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Thread: Seth's take on NCAA Investigation

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    Default Seth's take on NCAA Investigation

    Check out @SethDavisHoops’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/SethDavisHoops/s...304889344?s=09

    Does he have a shoe company rep, too?

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    Def don’t buy that
    21 Straight Big Dances

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    The Best Point Guard to ever play the game: John Stockton, most assists, most steals.

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    Spoken like a true son of Lanny Davis, a Washington fixer for years.

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    Honestly this is a huge waste of tax payer dollars. Who cares about private party to private party bribery in college sports if the athlete gets a big chunk of that money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    Honestly this is a huge waste of tax payer dollars. Who cares about private party to private party bribery in college sports if the athlete gets a big chunk of that money?
    Me. Literally the only thing I care about that my tax dollars are going towards. I hate when people say this oversimplified statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    Honestly this is a huge waste of tax payer dollars. Who cares about private party to private party bribery in college sports if the athlete gets a big chunk of that money?
    I do as well.

    I think that Ayton should be charged in Arizona State court with defrauding the state and sentenced to prison. He was part of the problem.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Ladyzag, I agree with your sentiment, but as long as the kids are making false financial assistance claims (not reporting all aid being received on their FAFSA) and being aided and abetted in that effort by organizations and coaches, it is fraud.

    I think they should scrap scholarships, call them contracts and open the whole system up, let the kids get the value they are worth, let them work with agents, let them get sponsorships, just bring the whole system above the board and dismiss the current charade of amateurism. No one cares about that anymore, not the Olympics, not European sports, only the NCAA. And that is because they can reap what they don't sow and make a ton of money off the kids.

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    Waste of tax payer money? Is going after anyone that commits a crime a waste of tax payer money? Don't think this is a real crime? It certainly sounds like that is what you are saying Ladyzag.

    Let me ask you this: Do you think Ayton or his parents claimed what is being reported as being $10,000 per month on their taxes? Something tells me no... they aren't. Right there are alone they have committed a crime.

    Regardless of whether you are getting an athletic scholarship or not, you MUST fill out a FAFSA to get ANY aid from a school. Do you think those $120,000 are being reported on those FAFSA documents? Something tells me no... it isn't.

    That means they knowingly lied on those federal loan documents. That is committing fraud.

    Also, bribery, private or public, last I check is a crime... just like fraud.

    Ayton is just one example... it seems there are many others committing the same bribery and fraud.

    Still think this is a waste of taxpayer money?
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    Honestly this is a huge waste of tax payer dollars. Who cares about private party to private party bribery in college sports if the athlete gets a big chunk of that money?
    Uhhhh... you understand how this works, or nah?
    21 Straight Big Dances

    11 Straight Round of 32s

    10 Sweet Sixteens (5 Straight)

    4 Elite Eights

    2017 FINAL FOUR

    2 Winningest Players in college basketball history (Karnowski 137, Perkins 134)

    The Best Point Guard to ever play the game: John Stockton, most assists, most steals.

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    I think Seth makes a good point....where is the beef....where are the tapes.....where are the indictments ??? They have very little to show for the last couple years...all these reports are little more than gossip....and meanwhile they have cast a cloud over the whole system...

    I think Kitz maybe onto a solution....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    Honestly this is a huge waste of tax payer dollars. Who cares about private party to private party bribery in college sports if the athlete gets a big chunk of that money?
    Private bribery, as you call it, is tax fraud...failure to report income is how the feds nabbed Al Capone. As one who prepared tax returns for roughly 30 years, it irks me greatly that tax cheats get away with this. I did my best to make sure my clients paid not one dollar more than they were legally obligated to pay, and I won nearly every battle with the IRS.

    You can be sure that the IRS will be auditing every person named in this investigation, and it will be like the Globetrotters playing the Washington Nationals.

    Damn right I'm ticked...Zags do things right, Pacific gets slammed, and the blue bloods get away with everything under the sun.

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    As yet....I am not aware anyone has been charged with tax fraud ….as you say....that is a crime.....I am not so sure that giving kids money under these circumstances is a crime....a NCAA Violation.....yes....a crime ??? We shall see....

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    UNC beats NCAA in no show class case while spending ten’s millions in lawyer fees........defeats Gonzaga in Natty game under cloud of litigation and Zag fans still excited to play home and home with UNC like blessed little children.

    Wanna lead stop scheduling Arizona UNC types ...enabling behavior not a good look for those that want clean system imo

    Seth is idiot like his father imo

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    As yet....I am not aware anyone has been charged with tax fraud ….as you say....that is a crime.....I am not so sure that giving kids money under these circumstances is a crime....a NCAA Violation.....yes....a crime ??? We shall see....
    Shoe companies are indirectly paying these monies, taking business expenses for payments to these coaches. Lots of unreported income out there...call it a gift, there's gift tax to be paid over a certain amount.

    Player/family not reporting the income, that's a violation of tax law. Punishable by jail time? Perhaps, depending upon the amount.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    I do as well.

    I think that Ayton should be charged in Arizona State court with defrauding the state and sentenced to prison. He was part of the problem.
    Prison for a 19 year old kid taking money from a shoe company? Pretty harsh dont you think. Maybe a deferred sentence and pay restitution to uncle sam for the lost tax dollars plus penalties

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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh View Post
    Prison for a 19 year old kid taking money from a shoe company? Pretty harsh dont you think. Maybe a deferred sentence and pay restitution to uncle sam for the lost tax dollars plus penalties
    Agreed!

    Prison for a non violent first offense? Good grief!

    In fact, is there even a crime on his part?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    As yet....I am not aware anyone has been charged with tax fraud ….as you say....that is a crime.....I am not so sure that giving kids money under these circumstances is a crime....a NCAA Violation.....yes....a crime ??? We shall see....
    Again... if that money is not reported... that is a crime. Lying on your FAFSA is fraud... that is a crime.

    Also, this:


    Bribery is defined as money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust. That is exactly what is going on here and last I checked... it is STILL a crime.

    I just don't get why people here defend this. If these things are true, crimes most assuredly occurred and, no, our taxpayer money wasn't wasted.

    I guess we shouldn't waste the money to investigate white collar crime, or petty theft, or heck assault or murder at that point. What is the cutoff on crimes to where LE shouldn't bother with them?
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh View Post
    Prison for a 19 year old kid taking money from a shoe company? Pretty harsh dont you think. Maybe a deferred sentence and pay restitution to uncle sam for the lost tax dollars plus penalties
    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    Agreed!

    Prison for a non violent first offense? Good grief!

    In fact, is there even a crime on his part?
    He knew that he was breaking the law, no matter if it was coach or a shoe company.

    He knowingly defrauded the state of Arizona by being on an athletic scholarship while being paid illegally.

    How many millions of dollars were affected by his being a cheater?

    It has to start somewhere with someone. Don't want to jail him? OK, require 4000 hours of community service to be served in 2 years. Make him put his millions of NBA dollars on hold while he is being punished.

    I am still pissed at the NCAA for rolling over on UNC and ALL the other blue bloods.

    Did Zion's mother get paid? Duke should lose schollies and be barred from the tournament for a few years.

    Doing nothing, or slapping the wrist and saying he is a 19 yr old first offender is enabling the rotten system. How many kids next year would accept money if they knew that they could go to prison? How many coaches or shoe companies would continue to cheat if they knew that it meant a lifetime ban and/or prison?

    How would YOU go about stopping the problem? The kids and/or their families were also the ones demanding this money.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    He knew that he was breaking the law, no matter if it was coach or a shoe company.

    He knowingly defrauded the state of Arizona by being on an athletic scholarship while being paid illegally.

    How many millions of dollars were affected by his being a cheater?

    It has to start somewhere with someone. Don't want to jail him? OK, require 4000 hours of community service to be served in 2 years. Make him put his millions of NBA dollars on hold while he is being punished.

    I am still pissed at the NCAA for rolling over on UNC and ALL the other blue bloods.

    Did Zion's mother get paid? Duke should lose schollies and be barred from the tournament for a few years.

    Doing nothing, or slapping the wrist and saying he is a 19 yr old first offender is enabling the rotten system. How many kids next year would accept money if they knew that they could go to prison? How many coaches or shoe companies would continue to cheat if they knew that it meant a lifetime ban and/or prison?

    How would YOU go about stopping the problem? The kids and/or their families were also the ones demanding this money.
    But what law did he break? Everyone agrees that it is sleazy, or at least most of us do but you’re allowing your emotions to get in the way the facts. Taking money is not against the law. Now, if he did not report it on his taxes, which I’m sure he did not then yes the IRS by all means has every right to go after him but you keep saying that he broke the law by getting paid. OK, what law?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Again... if that money is not reported... that is a crime. Lying on your FAFSA is fraud... that is a crime.

    Also, this:


    Bribery is defined as money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust. That is exactly what is going on here and last I checked... it is STILL a crime.

    I just don't get why people here defend this. If these things are true, crimes most assuredly occurred and, no, our taxpayer money wasn't wasted.

    I guess we shouldn't waste the money to investigate white collar crime, or petty theft, or heck assault or murder at that point. What is the cutoff on crimes to where LE shouldn't bother with them?
    Quote Originally Posted by thespywhozaggedme View Post
    But what law did he break? Everyone agrees that it is sleazy, or at least most of us do but you’re allowing your emotions to get in the way the facts. Taking money is not against the law. Now, if he did not report it on his taxes, which I’m sure he did not then yes the IRS by all means has every right to go after him but you keep saying that he broke the law by getting paid. OK, what law?
    He accepted money illegally, under the table.

    That means...against the law. I am not an attorney, didn't play one on TV and din't sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, but I know that accepting money under the table is against the law. Fraud if not declared on his taxes, and defrauding the state of Arizona would be my first thoughts.

    Add in what LIZF posted.

    I would also suggest that by your (you're, yore) not being able to see this, perhaps those emotions are getting in yore way
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    He accepted money illegally, under the table.

    That means...against the law. I am not an attorney, didn't play one on TV and din't sleep in a Holiday Inn last night, but I know that accepting money under the table is against the law. Fraud if not declared on his taxes, and defrauding the state of Arizona would be my first thoughts.

    Add in what LIZF posted.

    I would also suggest that by your (you're, yore) not being able to see this, perhaps those emotions are getting in yore way
    I'm not emotional at all, I couldn't care less one way or the other. What do you mean by "illegally"? If I give you cash for performance, that's not illegal. Now, if you refuse to report it to the IRS, that's on you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thespywhozaggedme View Post
    I'm not emotional at all, I couldn't care less one way or the other. What do you mean by "illegally"? If I give you cash for performance, that's not illegal. Now, if you refuse to report it to the IRS, that's on you.
    Under current law, if you give someone "cash for performance" exceeding $600, you are required to issue that person a 1099. Ayton apparently received tens of thousands over that limit, as did these go-betweens for the shoe companies.

    Welcome back, spy.

    ETA: Actually, it's on both parties: the payer for not reporting the payment, and the payee for not declaring the income. You have various parties claiming in court they paid monies to certain players. I would expect that the federal prosecutors have evidence of those cash payments. Several people have pleaded guilty already, with more to come.

    While you "couldn't care less", others like me (who have dealt with the IRS up close and personal) want to see our laws applied equitably and fairly. The federal government has a great opportunity to do this in these cases, and in the college admissions scandal. Otherwise, it plays out like the series Billions, where Bobby Axelrod, Chuck Rhoades, and the rest of the amoral cast of characters put themselves above and beyond the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thespywhozaggedme View Post
    I'm not emotional at all, I couldn't care less one way or the other. What do you mean by "illegally"? If I give you cash for performance, that's not illegal. Now, if you refuse to report it to the IRS, that's on you.
    People have cited the law. Refusing to see their examples is on you.

    Being dispassionate is also an emotion.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by thespywhozaggedme View Post
    But what law did he break? Everyone agrees that it is sleazy, or at least most of us do but you’re allowing your emotions to get in the way the facts. Taking money is not against the law. Now, if he did not report it on his taxes, which I’m sure he did not then yes the IRS by all means has every right to go after him but you keep saying that he broke the law by getting paid. OK, what law?
    This whole case is based on the sleaze factor.

    The Feds are claiming schools like Kansas and Arizona are somehow being defrauded by these kids attending them while coaches/handlers are paying the kids to attend.

    its a farce..exhibit A...Miller

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Under current law, if you give someone "cash for performance" exceeding $600, you are required to issue that person a 1099. Ayton apparently received tens of thousands over that limit, as did these go-betweens for the shoe companies.

    Welcome back, spy.

    ETA: Actually, it's on both parties: the payer for not reporting the payment, and the payee for not declaring the income. You have various parties claiming in court they paid monies to certain players. I would expect that the federal prosecutors have evidence of those cash payments. Several people have pleaded guilty already, with more to come.

    While you "couldn't care less", others like me (who have dealt with the IRS up close and personal) want to see our laws applied equitably and fairly. The federal government has a great opportunity to do this in these cases, and in the college admissions scandal. Otherwise, it plays out like the series Billions, where Bobby Axelrod, Chuck Rhoades, and the rest of the amoral cast of characters put themselves above and beyond the law.
    You took my words out of context. I don't care if he get's arrested or not, that's what I meant and I thought that it was pretty obvious. College athletics is a cesspool. Zions parent lived in a $900k mansion in Durham this year. We're one of if not the only major program that isn't dirty. If Ayton get's arrested, then so does virtually every top recruit.

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