Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 76 to 97 of 97

Thread: Seth's take on NCAA Investigation

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    6,149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    The violations on the part of families and players are ethically wrong because they are against the established NCAA rules. They are not ethically wrong in the sense that these players deserve higher pay for providing better services that are worth more to the market. That is the whole ethic behind capitalism and in no other labor arena are salaries so artifically capped against potential earnings, especially without unionization. When blue bloods bring in over 15 million a year in revenue and top coaches make over 4 million dollars a year off of the underpaid labor of these athletes who have no represenation, no I do not care if a family with little money takes a 100k for their kid to play at a basketball factory. Everything should be brought above board. Leave kids at scholarships, but allow them to sign endorsements and own their likeness. That way Adidas can pay Ayton 100k directly and everything is out in the open.
    This is the end result of capitalism without restraints.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    14,771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    This is the end result of capitalism without restraints.
    The whole point of restructuring would be to get the money to those who are earning it. Right now, the system is set up so that the 'CEOs' of college basketball get 100% of the money while the laborers get 0%. Talk about unfair! NCAA and college basketball admins get infinity times more than their workers.
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
    - Gandalf the Grey

    ________________________________



    Foo Time

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    7,066

    Default

    the restraint is boycott Disneyland/world/ABC/ESPN/21st Century Fox....stop contributing Mr Igers salary

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    114

    Default

    Mods can we move this thread?

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    7,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    Mods can we move this thread?
    why not just stop reading OP?

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    13,085

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    I remember Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris having to get off season jobs to pay the bills.

    Times sure have changed. I guess I am just a curmudgeon.
    And in Mickey's case, while enduring a miserable hangover!!

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    The violations on the part of families and players are ethically wrong because they are against the established NCAA rules. They are not ethically wrong in the sense that these players deserve higher pay for providing better services that are worth more to the market. That is the whole ethic behind capitalism and in no other labor arena are salaries so artifically capped against potential earnings, especially without unionization. When blue bloods bring in over 15 million a year in revenue and top coaches make over 4 million dollars a year off of the underpaid labor of these athletes who have no represenation, no I do not care if a family with little money takes a 100k for their kid to play at a basketball factory. Everything should be brought above board. Leave kids at scholarships, but allow them to sign endorsements and own their likeness. That way Adidas can pay Ayton 100k directly and everything is out in the open.
    Did the parents and/or student athletes claim the income on their taxes? If not, then they violated federal law, not an NCAA law.

    Maybe you have heard of the College Admissions scandal and the types of federal laws (not to mention state laws) that the parents have violated and the amount of time behind bars some of these parents are looking at. White collar crime is a crime in which somebody gets hurt in some fashion or another. It really burns my behind that we have people on this board not only trying to justify the crime(s) but then want to argue that they should not be penalized for the crime.

    I ask again, what is the order of magnitude of the problem? Are we talking about maybe the Top 100 (at best) or 2.5% of the scholarship, D-1 Mbb student athletes? Is the current system fair (or more than fair) for the other 97.5%? About the 2.5%, the worst thing that happens is that they have to go to school (on scholarship) and attend classes (unless you go to UNC) for maybe 7 months (until the NCAA tournament is over) and delay their 7- or 8-figure payday for a year. Yes, some people could be injured, maybe catastrophically, but for the vast majority of elites, the big payday is simply delayed a year.

    Given that the one and done is going to be eliminated (not as soon as most of us would like), the magnitude of this problem will be somewhat reduced and since it really only impacts a very small percentage of players and the only penalty the vast majority of elites have to pay is a delay in their big payday, is a massive overall of the NCAA model justified or needed?

    There is no model which will work well equally between all athletes and all sports programs. If (and this is a big if) the current model is working for 97.5% of the people, then I would postulate that the current system is working pretty well (for the vast majority of the student athletes). Could adjustments be made for improvement, certainly but if all your complaining about is the top 2.5% of the elite athletes to justify massive changes in the current model, I don't by into the justification.

    The needs of the few don't overwhelm the needs of the many, IMO.

    ZagDad

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    14,771

    Default

    Make the payments permissable and above the board, then the parents will feel free to report them on their taxes and FAFSA and then we have no crimes. Case solved.

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
    - Gandalf the Grey

    ________________________________



    Foo Time

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    7,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    Make the payments permissable and above the board, then the parents will feel free to report them on their taxes and FAFSA and then we have no crimes. Case solved.

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
    Only students receiving some form of aid must fill out FAFSA correct? The Hollywood parents paying cash for school don't have to fill out FAFSA do they? I get they've broken other laws.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,758

    Default

    Zagceo:

    You have put the cart before the horse. You fill out the FAFSA to determine if you are eligible for financial aid, not after you have received financial aid. We had to fill out the FAFSA as part of the college application process for our kids. While quite a few scholarships are academic (not need) based the Universities wanted the FAFSA so they could put together the best financial package (combination of scholarships, grants, loans, etc.) they could for the prospective student. Not sure if a University would accept an application without a completed FAFSA, but LongIslandZag probably could answer the question.

    Not sure how this works for scholarship athletes.

    ZagDad

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    14,771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    Only students receiving some form of aid must fill out FAFSA correct? The Hollywood parents paying cash for school don't have to fill out FAFSA do they? I get they've broken other laws.
    The Hollywood parents were paying bribes to get their kids accepted into schools. They hadn't even got to the FAFSA part. Their kids didn't qualify for the school admission standards so they were paying schools off to say they kids were recruited athletes who could be accepted under the athletic student 'quota'.

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
    - Gandalf the Grey

    ________________________________



    Foo Time

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    The Hollywood parents were paying bribes to get their kids accepted into schools. They hadn't even got to the FAFSA part. Their kids didn't qualify for the school admission standards so they were paying schools off to say they kids were recruited athletes who could be accepted under the athletic student 'quota'.

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
    That was one method. Another was to pay to have their child's SAT/ACT score revised to provide a "better" chance of being accepted into the selected university. The two actresses mainly involved, Lori Loughlin and her husband when the athletic route to the tune of $500,000 while Felicity Huffman went the SAT/ACT route to the tune of $15,000.

    This has been going on for quite some period of time. What is going to be interesting is to see what the universities are going to with the students who have already graduated. If they have graduated, they obviously (unless UNC is part of the probe) have completed the work for the degree, regardless of how they got into the university. As long as they paid for their admittance into the university and completed the requirements for a degree, can the university take the degree away from the student? What if the student did not even know what his/her parents were doing behind the scenes?

    Fun Times we live in.

    ZagDad

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    4,198

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    That was one method. Another was to pay to have their child's SAT/ACT score revised to provide a "better" chance of being accepted into the selected university. The two actresses mainly involved, Lori Loughlin and her husband when the athletic route to the tune of $500,000 while Felicity Huffman went the SAT/ACT route to the tune of $15,000.

    This has been going on for quite some period of time. What is going to be interesting is to see what the universities are going to with the students who have already graduated. If they have graduated, they obviously (unless UNC is part of the probe) have completed the work for the degree, regardless of how they got into the university. As long as they paid for their admittance into the university and completed the requirements for a degree, can the university take the degree away from the student? What if the student did not even know what his/her parents were doing behind the scenes?

    Fun Times we live in.

    ZagDad
    I'm probably naive, but I thought big donors who pay all their money above board had influence and can get a lot of things they want, including getting their child into the school. The admissions scandal is under the table, but the result is the same. I'm not excusing either one, so I guess all I'm saying is that I thought colleges and universities have always in the pockets of people

    (Good line about UNC, btw

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,952

    Default

    I am pretty sure that money doesn't buy access.....or influence......this is a merit based color blind society...with equal opportunity for all and privilege for none....to coin a phrase...right ?

    Or was George Carlin right when he made his video...." it is a big club, and you ain't in it "

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    7,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    The Hollywood parents were paying bribes to get their kids accepted into schools. They hadn't even got to the FAFSA part. Their kids didn't qualify for the school admission standards so they were paying schools off to say they kids were recruited athletes who could be accepted under the athletic student 'quota'.

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
    I get that.

    My question is can a student enroll in college without ever having to fill out a FAFSA? Kid has rich parents doesn't seek any aid.

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    I'm probably naive, but I thought big donors who pay all their money above board had influence and can get a lot of things they want, including getting their child into the school. The admissions scandal is under the table, but the result is the same. I'm not excusing either one, so I guess all I'm saying is that I thought colleges and universities have always in the pockets of people

    (Good line about UNC, btw
    There was a story several years ago about a Hollywood director/producer who had a set of twins that wanted to go to Duke. The twins were decent students (B to B+) but certainly did not meet the academic achievements of the average freshman student entering Duke, yet they got in. The study found that certain, highly affluent universities, (some Ivy league schools, Duke, Vanderbilt, etc. were identified in the study) gave bonus points to certain applicants based on items such as (children of past graduates, children of large donors, children of large potential donors, etc.). One month after the twins of the Hollywood director/producer were accepted into Duke, he held a fund raiser for Duke that raised over $2 million dollars.

    While the practice is certainly good for the University's endowment bottom line, nobody is too keen on wanting this practice to be known to the general public. We can't have the general public thinking that the reputation for elite education could be diluted by acknowledging the school is willing to accept "lesser" quality students for money.

    I don't know that a "mere $500,000 could "buy" you a slot into a prestigious university, but there is talk that somebody (reportably Chinese??) paid $6.5 million for a couple of slots into an Ivy league school. For $6.5 million, I am sure you could have legally bought your way into almost university.

    The funny thing is that I don't see USC or UCLA as elite or prestigious universities. When this story first came out, I checked the average USC entering freshman statistics and other than the USC acceptance rate, the average statistics for the entering freshman are not significantly different than those for Gonzaga.

    To each their own, I guess,

    ZagDad

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,952

    Default

    I think the 6.5....was to get into Stanford …… well worth it.....if I had 6.5 million...

    The money was a charitable contribution to Rich Singers organization to help the less fortunate...

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    sierra foothills
    Posts
    12,548

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    Snark has become the standard for comments on the Internet.....Those matters get settled in court...not on twitter...
    LOL

    they are settled in the court of public opinion. are you even alive today?

  19. #94
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,952

    Default

    I don't know what the hell you are talking about....so that makes at least two of us...

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    sierra foothills
    Posts
    12,548

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I don't know what the hell you are talking about....so that makes at least two of us...
    That's all you got? LOL

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    6,952

    Default

    Yup...my mistake...it won't happen again...

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    14,771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    I get that.

    My question is can a student enroll in college without ever having to fill out a FAFSA? Kid has rich parents doesn't seek any aid.
    I'm not sure. I would check with LIZF, his work touches on admissions.



    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

    ETA:

    Did quick check. Technically FAFSA only needs to be submitted if you are applying for any federal academic program; scholarships, grants, work-study, loans, etc. However, most schools and many other organizations providing assistance (including the NCAA) use the FAFSA as a common application.
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
    - Gandalf the Grey

    ________________________________



    Foo Time

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •