Zags and Declaring for the Draft

[jazzdelmar]

Well put, Bornie. Norvell marching to the sound of his own drummer.

I really did believe that Zach Norvell would be back playing in a Zag uniform. I felt he wasn't ready for the NBA. I'll admit that I was disappointed that he decided to leave a very good situation at Gonzaga for the NBA, or as it may turn out, for Europe.

On the other hand, it sure is nice to see that Tillie is coming back. It's a really great decision, and it shows his intelligence. I like the how a blogger stated something like a Gonzaga education and degree is gold.

[soccerdud]

So you want them to be backcourt and I see them as front court. If it doesn't help MY case, it sure doesn't help yours.

If the 3 spot in college is under 6'4" , and ours are 6'6" or taller, that also doesn't make your case., but if you want, leave Kispert and Martynas out.

pretty clearly the 3 should be considered part of the backcourt. few basically always plays a 3 ballhandler/2 big setup (which is why elias and wiltjer at the 3 never stuck). look at the players who actually have played the 3 for the zags since 2010: bouldin, gray, hart, bell, dranginis, wesley, mathews, norvell... kispert and arlauskas are a little taller, but they are clearly in that mold, and few's requirements and usage of his 3rd ballhandler is definitely more like how he uses his guards than his F/Cs. and it's not remotely close.

but you are right that kispert could play the 4 in a pinch (much like barham did).

eta: i don't care about the broader argument you two were having.

[bartruff1]

Well put, Bornie. Norvell marching to the sound of his own drummer.

And so is Tillie....

[Goshzagit]

The days of a Gonzaga bball Senior are going to be few and far between.

Guys like Kispert, probably/maybe Ravet will likely be lone seniors, yet most of our players/prospects/recruits who log playing time (even bench guys) will be long gone by their Senior year.

Feels odd to consider but it's our new reality.

[willandi]

pretty clearly the 3 should be considered part of the backcourt. few basically always plays a 3 ballhandler/2 big setup (which is why elias and wiltjer at the 3 never stuck). look at the players who actually have played the 3 for the zags since 2010: bouldin, gray, hart, bell, dranginis, wesley, mathews, norvell... kispert and arlauskas are a little taller, but they are clearly in that mold, and few's requirements and usage of his 3rd ballhandler is definitely more like how he uses his guards than his F/Cs. and it's not remotely close.

but you are right that kispert could play the 4 in a pinch (much like barham did).

eta: i don't care about the broader argument you two were having.

I also see Watson playing some at the three.

I agree though with what you are saying, Few generally uses a 3 guard type line-up, but Kispert was never a primary ball handler last year, he was a small forward leaning towards PF and pretty much the same with JJ.

I don't really feel like I was having an argument. I stated that I think that the Zags frontcourt will be one of the best in college hoops this coming year, and when they disagreed with me, I asked which teams would be better.

Only one possibility was offered, New Mexico St, from the WAC, and only because they are returning a large number of their 4-5 players.

[White lightning]

The days of a Gonzaga bball Senior are going to be few and far between.

Guys like Kispert, probably/maybe Ravet will likely be lone seniors, yet most of our players/prospects/recruits who log playing time (even bench guys) will be long gone by their Senior year.

Feels odd to consider but it's our new reality.

I think to be a successful program they will need a mix. Most FF/ NC teams seem to have a couple one and dones mixed with 2 or 3 veterans. Villanova and Kansas seem to hang onto players who may be bottom NBA talent that don't bolt at the first chance. Especially at the guard position. Hopefully Gonzaga can continue with a mix of veterans with a few top 50 players each season.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[WallaWallaZag]

So you want them to be backcourt and I see them as front court. If it doesn't help MY case, it sure doesn't help yours.

If the 3 spot in college is under 6'4" , and ours are 6'6" or taller, that also doesn't make your case., but if you want, leave Kispert and Martynas out.

Who has a better front court. New Mexico State has been named, and because they have a lot of returning talent I agreed. That talent wasn't good enough for WCC teams, especially the Zags, but OK.

Name some more, please.

i think you've confused me with someone else with your passion regarding your argument...i've never refuted your stance as i'm in the wait and see camp regarding where the zags stack up (though now that tillie looks like he's back, i have no problem with top 10 and possibly top 5 - if he stays healthy). my point was that no one here was really including the 3 in the discussion about frontcourts, especially if you are focusing on the zag collection of bigs...so it's really not a you or me thing. if rui was playing the 3, i would have no problem with your argument. kispert? not so much.

[sonuvazag]

you're obviously confused with your passion regarding your argument...i've never refuted your stance as i'm in the wait and see camp regarding where the zags stack up (though now that tillie looks like he's back, i have no problem with top 10). my point was that no one includes the 3 in any discussion about frontcourts and it's not really a you or me thing...it's basically industry standard.

I don't think it's as cut and dry as you suggest.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1283511-power-ranking-the-top-15-starting-frontcourts-in-the-nba#slide0

https://bustingbrackets.com/2018/08/26/ncaa-basketball-top-25-frontcourts-for-2018-19/2/

[WallaWallaZag]

I don't think it's as cut and dry as you suggest.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1283511-power-ranking-the-top-15-starting-frontcourts-in-the-nba#slide0

https://bustingbrackets.com/2018/08/...for-2018-19/2/

agreed, especially if you are including the nba...so i edited my wording even before you posted to reflect the argument as related to the zags and especially kispert...despite his solid size for a 3, he plays exclusively on the perimeter...almost 70% of his shots taken were from the the 3 and i don't recall a single play in the paint, so...

i think if tillie had been healthy this past year, rui would have been given the chance to actually play real minutes at the 3 and yeah, zags would have easily had the best starting frontcourt (including the 3) in the nation...of course just rui and brandon clarke alone were probably the the best frontcourt in the nation (without considering the 3 spot) and many pundits made that argument, not just zag fans.

my point was that when anyone talked about the zags "frontcourt" this past year, i don't think kispert was really a part of the discussion (rui, bc, tillie and even petrusev were).

[sonuvazag]

agreed, especially if you are talking nba...so i changed my wording a bit to reflect the argument as related to the zags and especially kispert...he plays exclusively on the perimeter...almost 70% of his shots taken were from the the 3, so...

In searching for articles under "best frontcourts" almost every one has made a point about how difficult it is to define the term. Here Jones and Kispert were included:

https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/10/30/college-basketballs-top-frontcourts-2/

FWIW, I'm not saying you're absolutely wrong, but maybe cut willandi some slack as it seems there is much discussion in reputable articles that follows his paradigm.

[WallaWallaZag]

In searching for articles under "best frontcourts" almost every one has made a point about how difficult it is to define the term. Here Jones and Kispert were included:

https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/10/30/college-basketballs-top-frontcourts-2/

FWIW, I'm not saying you're absolutely wrong, but maybe cut willandi some slack as it seems there is much discussion in reputable articles that follows his paradigm.

oh, i absolutely have no problem with his original argument, especially if it includes tillie and even without. it just felt like he moved the goalposts a bit by suddenly including the 3 spot when initially the discussion about the "frontcourt" was basically about all the talented incoming freshman "bigs" (plus the returning petrusev) and i don't think the 3 was under consideration.

the 3 spot at gonzaga has almost always been just another guard and i don't think kispert changes that dynamic. if watson ends up playing at the 3, i'll be more than happy to include the 3 as part of the zag "frontcourt"...and i'm very curious to see if it will happen.

[ZagsObserver]

Any update on Perkins and his plans?

Maybe I missed it.

[WallaWallaZag]

Any update on Perkins and his plans?

Maybe I missed it.

he's been working out for nba teams so that's obviously still the ultimate goal...i would hope and expect he could at least make a summer league team, though he probably ends up in europe.

[willandi]

I am confident.

I think that w/o Tillie the Zags will have one of the very best Front courts in College hoops, 3-5. With Tils, the best.

I trust that Gilder and Racet will be able to handle the 1-2 spots but will be nice to have another. BZ has been consistent that there will be another at some point.

oh, i absolutely have no problem with his original argument, especially if it includes tillie and even without. it just felt like he moved the goalposts a bit by suddenly including the 3 spot when initially the discussion about the "frontcourt" was basically about all the talented incoming freshman "bigs" (plus the returning petrusev) and i don't think the 3 was under consideration.

the 3 spot at gonzaga has almost always been just another guard and i don't think kispert changes that dynamic. if watson ends up playing at the 3, i'll be more than happy to include the 3 as part of the zag "frontcourt"...and i'm very curious to see if it will happen.

Included the 3 with the first comment about it.

[exclusivelee]

Analyzing who is expected to return, immediately eligible transfers, incoming recruits, these teams look to have solid frontcouts in 2019-20:

Arizona, Auburn, Baylor, Boston College, BYU, Duke, Florida, Florida State, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisville, LSU, Memphis, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio State, Oregon State, Pepperdine, Purdue, USC, Villanova, Virginia, Washington, Xavier