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Thread: Norvell Declares

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagfan1 View Post
    I am skeptical of Norvell staying in the draft after he gets his evaluations from the NBA. However, there is one other potential angle to this. If he is close to graduating he may want to play professionally no matter (full time without school) what as a way to move forward. Draft status may not be as big of a concern and he may be thinking he may have reached his ceiling already. We will see what happens at the deadline for opting back in.
    Of course.....It is ridiculous to think that anyone in here knows more about his draft prospects that he does...... or knows what his circumstances are …...or what his motives are....

    There is more than one way to skin a cat...... and there are a variety of ways improve your game and improve your prospects for the NBA than just another year at Gonzaga....I think he knows what he is doing........

  2. #77
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    I would never begrudge a young man for testing the draft waters. He will gain valuable feedback regarding his professional prospects. If the feedback suggests that he has a chance to be drafted and earn an NBA roster spot, that would be an amazing opportunity to do something we have all dreamed about doing. If the draft process suggests that he is not ready, he can still learn useful information about aspects of his game that need improvement. Either way, it will help him make an informed decision regarding an important life decision.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter View Post
    The kid is an academic Junior, been in the program 3 years. If he was going to improve drastically handling the ball and taking better shots it should have already happened. I don't think we would see huge improvements in his game if he came back. And then next year he would be a year older and still have the same problems he has now. I think right now is the top of his draft ceiling. And if he can turn that into a 2nd round pick good for him. If he decides to come back good for us.
    This.
    A kid like Norvel, who has been playing high level basketball since he was 12 or 13 years old, has already spent thousands of hours on ball handling drills etc. Another summer of dribbling around cones for an hour a day isn't going to dramatically improve his ball handling.

    I had heard during the season that he was eager to move on from college ball and take head on the challenges that come with trying to make it in the pros.

    Best of luck young man,

  4. #79
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    Good LUCK to him in all his future endeavors...if he returns great...if not then thanks for the memories...Beating OSU last year was on his shoulders!!!

  5. #80

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    More power to you, Zach Norvell. If you don't come back, here's a toast to you for all you've given to us Zags fans, and may all your pro dreams come true. You will be missed.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter View Post
    The kid is an academic Junior, been in the program 3 years. If he was going to improve drastically handling the ball and taking better shots it should have already happened. I don't think we would see huge improvements in his game if he came back. And then next year he would be a year older and still have the same problems he has now. I think right now is the top of his draft ceiling. And if he can turn that into a 2nd round pick good for him. If he decides to come back good for us.
    Best post in the thread imo. He will turn 22 early next season, and the NBA is infatuated with drafting young guys w/ "potential". Realistically, there's little a guy like ZN can do that's gonna improve his stock at this point.

    Isaiah Thomas is a good example of how the decision is made. He went pro after 3 years at UW because even if he had had an AA sr year, he still was gonna b 5'8 or 9, and couldn't have increased his draft stock. And he became an allstar before his injury issues. All or Oregon's top underclassmen left after 2-3 years for the mid second round, and all 3 made it. Either you can play at that level or you can't, regardless of where you're drafted.

    Most players who go pro will do it at the non-NBA level and still make great money compared to the average working stiff, and there's a very finite window to make that money. And Zach already missed a season w/ a gimpy knee, which makes the finiteness of that career span (if I can coin a word) very real to him. He might have a dozen more years of high level play in him, or he might have one or two. Again, see Isaiah Thomas. It only makes sense for a player to stay if there's something concrete that player can improve on.

    The new G League pay structure makes it possible for a kid to stay in the States and still make 125k, which is about 121K more than his cost of living stipend in college.

    Much as all of us fans would like to see guys like Zach and Killian stay, it makes sense for them to go.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagsker View Post
    Did he send out a "presser" like ZN?
    That might be a question of personal style. JW3 is not as brash as Zach.

  8. #83
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    Not surprised. Get it while you can.

    Good Luck. Thanks for the memories.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    But factual. We shouldn't be jumping on each other over stating actual facts. If you can find ANY mock that has him first round, then please share it.

    That aside.... Look at it this way...second round means they see potential but needs work. I'd say if he weren't showing up in the second round at all then he shouldn't declare. This is a perfect chance for him to see what they see as needing to be worked on. Listen, if he gets hints of 1st round, he'll likely stay in, but this is honestly the smartest thing in the world for him to do. I would not be remotely surprised if the coaching staff recommended it to him.
    I was making a joke about getting mocked. Corny I know.

  10. #85
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    Zach has played 2 years at Gonzaga. He's been to a S-16 and an E8. Why wouldn't he test the waters??? I'd do it in a heartbeat if I were invited. It's a valuable thing to get an assessment. And as Coach Few has always said, the feedback the players tends to jive with what the Gonzaga coaches are saying, and despite what some people might think, it jives with Gonzaga's "team" goals. I have no doubt that you will see NBA scouts, coaches, etc., say to Snacks, "We need for you to develop a better mid range game." "We need for you to attack the basket more. Especially with the way you absorb contact well. Shooting 87% from the foul line leads to a lot of points in our league. Moreover, it will lead to better 3 pt shots."

  11. #86
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    I'm going to go on record as honestly believing in ZN's NBA dream. He has the size, athleticism and fearlessness to make it and I think he will. All of his 3pt shots were from NBA range already, so no adjustment needed!

  12. #87
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    I think he should test the waters. Nothing to lose.

    However, should he return , he would become more of the offensive focal point next year. Might give him the boost to get in earlier in first round.

    In the end there is money out there in Europe , G legue etc.... But I think the investment of 1 more year at GU will pay him the highest return. Whatever he chooses I wish him well.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by maynard g krebs View Post
    Best post in the thread imo. He will turn 22 early next season, and the NBA is infatuated with drafting young guys w/ "potential". Realistically, there's little a guy like ZN can do that's gonna improve his stock at this point.

    Isaiah Thomas is a good example of how the decision is made. He went pro after 3 years at UW because even if he had had an AA sr year, he still was gonna b 5'8 or 9, and couldn't have increased his draft stock. And he became an allstar before his injury issues. All or Oregon's top underclassmen left after 2-3 years for the mid second round, and all 3 made it. Either you can play at that level or you can't, regardless of where you're drafted.

    Most players who go pro will do it at the non-NBA level and still make great money compared to the average working stiff, and there's a very finite window to make that money. And Zach already missed a season w/ a gimpy knee, which makes the finiteness of that career span (if I can coin a word) very real to him. He might have a dozen more years of high level play in him, or he might have one or two. Again, see Isaiah Thomas. It only makes sense for a player to stay if there's something concrete that player can improve on.

    The new G League pay structure makes it possible for a kid to stay in the States and still make 125k, which is about 121K more than his cost of living stipend in college.

    Much as all of us fans would like to see guys like Zach and Killian stay, it makes sense for them to go.
    Excellent reasoning. Very compelling.

    The only counter is the kid that truly does improve - a lot - from another year, and goes from that "mid 2nd round" to mid/late first round, and your initial contract makes up whatever money you "lost" by coming back.

    Dunno how many of those are out there. I do know that there are a million 6'5 guys with mid-athleticism who can shoot/score in the NBA, and he never played point yet, so I am not sure that he couldn't improve if he was to be called on to do it.

    Again, excellent post, a lot to chew on and re-think, but it's not quite as obvious as you might make it seem - in my mind.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    Excellent reasoning. Very compelling.

    The only counter is the kid that truly does improve - a lot - from another year, and goes from that "mid 2nd round" to mid/late first round, and your initial contract makes up whatever money you "lost" by coming back.

    Dunno how many of those are out there. I do know that there are a million 6'5 guys with mid-athleticism who can shoot/score in the NBA, and he never played point yet, so I am not sure that he couldn't improve if he was to be called on to do it.

    Again, excellent post, a lot to chew on and re-think, but it's not quite as obvious as you might make it seem - in my mind.
    I don't necessarily think it's that clearly the right decision. Just presenting the "pro" side, no pun intended, of the argument. What the kids currently thinking, or at least my approximation of it. I preferred the days when kids played 4 years of college, personally.

  15. #90
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    I honestly don't have the data, but I'm guessing there are very few players who forgo college eligibility for a European Professional Career. Of course, we have a notable exception in Gonzaga history in Nigel Williams-Goss. But, I think he was drafted in the second round and didn't make the final roster of the Utah Jazz.

    Zach is a wonderful college player and I'm glad he is on our team. I don't think he is going to be told that he will be drafted and my guess is he'll get good advice and then come back to play out at least one more year of his college eligibility.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by maynard g krebs View Post
    Best post in the thread imo. He will turn 22 early next season, and the NBA is infatuated with drafting young guys w/ "potential". Realistically, there's little a guy like ZN can do that's gonna improve his stock at this point.

    Isaiah Thomas is a good example of how the decision is made. He went pro after 3 years at UW because even if he had had an AA sr year, he still was gonna b 5'8 or 9, and couldn't have increased his draft stock. And he became an allstar before his injury issues. All or Oregon's top underclassmen left after 2-3 years for the mid second round, and all 3 made it. Either you can play at that level or you can't, regardless of where you're drafted.

    Most players who go pro will do it at the non-NBA level and still make great money compared to the average working stiff, and there's a very finite window to make that money. And Zach already missed a season w/ a gimpy knee, which makes the finiteness of that career span (if I can coin a word) very real to him. He might have a dozen more years of high level play in him, or he might have one or two. Again, see Isaiah Thomas. It only makes sense for a player to stay if there's something concrete that player can improve on.

    The new G League pay structure makes it possible for a kid to stay in the States and still make 125k, which is about 121K more than his cost of living stipend in college.

    Much as all of us fans would like to see guys like Zach and Killian stay, it makes sense for them to go.
    I completely agree with a couple small caveats. There are a few reasons, even for an older player, to stick around an extra year. One example is Karnowski. He wasn't going to improve his draft stock at that age by staying another year. For him, the access to fantastic healthcare probably played a roll as he rehabilitated his back. I know ZN isn't in the same boat, but go pro and play somewhere in Asia or Europe and there isn't the same type of support as GU would provide if there is an injury. A lot of players end up on their own in that scenario. Second, is what Dixie already hit on. There is a chance, even if small, that a player has a transformative season. That chance is increased where a new opportunity opens up. I actually thin ZN has the chance to play PG and/or be the Guy on a team, which is a different opportunity than he has had. He could show something he hasn't yet had the opportunity to show. But we don't need to debate that.

    Third, there are plenty of players, that we forget about, who have marginal ability, but stick with a program continuing to build connections that play a role when the player is done playing basketball. I don't know if ZN wants to be a commentator or an assistant coach, or physical therapist, investment banker, coffee stand owner, etc ... but much of life and financial success (regardless of your profession) is about the relationships you build. Building them in the Israeli or Turkish League is fine, but maybe not as desirable as staying a little longer and continuing to build them at GU. And that is a financial decision as well since a lot of players will end up playing ball for three or four season and end up working in another industry for 35 or 40 years after that.

    And fourth, there is something about the college experience, even if you are passing up 100k to play somewhere on the other side of the planet. The college experience may not offset a million dollars to play in a pro league somewhere, but I could see a certain type of player, from time to time at least, valuing staying in college and getting a degree over a year's salary.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    I honestly don't have the data, but I'm guessing there are very few players who forgo college eligibility for a European Professional Career. Of course, we have a notable exception in Gonzaga history in Nigel Williams-Goss. But, I think he was drafted in the second round and didn't make the final roster of the Utah Jazz.

    Zach is a wonderful college player and I'm glad he is on our team. I don't think he is going to be told that he will be drafted and my guess is he'll get good advice and then come back to play out at least one more year of his college eligibility.
    Agree. The reason Euros come to play top level US college ball is to get into the NBA. If they want a Euro career, they stay in the Euro club system, it is designed for that.
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  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    It’s just soooo unlikely for him to get into the NBA, all we can do is wish him the best of luck (he’s going to need it) and hope he comes to his senses while he can. Love snax. Really do!
    David Stockton proves that there is always a chance.

  19. #94
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    I might be granted a “Nobel Prize for Medicine” too..... oh wait!!!!!

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    One thing I havent seen mentioned in favor of his return (I havent read every comment so apologies if this has been mentioned) but the 2020 draft is supposed to be fairly weak. the Athletic put out a 2020 mock draft today that had Zach in the first round. if he comes back and shows he is capable of playing PG without Perkins around and improve shis 3 pt % a bit he could definitely be a first rounder

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgadfly View Post
    I completely agree with a couple small caveats. There are a few reasons, even for an older player, to stick around an extra year. One example is Karnowski. He wasn't going to improve his draft stock at that age by staying another year. For him, the access to fantastic healthcare probably played a roll as he rehabilitated his back. I know ZN isn't in the same boat, but go pro and play somewhere in Asia or Europe and there isn't the same type of support as GU would provide if there is an injury. A lot of players end up on their own in that scenario. Second, is what Dixie already hit on. There is a chance, even if small, that a player has a transformative season. That chance is increased where a new opportunity opens up. I actually thin ZN has the chance to play PG and/or be the Guy on a team, which is a different opportunity than he has had. He could show something he hasn't yet had the opportunity to show. But we don't need to debate that.

    Third, there are plenty of players, that we forget about, who have marginal ability, but stick with a program continuing to build connections that play a role when the player is done playing basketball. I don't know if ZN wants to be a commentator or an assistant coach, or physical therapist, investment banker, coffee stand owner, etc ... but much of life and financial success (regardless of your profession) is about the relationships you build. Building them in the Israeli or Turkish League is fine, but maybe not as desirable as staying a little longer and continuing to build them at GU. And that is a financial decision as well since a lot of players will end up playing ball for three or four season and end up working in another industry for 35 or 40 years after that.

    And fourth, there is something about the college experience, even if you are passing up 100k to play somewhere on the other side of the planet. The college experience may not offset a million dollars to play in a pro league somewhere, but I could see a certain type of player, from time to time at least, valuing staying in college and getting a degree over a year's salary.
    Really good points. Thanks.

  22. #97
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    I think the idea that Norvell couldn't improve his draft stock by coming back is absurd. He will have a chance to be the main guard and possibly run this team. If he shows NBA scouts he can capably do this it would increase his value immensely.
    At the moment he isn't a lock to even be drafted let alone make a team (it is tough for second round picks to make a team). With so little invested by the team its easy for the team to move on from a second round player.
    If he was to move his way on up to the first round thats a big deal and could make the difference between making a team or not. Those claiming he has nothing to gain by coming back are being way too over the top. I get we are in a new era were players move on early but that doesn't mean that its the best choice for every player.

  23. #98
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    It’s much easier to gain confidence at being a part time point at the college level than the pro level. He’s not a point, but those skills getting developed are what might be the difference between him being successful at the next level or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kong-Kool-Aid View Post
    David Stockton proves that there is always a chance.

    David Stockton has played 40 minutes in the nba more than you or I have. Probably 40 minutes more than anyone on this board expected him to, but I think he’s received too little actual run in the NBA to be used as a shining example that anyone can make it...

  25. #100
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    Zach Norvell will be back next year. Just my OPINION. Why worry!

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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