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Thread: Zags and Declaring for the Draft

  1. #226
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    https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Ba...eTeamRankings/

    Of players coming in, the Zags have more at the 3-5 spots than any of the other top teams. They DON"T have any 5 stars, but lots of 4 stars.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Ba...eTeamRankings/

    Of players coming in, the Zags have more at the 3-5 spots than any of the other top teams. They DON"T have any 5 stars, but lots of 4 stars.
    I noticed we're currently #1 for 2020.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Ba...eTeamRankings/

    Of players coming in, the Zags have more at the 3-5 spots than any of the other top teams. They DON"T have any 5 stars, but lots of 4 stars.
    Mildly interesting data points from the site -

    No other WCC team with a 4-star recruit. USC is the only California team that is recruiting well (similar to Gonzaga) with 2 x 5-stars and 2 x 4-stars. Not including USC, all other California-based schools have 2 x 4-star recruits combined (Pac 12 and WCC) with Stanford and UCLA having 1 x 4-star recruit respectively.

    I initially thought that the CA-based schools were to blame for letting all the local talent go but it looks like there aren't that many 4-star+ players coming from CA. According to ESPN top 100 for 2019, only 9 are from CA (WA has 4 for comparison). * Small sample size, inconsistent metric, etc..

    This snapshot reinforces what most people say already: basketball is not really a CA strength as it compares to population. With so many schools in CA, they end up cannibalizing each other from the small pool. I don't see the PAC 12 or WCC improving as conferences anytime in the near future unless they take on the GU model using pipelines from far away locations.

    It all shows how incredible the GU profile is.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    I noticed we're currently #1 for 2020.
    What's the connection with JS and Florida? Both FSU and Gators with offers...could just be coincidental, just thought odd
    I am working on being a more all around square.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagsker View Post
    What's the connection with JS and Florida? Both FSU and Gators with offers...could just be coincidental, just thought odd
    Suggs is one”cool’” dude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post

    Gonzaga MIGHT have one of the 5 best in the West along with Arizona, Oregon, Washington, probably New Mexico, USC...… .

    Oregon has only Okoro returning on the front line. White, King, Norris, Wooten all gone. A couple 4 star fr coming in. They'll be lucky to end up w/ one of the top 5 front courts in the Pac alone. New Mexico? Really?

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    New Mexico State...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    New Mexico State...
    Really good catch, bart. They'll have 8 seniors on their roster next year, from a team that lost to Auburn by 1.

    For those who have never been to Las Cruces, it has a lot to offer potential recruits. Like Spokane, the Aggies are the only game in town, and Las Crucens love their Aggies. The PanAm Center holds nearly 12,500, and their crowds are loud. The population has nearly doubled since I lived in El Paso, to about 100,000.

    Las Cruces is about an hour north of El Paso, and only charter aircraft fly to and from Las Cruces Intl Airport. IOW, it is far more isolated than Spokane. The isolation is great for gym rats, but getting 4 star players to go there can be a real challenge.

    I've been to games at NMSU, albeit a couple of decades ago. It's where my future bride and I attended our first game together, an experience she'd like to forget...lol.

    Getting a high quality OOC opponent like St. Mary's is about the best they're going to get. You'll never see a power conference send a team there, unless they got or 2 for 1...and even then, it's doubtful.

    For perspective, it took Don Haskins (and we know his place in college hoops history) to give a 2 for 1 to bring Georgetown to UTEP. It was "no mas" after that, as UTEP took two out of three from the Hoyas.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    New Mexico State...
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Really good catch, bart. They'll have 8 seniors on their roster next year, from a team that lost to Auburn by 1.

    For those who have never been to Las Cruces, it has a lot to offer potential recruits. Like Spokane, the Aggies are the only game in town, and Las Crucens love their Aggies. The PanAm Center holds nearly 12,500, and their crowds are loud. The population has nearly doubled since I lived in El Paso, to about 100,000.

    Las Cruces is about an hour north of El Paso, and only charter aircraft fly to and from Las Cruces Intl Airport. IOW, it is far more isolated than Spokane. The isolation is great for gym rats, but getting 4 star players to go there can be a real challenge.

    I've been to games at NMSU, albeit a couple of decades ago. It's where my future bride and I attended our first game together, an experience she'd like to forget...lol.

    Getting a high quality OOC opponent like St. Mary's is about the best they're going to get. You'll never see a power conference send a team there, unless they got or 2 for 1...and even then, it's doubtful.

    For perspective, it took Don Haskins (and we know his place in college hoops history) to give a 2 for 1 to bring Georgetown to UTEP. It was "no mas" after that, as UTEP took two out of three from the Hoyas.
    They could be, but best in the WAC doesn't compare to the WCC...still, I'll give you one.

    Next?
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  10. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    You have ignored my request. Top ten simply means that there are not 10 better front courts in the NCAA next year. I am including the 3 in that. It is not top ten front courts in history, just next year.

    Name the top ten front courts that are better than Gonzaga, in the NCAA, next year. I just don't know of 10 better ones.

    Even the traditional blue bloods have had huge turnover.
    why would you include the 3 in a discussion about front courts??? no one does...just doesn't make any sense other than the fact that the zags have a surplus of players so it better fits your narrative...

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallaWallaZag View Post
    why would you include the 3 in a discussion about front courts??? no one does...just doesn't make any sense other than the fact that the zags have a surplus of players so it better fits your narrative...
    Don’t stop him. He’s on a roll.

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    As talented as our incoming class is, they can't yet be compared to that 2016-2017 front line of Karno, J3, and Zach Collins.

    Unrelated, but it says a lot about Rui that he was named "Small Forward of the Year", while playing the vast majority of his minutes at the 4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WallaWallaZag View Post
    why would you include the 3 in a discussion about front courts??? no one does...just doesn't make any sense other than the fact that the zags have a surplus of players so it better fits your narrative...
    They aren't back court and Watson can play the 4 as can Kispert.

    Where would YOU include them with Watson and Kispert sometimes playing the 4?

    Jazz likes it because he won't actually address the question, so don't take that as a positive.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  14. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    They aren't back court and Watson can play the 4 as can Kispert.

    Where would YOU include them with Watson and Kispert sometimes playing the 4?

    Jazz likes it because he won't actually address the question, so don't take that as a positive.
    the average 3 in college is under 6'4 (and no, i don't have a link)...obviously that number likely goes up in the power conferences but still, the sf is much more of a backcourt position than a frontcourt position. kispert plays much more like a guard than a forward and i definitely wouldn't make the argument that kispert can play the 4....it certainly doesn't help your stance. that's like saying norvell can play the point...sure but, really? not in any normal situation, only out of necessity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WallaWallaZag View Post
    the average 3 in college is under 6'4 (and no, i don't have a link)...obviously that number likely goes up in the power conferences but still, the sf is much more of a backcourt position than a frontcourt position. kispert plays much more like a guard than a forward and i definitely wouldn't make the argument that kispert can play the 4....it certainly doesn't help your stance. that's like saying norvell can play the point...sure but, really? not in any normal situation, only out of necessity.
    So you want them to be backcourt and I see them as front court. If it doesn't help MY case, it sure doesn't help yours.

    If the 3 spot in college is under 6'4" , and ours are 6'6" or taller, that also doesn't make your case., but if you want, leave Kispert and Martynas out.

    Who has a better front court. New Mexico State has been named, and because they have a lot of returning talent I agreed. That talent wasn't good enough for WCC teams, especially the Zags, but OK.

    Name some more, please.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    ESPN draft analysis has Brandon as the THIRD best prospect in the draft........wow and a 27% chance of being an all star my how his stock has risen

    Rui not in top 30---has him slated at 44

    Norvell not on the draft board

    Tille was ranked 23rd in this blog

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    I really did believe that Zach Norvell would be back playing in a Zag uniform. I felt he wasn't ready for the NBA. I'll admit that I was disappointed that he decided to leave a very good situation at Gonzaga for the NBA, or as it may turn out, for Europe.

    On the other hand, it sure is nice to see that Tillie is coming back. It's a really great decision, and it shows his intelligence. I like the how a blogger stated something like a Gonzaga education and degree is gold.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Well put, Bornie. Norvell marching to the sound of his own drummer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    I really did believe that Zach Norvell would be back playing in a Zag uniform. I felt he wasn't ready for the NBA. I'll admit that I was disappointed that he decided to leave a very good situation at Gonzaga for the NBA, or as it may turn out, for Europe.

    On the other hand, it sure is nice to see that Tillie is coming back. It's a really great decision, and it shows his intelligence. I like the how a blogger stated something like a Gonzaga education and degree is gold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    So you want them to be backcourt and I see them as front court. If it doesn't help MY case, it sure doesn't help yours.

    If the 3 spot in college is under 6'4" , and ours are 6'6" or taller, that also doesn't make your case., but if you want, leave Kispert and Martynas out.
    pretty clearly the 3 should be considered part of the backcourt. few basically always plays a 3 ballhandler/2 big setup (which is why elias and wiltjer at the 3 never stuck). look at the players who actually have played the 3 for the zags since 2010: bouldin, gray, hart, bell, dranginis, wesley, mathews, norvell... kispert and arlauskas are a little taller, but they are clearly in that mold, and few's requirements and usage of his 3rd ballhandler is definitely more like how he uses his guards than his F/Cs. and it's not remotely close.

    but you are right that kispert could play the 4 in a pinch (much like barham did).

    eta: i don't care about the broader argument you two were having.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Well put, Bornie. Norvell marching to the sound of his own drummer.
    And so is Tillie....

  21. #246
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    The days of a Gonzaga bball Senior are going to be few and far between.

    Guys like Kispert, probably/maybe Ravet will likely be lone seniors, yet most of our players/prospects/recruits who log playing time (even bench guys) will be long gone by their Senior year.

    Feels odd to consider but it's our new reality.

  22. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by soccerdud View Post
    pretty clearly the 3 should be considered part of the backcourt. few basically always plays a 3 ballhandler/2 big setup (which is why elias and wiltjer at the 3 never stuck). look at the players who actually have played the 3 for the zags since 2010: bouldin, gray, hart, bell, dranginis, wesley, mathews, norvell... kispert and arlauskas are a little taller, but they are clearly in that mold, and few's requirements and usage of his 3rd ballhandler is definitely more like how he uses his guards than his F/Cs. and it's not remotely close.

    but you are right that kispert could play the 4 in a pinch (much like barham did).

    eta: i don't care about the broader argument you two were having.
    I also see Watson playing some at the three.

    I agree though with what you are saying, Few generally uses a 3 guard type line-up, but Kispert was never a primary ball handler last year, he was a small forward leaning towards PF and pretty much the same with JJ.

    I don't really feel like I was having an argument. I stated that I think that the Zags frontcourt will be one of the best in college hoops this coming year, and when they disagreed with me, I asked which teams would be better.

    Only one possibility was offered, New Mexico St, from the WAC, and only because they are returning a large number of their 4-5 players.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  23. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goshzagit View Post
    The days of a Gonzaga bball Senior are going to be few and far between.

    Guys like Kispert, probably/maybe Ravet will likely be lone seniors, yet most of our players/prospects/recruits who log playing time (even bench guys) will be long gone by their Senior year.

    Feels odd to consider but it's our new reality.
    I think to be a successful program they will need a mix. Most FF/ NC teams seem to have a couple one and dones mixed with 2 or 3 veterans. Villanova and Kansas seem to hang onto players who may be bottom NBA talent that don't bolt at the first chance. Especially at the guard position. Hopefully Gonzaga can continue with a mix of veterans with a few top 50 players each season.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  24. #249

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    So you want them to be backcourt and I see them as front court. If it doesn't help MY case, it sure doesn't help yours.

    If the 3 spot in college is under 6'4" , and ours are 6'6" or taller, that also doesn't make your case., but if you want, leave Kispert and Martynas out.

    Who has a better front court. New Mexico State has been named, and because they have a lot of returning talent I agreed. That talent wasn't good enough for WCC teams, especially the Zags, but OK.

    Name some more, please.
    i think you've confused me with someone else with your passion regarding your argument...i've never refuted your stance as i'm in the wait and see camp regarding where the zags stack up (though now that tillie looks like he's back, i have no problem with top 10 and possibly top 5 - if he stays healthy). my point was that no one here was really including the 3 in the discussion about frontcourts, especially if you are focusing on the zag collection of bigs...so it's really not a you or me thing. if rui was playing the 3, i would have no problem with your argument. kispert? not so much.
    Last edited by WallaWallaZag; 05-30-2019 at 09:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WallaWallaZag View Post
    you're obviously confused with your passion regarding your argument...i've never refuted your stance as i'm in the wait and see camp regarding where the zags stack up (though now that tillie looks like he's back, i have no problem with top 10). my point was that no one includes the 3 in any discussion about frontcourts and it's not really a you or me thing...it's basically industry standard.
    I don't think it's as cut and dry as you suggest.

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