). I do know that it isn't Title IX that prohibits players from taking a shoe companies check.

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    The violations on the part of families and players are ethically wrong because they are against the established NCAA rules. They are not ethically wrong in the sense that these players deserve higher pay for providing better services that are worth more to the market. That is the whole ethic behind capitalism and in no other labor arena are salaries so artifically capped against potential earnings, especially without unionization. When blue bloods bring in over 15 million a year in revenue and top coaches make over 4 million dollars a year off of the underpaid labor of these athletes who have no represenation, no I do not care if a family with little money takes a 100k for their kid to play at a basketball factory. Everything should be brought above board. Leave kids at scholarships, but allow them to sign endorsements and own their likeness. That way Adidas can pay Ayton 100k directly and everything is out in the open.

  24. #74
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    someone in DOJ decided to run with the ball and make their bones on this case in my humble opinion

    Christian Dawkins 24 facing these charges

    Bribery conspiracy, Payments of bribes, Honest services fraud conspiracy, Honest services fraud (3 counts), Wire fraud conspiracy (2 counts), Wire fraud (2 counts), Travel Act conspiracy, Money laundering conspiracy (200 years)
    https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr...oaches-college

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgadfly View Post
    Gonzaga is not clean. Not in the sense of what you list in the first paragraph. Gonzaga's basketball is a massive business in its own right. Someone is profiting off the men's basketball team. Mark Few is not a seasoned veteran of the philosophy department who heads out to the 800 person gymnasium three days a week to coach the plucky little dudes who are playing basketball for love of the sport. The hypocrisy is that we are super okay with our school destroying what amateur sports used to be (and I mean they ran it over with an excavator, shot with a bazooka and then dropped an A-bomb on amateurism as far as GU men's basketball program goes) but draw the line when the actual workers want a bigger cut (or to make the big cuts above board).

    I'm all for taking the money out of college basketball and not having it be a big business. In fact, you can go watch Whitworth or PLU or whoever like I do. Or you can coach and watch high schoolers and grade schoolers (I've also done this). But turning a blind eye to a bunch of fat hogs at the basketball as a business trough and then decrying the little piglets attempts to get a little access of their own as destroying the sanctity of our beloved amateur pastime is a bit much.
    Especially when the concept of amateurism doesn't even exist in reality anymore.
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
    - Gandalf the Grey

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