2021 - Chet Holmgren

[kitzbuel]

There should be relegation in basketball. Things would be much more interesting in the NBA if losing meant you went to an under league. There’s no way Philadelphia unleashes tankapalooza for 5 years. Seattle would also get a team, and a few East coast teams might have to go down to the lower league.

Tell you what, Mal. The more I watch European soccer, the more of a fan of relegation I become. It definitely deters owner complacency. Top level teams can never overlook a bottom-feeder because the bottom-feeders are fighting for their lives every single game.

[webspinnre]

I love promotion/relegation, but there's no way US owners would ever approve that. They wouldn't be willing to risk losing major revenue by being relegated. E-sports tried to do something like this and went to franchising instead of promotion/relegation.

[EEzag]

I hate the G League too. I would much prefer a solution like this. Why? People disagree with me, but I stand by my position.

1) The entire goal of the G league is to GET OUT OF IT. Meanwhile, you have basketball, the most cooperative sport that there is. 7 things often have to occur for LeBron to get a one second look at a jumper. Who wants to spend their time setting screens in the G league. It's not going to get you into the NBA.

2) I have been to several G League games. Small crowds and local area people who have zero emotional investment in their team because their players can be taken away from them at any time. There is no chance for fans to development a player/fan relationship.

3) Because players are being brought up and down, there is zero emotional impact when it comes to winning and losing basketball games. Winning a championships means nothing. Not when the team's center can be called up before a big game. Players playing in big games in front of large audiences in front of fans whose emotional investment in their players and teams is HUGE is the single most underrated developmental aspect in the game of basketball. When you lose a key game, you SHOULD feel miserable. Feeling miserable makes players want to be better players so they do not have to feel that way feel again. Losing sucks.

This is my most controversial take, but I will stand by it until the day I perish. I guarantee you that Mark Few, Bob McKillop, Tom Izzo, and Randy Bennett are better basketball coaches than anyone who coaches in the G League. I don't care what anyone says. Why? Most of their college players are not pros, and their ability to be teachers of the game is so much more refined and developed due to it. They MUST develop players or they lose their job. Most G League coaches are former NBA staffers who used to only care about preparing for the next game. They have to change their orientation more towards teaching the game than preparing for games. They lack experience. The point of the G league should be to develop players, and that includes keeping teams intact through an entire season so that winning games MATTERS. I have known a couple of NBA players, when asking an assistant for help on their jumper, were told: "Hire someone, this isn't remedial school. I have game tape to look at it." Both men had million+ contracts. I am sorry, but I trust Mark Few to develop a player more than any coach in the G league because player development has been his primary job ever since he signed on as an assistant at GU. The guy is a teacher of the game. I hate the G League. If you wanna ditch college, go into the draft or play in Europe.

There was a time when high school basketball was considered supremely more well coached than AAU. It still is to some extent, but which structure gets the press and the fanfare when it comes to these kids? It’s AAU by a mile. I don’t believe GL is better coached, but when it comes to one and done talent, it doesn’t seem as significant. That’s what we are talking about right? Guys who would have the kind of talent to go straight to the NBA but CANNOT because they are not allowed to? GL sounds smells looks and feels like a college aged AAU. I don’t like it either, but it is inevitable.

[TheOtherGreatOne]

AAU basketball lessens the importance of winning. It does not promote teamwork. It is all about who you can dunk on. Basketball fundamentals are non-existant. AAU basketball is why these kids come into college with an entrage of hangers on trying to make a quick buck off of these kids. In my opinion AAU basketball is ruining the game. Coach Few has mostly kept from this type of kid, and recruits kids who have actual basketball skills, that is why he continues to beat the big boys year after year, abd these other supposed great coaches have still not figured that out, and can't believe it when they loose to the Zags.

[WRHUradio]

AAU basketball lessens the importance of winning. It does not promote teamwork. It is all about who you can dunk on. Basketball fundamentals are non-existant. AAU basketball is why these kids come into college with an entrage of hangers on trying to make a quick buck off of these kids. In my opinion AAU basketball is ruining the game. Coach Few has mostly kept from this type of kid, and recruits kids who have actual basketball skills, that is why he continues to beat the big boys year after year, abd these other supposed great coaches have still not figured that out, and can't believe it when they loose to the Zags.

BINGO BINGO BINGO

I have hated the AAU thing for close to 20 years now.

What the AAU hype train has done is make the supposed Top 50, top 10 type talents be not as good and flawed compared to past generations.
Yes, they might be more athletically gifted, but they are NOT more skilled, and certainly have less idea about how to play really good 5 on 5 team basketball when all the talent is even all-around.

What also happens is the kids that are ranked very high when they are young, start to believe in that hype and not work and think they are all going to play in the NBA. They get passed by late bloomers or kids that outworked the kid that was ranked No. 20 in the class just 3 years earlier.

Another untold story is the ages of the kids. Many, many of the so-called Top 50-type elite talents are actually a year+ ahead of the grade they are actually in, usually this was on purpose when they were younger. Ie: Why be a top 100 player in your grade you actually belong to if you were just a student, when you can "reclassify" and drop down 1 year, and become a top 20 player in the class. This happens very often in Football especially.

Karl-Anthony Towns was on this plan, and then RETURNED to his original grade because they saw he was elite.

I get very annoyed at the whole "reclassifying" thing because many times the kids failed out of a grade, but reclassified is a PC way of saying he got left back. That 1 year difference is very huge. You think I wouldnt have loved to have been an 18 year old senior in HS picking up girls vs being 16 & 17 as a senior? And then competing in athletics against someone like that?

Seton Hall MBB today just got a commitment from a 20-year old freshman from the Congo via Canada. Different story of course since he is a foreign national so likely started school at a different academic level, but this kid is still OLDER than Joel Ayayi!! (this also shows just how extremely special Ayayi is as a person and player)

What Coach Few and co. have done, is IDENTIFY who is legit good, and who is NOT/overhyped/an easy target to be bought by shady programs/not a team player.
This in itself is a massive story.

We would all love to see what Coach Few's Class of 2020 Top 100 is and compare it to rivals.com etc. This would be fascinating reading.

[StatZag19]

Chet chats with Evan Daniels & rattles off schools that are prioritizing him. Names GU among a bunch of Big 10 schools.

https://twitter.com/EvanDaniels/stat...756838400?s=19

"I was going to wait until toward the end of AAU to cut my list down to about eight or 10 schools but then this coronavirus thing hit so I’m at a loss right now for what to do. I don’t know if we’re still going to have AAU or if it will be canceled altogether, I have no idea. Definitely thinking of cutting my list sometime in early fall, then will probably make one more cut down the road and then make my decision early spring or late winter."

[phxfireflames]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-holmgren-more

It is going to take a tremendous effort by Pitino and his staff to fend off some of the best recruiters in the business, but they can win over Holmgren with the allure of achieving success in his home state.

[TheOtherGreatOne]

How can he have success in Minnesota, when no one else does ? University of Minnesota is just not a place where stars are made.

[LTownZag]

How can he have success in Minnesota, when no one else does ? University of Minnesota is just not a place where stars are made.

That's like saying Buddy Hield couldn't be a star at Oklahoma state, or Trae Young at Oklahoma, or Ja Morant at Murray state or Obi Toppin at Dayton or Dan dickau at Gonzaga or...

[23dpg]

That's like saying Buddy Hield couldn't be a star at Oklahoma state, or Trae Young at Oklahoma, or Ja Morant at Murray state or Obi Toppin at Dayton or Dan dickau at Gonzaga or...

[TheOtherGreatOne]

That's like saying Buddy Hield couldn't be a star at Oklahoma state, or Trae Young at Oklahoma, or Ja Morant at Murray state or Obi Toppin at Dayton or Dan dickau at Gonzaga or...

Well let me ask you a question. When was the last time you saw a Buddy Hield, Ja Morant, Obi Toppin, or Dan Dickau come from the university of Minnesota ? That is what I thought, you can't. They just don't produce star basketball players, never have. I guess you could say Lou Hudson, and Archie Clark, but that was all the way back when I was a kid, and I am an old man. I can't remember anyone since.

[LTownZag]

Well let me ask you a question. When was the last time you saw a Buddy Hield, Ja Morant, Obi Toppin, or Dan Dickau come from the university of Minnesota ? That is what I thought, you can't. They just don't produce star basketball players, never have. I guess you could say Lou Hudson, and Archie Clark, but that was all the way back when I was a kid, and I am an old man. I can't remember anyone since.

You are missing the point.
“University x has not produced a star player” is always true until it isn’t.

Damian Lillard at Weber State, steph curry at Davidson, etc.

Has not yet or Has not recently is not equal to “is incapable of”.

[zagfan08]

I think you can say that about Gonzaga to an extent. GU is now trying to get these top recruits but we’ve only had one top 5 pick and he was out of the league in five years. So similarly, we’re looking for a guy to take us to a level we haven’t been before in terms of NBA talent. Hopefully that’s Chet and/or Paolo.

[Zagdawg]

I'm thinking Stockon as one of the best NBA guards took us to a pretty high level.

[GuZag2012]

Well let me ask you a question. When was the last time you saw a Buddy Hield, Ja Morant, Obi Toppin, or Dan Dickau come from the university of Minnesota ? That is what I thought, you can't. They just don't produce star basketball players, never have. I guess you could say Lou Hudson, and Archie Clark, but that was all the way back when I was a kid, and I am an old man. I can't remember anyone since.

I realize the Gophers have not produced many huge stars lately but I'd say that Kevin Mchale would qualify as a star player.

In the last 20 years though I agree very little NBA talent. Daniel Oturu has a chance to be a 1st round pick this year but before that the last solid NBA players were Kris Humphries, Joel Pryzbilla, Bobby Jackson & Voshon Leonard. Lots of talent coming through the MN high school ranks lately but very few of the top guys actually stay in state


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[TheOtherGreatOne]

I realize the Gophers have not produced many huge stars lately but I'd say that Kevin Mchale would qualify as a star player.

In the last 20 years though I agree very little NBA talent. Daniel Oturu has a chance to be a 1st round pick this year but before that the last solid NBA players were Kris Humphries, Joel Pryzbilla, Bobby Jackson & Voshon Leonard. Lots of talent coming through the MN high school ranks lately but very few of the top guys actually stay in state


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I forgot about McHale, and Mychael Thompson was also on that team, he was pretty good too, but that was a long time ago. I don't think playing for little petino would be in Holmgren's best interest, and I don't see him going there.

[sittingon50]

Dave Winfield?

[TheOtherGreatOne]

Dave Winfield?

Winfield was a baseball player, he was not that good of a basketball player. He was one of those Minnesota idiots that attacked the Ohio State players. If that were to happen today those Minnesota players would have been locked up for assault. That was one of the most stupid things that I have ever seen the entire time I have been watching college basketball, and I have been watching for a long time.

[bdmiller7]

Winfield was a baseball player, he was not that good of a basketball player. He was one of those Minnesota idiots that attacked the Ohio State players. If that were to happen today those Minnesota players would have been locked up for assault. That was one of the most stupid things that I have ever seen the entire time I have been watching college basketball, and I have been watching for a long time.

Just good enough to be drafted by the NBA and ABA.

[sittingon50]

Just good enough to be drafted by the NBA and ABA.

This.

[TheOtherGreatOne]

This.

he nba and aba
You aparentley did not see Winfield play basketball. He was not very good at it. The nba and aba each had 10 or 12 draft rounds back then, and everyone got drafted, it didn't matter if they could play or not. Winfield was drafted in basketball because he was a good athlete, not because he was good at it. He was also drafted by the nfl even though he didn't even play football. I can tell you never watched him play basketball. He was not even the best player on that basketball team, but he was one of those idiots that attacked the Ohio State basketball players, and ruined a very promising basketball career of Luke Witte, who was never the same after he was assaulted on the court in front of everyone.

[sittingon50]

You are correct GreatOne, I actually never saw him play. As a baseball fan I have only heard of his basketball exploits over the years. 10.5 PPG as an underclassman in the Big10 seemed decent to me. Am not familiar at all with the Ohio St. incident. I will defer to you.

And now I will attempt to no longer hijack a Chet Holmgren thread.

[bdmiller7]

One thing Holmgren has mentioned several times is looking at the depth chart and waiting to see who his competition will be for playing time. I think that could work against GU. If Timme, Watson, Zakharov, Ballo, and even Strawther and Arlauskas, are still with GU Chet is going to be battling some really good Vets for playing time. Even as a top 5 recruit that's a tough lineup to crack, especially needing to develop so much physically. Now Minnesota doesn't have that problem. He could walk in and start from day one. As a top 5 recruit he's not trying to develop into a draft pick, he is a lottery pick already, he's just wanting the exposure in the one year he has to wait to get drafted. It really doesn't matter where he plays college, he will be a lottery pick in 2022.

[Bogozags]

One thing Holmgren has mentioned several times is looking at the depth chart and waiting to see who his competition will be for playing time. I think that could work against GU. If Timme, Watson, Zakharov, Ballo, and even Strawther and Arlauskas, are still with GU Chet is going to be battling some really good Vets for playing time. Even as a top 5 recruit that's a tough lineup to crack, especially needing to develop so much physically. Now Minnesota doesn't have that problem. He could walk in and start from day one. As a top 5 recruit he's not trying to develop into a draft pick, he is a lottery pick already, he's just wanting the exposure in the one year he has to wait to get drafted. It really doesn't matter where he plays college, he will be a lottery pick in 2022.

I think it is really early to determine his placement in the draft but he won't have competition from Ballo, who I believe will be here for this season...Timme, depending on how much they have improved since last season and IF he has been able to develop a 3pt shop, could also be gone after next season. Watson had really bad luck with his shoulder BUT if he comes back stronger and also develops a 3pt shot could also be gone...Strawther and Arlauskas I believe will be SF's so he will have to either play at the PF and SF positions...Zach had limited playing time but still became a lottery pick so it just depends on how he is able to compete against outstanding college athletes...IMO

[Mr Vulture]

I think it is really early to determine his placement in the draft but he won't have competition from Ballo, who I believe will be here for this season...Timme, depending on how much they have improved since last season and IF he has been able to develop a 3pt shop, could also be gone after next season. Watson had really bad luck with his shoulder BUT if he comes back stronger and also develops a 3pt shot could also be gone...Strawther and Arlauskas I believe will be SF's so he will have to either play at the PF and SF positions...Zach had limited playing time but still became a lottery pick so it just depends on how he is able to compete against outstanding college athletes...IMO

Ballo is not going to play nearly as much as some think from what I’ve heard. He has huge upside but he is going to be here two more years. I’d expect flashes from him but he’s looking at 15-20 minutes a game at best. Think Rui development plan but in the post. He will definitely help this year.

As for Timme, I’d expect a big step up but I’d say the odds of him heading to the NBA after this year for him are low. Sure, he could declare to get feedback.

Watson is going to be a real player but he’s almost zero in terms of leaving for the NBA after this year.