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Thread: The Hands of Texas Tech

  1. #1
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    Default The Hands of Texas Tech

    Texas Tech is not loaded with NBA athleticism.
    handsi-ness is a program priority and can be taught to good athletes.
    There is no question it disoriented nearly every team they played.
    My question is, with the present structure of the rules and referee tradition this year,
    why wouldn't every ranked team adopt this priority?
    Not saying I have an answer, not even saying its an educated question,
    just saying I wonder if top teams do not make this a program priority, I wonder why not?

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    I despise the "they won't call every foul so grabbum boys" style of basketball... how about some refs with BALLS that call the game by the book... there were so many fouls in that game... it wasn't basketball it was a mugging... that is not basketball as it was meant to be played... it is a game about offense... Refereeing is a lost art and has become subjective to the individuals doing it and not the rules of the game. watching a Tech player go through BC's back down his arm to knock the ball away and nothing was called because the tech player hit the ball cleanly so the refs deemed it a clean play... that was just one of many times the Zags got mugged in that game... It's the old there not gonna call them all BS... It is my biggest peeve about the game today... and riles me up every time I think about how the game I love has been bass-turd-ized and demeaned by refs who don't call games by the rule book....

    Just my opinion...

    Go!! Zags!!!
    "Learn from the past, Plan for the future, Live in the Now!"

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    Freedom of movement was supposed to be an emphasis last year, and it seemed to be that way during the season. It’s hard for a team to adjust, in my opinion, when the game is suddenly called differently in March. I was never coached at a high level, which is a major caveat, but I was taught to do exactly the opposite of what they do because it invites foul calls.

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    I am not a official....but I believe slapping at the ball or grabbing it is not a foul unless you hit the other player...….. hand or arm or whatever...

    As long as you only hit the ball, it is legal.....risky...but legal....

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    I watched the TT game about two weeks after it was over. Sure, there were many frustrating parts of the game, but none more so than the five minute sequence in the first half, as we recovered from a deficit to get to a 24-22 lead. Watch that part of the game again-- we were crushing them and kept missing bunnies or taking stupid shots or whatever--we should have gotten ourselves staked to a 10 point lead by the time momentum switched, but it didn't happen. Most of the rest of the game was even-- I have very few complaints about the officiating, etc. But that five minute sequence in the 1st half ultimately proved fatal. I really did not complain about the officiating until later :-)

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    NCAA tourney games are called differently for the most part, similar to the last 60 seconds of a regular season game all game long.

    Just imagine how the WCC refs would call a game/team like Texas Tech.

    4 players would foul out by halftime in our so-called "finesse/shooting" conference.

    I have never been of the belief our conference itself hurts us, but the way refs officiate or over-officiate our games vs lesser opponents, or finesse shooting teams holds us back from being a full on power team, or implementing a defense like Texas Tech. Would never be allowed that style in WCC...Big 12 or Big 10....sure.

    I do feel guys like Rui regressed a bit due to the lack of physicality from January to March. He is a player who is/was most impressionable and adapted to the pure face up game ue played with down the stretch. Kinda the same idea.

    I made a comment during Vegas that Rui never posted up anymore, which rang true in MCAA Tourney play. He quit "banging" underneath" in February because he could score with ease on facing up and driving or shooting easy jumpers vs smaller players.

    Take a moment and watch the Duke game. Rui's 2nd, 3rd, & 4th basket were on sealing his man in the post and using his body to score. He got pushed around but fought and scored several post moves.

    Around January, we saw maybe 1 or 2 per game. By March, there was a post mocking mine in the game thread where Rui scored ONE basket on a post up play.

    By NCAA time, we saw him face up every possession. Hey, it worked sometimes, talented enough to take advantage of mis matches or hit a smooth jumper. Important to score in different ways, versatile, etc.

    The point being, bad habits were developed in WCC play due to the style of play and also how the refs officiate the League games.

    This part of Rui's game all but disappeared when it was efficient vs equally talented teams. And also, refs would whistle us for playing overly physical.

    Unless you are Brandon Clarke who just flew over and around everyone all the time.

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    Virginia plays very good positional defense and fouls less than just about anybody in the NCAA. That’s the kind of defense I would be interested in seeing GU play. To give Texas Tech credit, they flow well, move to the ball, and help each other on defense. My friend and I were comparing them during the GU game to an amoeba (in a good way) in the sense that they change shape as a unit out there and everybody seems to know where everybody else is supposed to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    Virginia plays very good positional defense and fouls less than just about anybody in the NCAA. That’s the kind of defense I would be interested in seeing GU play. To give Texas Tech credit, they flow well, move to the ball, and help each other on defense. My friend and I were comparing them during the GU game to an amoeba (in a good way) in the sense that they change shape as a unit out there and everybody seems to know where everybody else is supposed to be.
    They also have guys who sell out to team defense. We missed a ton of easy shots and committed a bunch of unforced turnovers. Missed opportunities killed us more than anything. We will be back...they probably won't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigblahla View Post
    I despise the "they won't call every foul so grabbum boys" style of basketball... how about some refs with BALLS that call the game by the book... there were so many fouls in that game... it wasn't basketball it was a mugging... that is not basketball as it was meant to be played... it is a game about offense... Refereeing is a lost art and has become subjective to the individuals doing it and not the rules of the game. watching a Tech player go through BC's back down his arm to knock the ball away and nothing was called because the tech player hit the ball cleanly so the refs deemed it a clean play... that was just one of many times the Zags got mugged in that game... It's the old there not gonna call them all BS... It is my biggest peeve about the game today... and riles me up every time I think about how the game I love has been bass-turd-ized and demeaned by refs who don't call games by the rule book....

    Just my opinion...

    Go!! Zags!!!
    Reffed a game a couple weeks ago where I could tell the coach took that approach as his team was uber aggressive on D using hands...my partner and I just kept calling em, got to bonus with 2 minutes in the 1st period, he is ranting and raving about foul count being 7-2 and "call it even" look at him and just say "you guys are fouling more"...he has a look of "you can't say that"...dude is having a full court trapping slapping press, it's like come on man, you know what your doing. The kicker is he is getting so mad that the "lemming" parents are on his same train of "the refs are against us" that they are screaming just because he is being a dumbarse, it's fun too watch

    People get so caught up in team foul count that ANY disparity obviously means the fix is in...when in reality, your coach is putting them in bad situations
    I am working on being a more all around square.

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    Was that when our early entries were something like 2-14?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZagWhoShotLibertyValance View Post
    I watched the TT game about two weeks after it was over. Sure, there were many frustrating parts of the game, but none more so than the five minute sequence in the first half, as we recovered from a deficit to get to a 24-22 lead. Watch that part of the game again-- we were crushing them and kept missing bunnies or taking stupid shots or whatever--we should have gotten ourselves staked to a 10 point lead by the time momentum switched, but it didn't happen. Most of the rest of the game was even-- I have very few complaints about the officiating, etc. But that five minute sequence in the 1st half ultimately proved fatal. I really did not complain about the officiating until later :-)

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    Lots of coaches emphasize smothering defense, deflections and that "handsy" style of play. Louisville under Pitino was seriously coached to make deflections. They had a deflection goal for every game and tried hard to achieve it. Lots of teams aspire to do it, but not many teams have the skilled guards that can pull it off night after night and not foul out of games. It's a tedious slow paced game that I'm glad GU doesn't play, but I'm not saying we couldn't work on getting more deflections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigblahla View Post
    I despise the "they won't call every foul so grabbum boys" style of basketball... how about some refs with BALLS that call the game by the book... there were so many fouls in that game... it wasn't basketball it was a mugging... that is not basketball as it was meant to be played... it is a game about offense... Refereeing is a lost art and has become subjective to the individuals doing it and not the rules of the game. watching a Tech player go through BC's back down his arm to knock the ball away and nothing was called because the tech player hit the ball cleanly so the refs deemed it a clean play... that was just one of many times the Zags got mugged in that game... It's the old there not gonna call them all BS... It is my biggest peeve about the game today... and riles me up every time I think about how the game I love has been bass-turd-ized and demeaned by refs who don't call games by the rule book....

    Just my opinion...

    Go!! Zags!!!
    I've watched it ten times or more and I get more angry with it each time. I'd have to agree on every point you made my friend, it was truly frustrating to see what TT got away with. The whistle happy refs of WCC are a detriment to our league and especially certain players who get called for being in the neighborhood (Karno and Tillie). I used my DVR and spent hours photographing screen shots of crazy mauling with no calls. Not a few, it was dozens upon dozens, some with the ref looking right at it and nothing. The laying over the back thing was ridiculous. Missing that "save" foot that was way out of bounds et al..
    I guess that doesn't fall under the "LUCK" part of advancing.

    Gonzaga belonged in the NC game this year IMO
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    I watched the recorded game twice, and honestly came to the conclusion that the refs didn't cost us the game. It was a really, really close game, Exciting as heck right to the end. Games that are close like this one come down to making shots at the end of the game. Zags missed theirs and Texas Tech made theirs. And the made TT shots at the end (two 3's by their best 3 point shooter) were the difference. And the shooter was unguarded. The ending to this game reminded me of the ending to our loss To Tennessee, very poor defense of the 3 point shot. Gonzaga could have won that game but they didn't. There was no guarantee that the Zags would get to the Final Four. There never is one for any team. Tennessee, UNC, Duke, Florida State, Villanova, Michigan, Kentucky, ect did not make it. IMO Gonzaga was NOT good enough to make it. However, being in the Final 8 is really fantastic. We may have been the 5th or 6th best team in the country. Pretty dang good.

    Sure, Yeah I was disappointed. Really disappointed. Like you I believed they could be national champs. In the end I was wrong. The team certainly had deficiencies which I noted during the season. And the inconsistent 3 point shooting was one of them. And in the end it certainly hurt us on a night we were off. As was noted all year, turnovers also really hurt us at times, and it did that night too.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Agree 100% Reborn

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    No desire to argue on the matter, and I have huge respect for a former player in Reborn but do want to make a compelling point. It is entirely true we had our chances at the end and did not execute by making our shots, just exactly like the Tennessee game as pointed out. The momentum shifting events based upon missed or really bad calls do matter. When that "save" happened with the guy's foot a good 10" out of bounds occurred it was a killer. We were on a roll and that moment was important as were others throughout the game that may have given us a durable lead in the end and possibly survive our own letdown.
    Not saying we would have won, not at all but a strong maybe.
    Also: " There never is one for any team. Tennessee, UNC, Duke, Florida State, Villanova, Michigan, Kentucky, ect did not make it. Absolutely agree. However I do believe the Zags were good enough to make it.
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    Any of the EE could have won it.....it is a crap shoot.....get a call or two....make some baskets....the best team doesn't always win...

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    It might do many Zag fans here wonders to look up the rules and pay close attention to the one about fouls... different eyes see different things but the rules are the rules... and that game was not officiated correctly when it comes to contact... subjective officiating is BS.... personally I'd like to see teams fouled out due to excessive contact and let the game be what it was meant to be an offensive showcase... defense is played with the feet and body, the hand can only touch the offensive player on his hand if it is on the ball... the defensive player may not move forward and initiate contact with the offensive player from behind at any time... this is a foul.... All the hip check bumps on screens are fouls... and to throw away the "Freedom of Movement" concept instituted over the year for the tournament was ludicrous... TT was a good team but had "Freedom of Movement" and the rules actually been observed IMO the outcome would have been different.

    Why have rules if you don't go by them? Calling it both ways has nothing to do with the rules of the game... it takes the game flow out of the hands of the players... if one team commits 3 times as many fouls, they should suffer the consequences.. kudos to you Zagsker..

    Just my opinion

    Go!! Zags!!!
    "Learn from the past, Plan for the future, Live in the Now!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrizZAG View Post
    Not saying we would have won, not at all but a strong maybe.
    Also: " There never is one for any team. Tennessee, UNC, Duke, Florida State, Villanova, Michigan, Kentucky, ect did not make it. Absolutely agree. However I do believe the Zags were good enough to make it.
    The teams I mentioned were good enough to make the Final Four also. Unfortunately, these teams and Gonzaga didn't make it. However, there's no shame in being included in this group of teams.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigblahla View Post
    It might do many Zag fans here wonders to look up the rules and pay close attention to the one about fouls... different eyes see different things but the rules are the rules... and that game was not officiated correctly when it comes to contact... subjective officiating is BS.... personally I'd like to see teams fouled out due to excessive contact and let the game be what it was meant to be an offensive showcase... defense is played with the feet and body, the hand can only touch the offensive player on his hand if it is on the ball... the defensive player may not move forward and initiate contact with the offensive player from behind at any time... this is a foul.... All the hip check bumps on screens are fouls... and to throw away the "Freedom of Movement" concept instituted over the year for the tournament was ludicrous... TT was a good team but had "Freedom of Movement" and the rules actually been observed IMO the outcome would have been different.

    Why have rules if you don't go by them? Calling it both ways has nothing to do with the rules of the game... it takes the game flow out of the hands of the players... if one team commits 3 times as many fouls, they should suffer the consequences.. kudos to you Zagsker..

    Just my opinion

    Go!! Zags!!!
    I also feel that the officiating can, and did, make a difference. The Refs started by calling the game tight on TT, then suddenly, those fouls weren't called anymore. The rules are in place and the game should be called using those rules.

    I am NOT saying that Gonzaga would have won if the fouls were called. They also might not have won if TT had played with 6 men on the floor. Both involve rules that should be enforced.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    The teams I mentioned were good enough to make the Final Four also. Unfortunately, these teams and Gonzaga didn't make it. However, there's no shame in being included in this group of teams.

    Go Zags!!!
    Perfectly stated! We only dreamed of being at that level not that many years ago. That early season Maui performance made me a big believer in this team. FF is always tough, very tough isn't it?
    To Fish & Game: Keep streams stocked well for Mr. Few!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I am not a official....but I believe slapping at the ball or grabbing it is not a foul unless you hit the other player...….. hand or arm or whatever...

    As long as you only hit the ball, it is legal.....risky...but legal....
    - actually it is not a foul to strike the hand when said hand is in contact with the ball, the hand is considered part of the ball........I was once a basketball official.

    - that said any slap on the wrist or forearm at anytime is a foul.

    - my pet peev is the good block of a shot when the hand is stuck while in contact with the ball. the announcers on replay always say opps look, that was a good call, hit the shooters hand....argh.

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    Thanks....my pet peeve is when the offensive player seeks contact with the defensive player..... who then gets called for a blocking foul..
    Last edited by bartruff1; 04-26-2019 at 03:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    I also feel that the officiating can, and did, make a difference. The Refs started by calling the game tight on TT, then suddenly, those fouls weren't called anymore. The rules are in place and the game should be called using those rules.

    I am NOT saying that Gonzaga would have won if the fouls were called. They also might not have won if TT had played with 6 men on the floor. Both involve rules that should be enforced.
    6 guys on the floor... you may be onto something to try in a March

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    Meh it was a month ago. I chalk it up as bad luck and move onto next season. Got the Gonzaga mentality! Go zags!
    21 Straight Big Dances

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    2 Winningest Players in college basketball history (Karnowski 137, Perkins 134)

    The Best Point Guard to ever play the game: John Stockton, most assists, most steals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    Thanks....my pet peeve is when the offensive player seeks contact with the defensive player..... who then gets galled for a blocking foul..
    I wish I could get the gif on this one, it was priceless.
    Somewhere in the last two years of Karnowski's career he was moving from the free throw line towards the basket, GU was defending, and a driving guard crashed into Karno's back. Karno never saw him. The player fell down and Karno didn't seem to move an inch. Karno was called for the foul. It was a hilarious clip of video, and I would love to get it on my hard drive. The call was so outrageous but we won anyway.

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