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Thread: Zags and Declaring for the Draft

  1. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birddog View Post
    Lots of piss and vinegar on this thread. FWIW, I have had my disagreements with Jazz but what he said on Feb 17, 2019 was prescient IMO.




    When this was first posted it gave me pause.
    I agree that Jazz's take was spot-on. Look at the contributions from Jazz's "4 starters" vs "4 subs" in GU's 2 late losses. Apart from a sort of "substitution" this season due to injuries of Tillie for Clarke, it also matches with the general perception of the team pre-season. I think Jazz is perceptive.

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike#1 View Post
    2019 NBA Mock Draft 6.0: Projecting All 60 Picks After March Madness from Jeremy Woo, Sports Illustrated.

    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/2019-nb...131500955.html

    Rui at 14

    14. Celtics (via Kings): Rui Hachimura, PF, Gonzaga

    Height: 6'8" | Weight: 230 | Junior

    There’s some split opinion on Hachimura, but his physical profile will play at the next level and give him a chance to be a contributor simply through effort and development. That aspect of his game is appealing, and while his skill set may have plateaued a bit, his offensive production was impressive. He won’t be able to play bully-ball at the next level, but if his jumper is real then there’s a pathway for him to find a fit. Boston may end up picking four times in the first round, and there should be opportunity to get creative—with Marcus Morris’ contract up, Hachimura could add useful depth at forward.

    Clarke at 23

    23. Jazz: Brandon Clarke, PF, Gonzaga

    Height: 6’8" | Weight: 210 | Junior

    Clarke is a divisive player from scout to scout—some view him as more of a second-round prospect—but his production was impressive all season and should end up carving a spot out for him in the first. His height and skill level pose limitations, and he’s unlikely to create much of his own offense, but it’s easy to see someone buying in on his athleticism, energy and defensive versatility. His upside continues to come into question, but with as good as he was this season, it will be worth someone finding out. Clarke could be a useful bench piece for the Jazz.

    Norvell at 44 - No write up on Norvell

    No mention of Tille




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  3. #178
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    Seems to me the draft experts/analysts are much higher on Clarke than the actual hired scouts are...obviously both parties feel he is talented enough to play in the NBA, but definitely different views.

    This isn't the first time I've heard or read about a writer/expert listing him as a mid 1st round pick in their respective mock draft, yet stating via paraphrase, "although one scout I spoke to questions his _____________, etc".

    I feel it will be tough to predict Brandon's draft position.

    If he shows off an ability to create shots for himself, a jump shot that can be trusted, & measures taller than 6'7" at combine, he could fly up draft boards. I'm just not sure about any of those....

    Either way, Brandon brings enough to the table to secure a 1st Rd pick for some team.

  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    Serious question since you are not the first to accuse me of this, but might be the first to be able to back it up:

    Where have I ever "refused to accept any sort of subjective opinion"? .
    you refused to accept that FSU was wearing teams down becasue of your metrics, yet if you used your lone metric of point margins in the second half, you would have lost your bet 6 out of 9 games in March with FSU, and one game would have been a push (vs. NCSt,). You would have been accurate 2 out of 9 times in March, mainly becasue you refused to watch what FSU was doing down the stretch and instead just applied the numbers. They were a team that was wearing teams down, even though your metrics said they weren't, and when you got called on it, you hemmed and hawed even though statistics you chose backed up the argument against your take.

    there's an example, backed up.

    and it's not that you're a victim being accused...good grief lol

    looking forward to you next hem haw session right now

  5. #180
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    I asked if any evidence supported the narrative that FSU was gaining advantage late by "wearing teams down" when FSU's opponents opponents actually do considerably better in 2nd halves than first halves.

    Did I miss any evidence to support that narrative? Any suggestion of other types of evidence to evaluate that claim about the advantage derives by depth? I'm still open to any data related to their high bench usage having such an effect. If you know of a source for scoring margin by quarter, it would be interesting to see how bench depth correlates with scoring margin in q2 and q4.

    But as far as FSU having better second half margins in their 6 final games, recency bias much? -- I'll stick with numbers from their last 60 games to evaluate a pre-tournament narrative, but also note that due to injuries FSU played an uncharacteristally shallow bench in march. Against GU just 47 bench minutes I believe. They may have finally started having better second halves as they ditched their vaunted bench depth due to extenuating circumstances.
    Last edited by LTownZag; 04-12-2019 at 08:29 AM.

  6. #181
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    Rui and Brandon both need to go. Your stock doesn't go up coming back at their age and getting more players to the NBA helps our program. I hope Rui ends up with the Spurs. That would be a perfect fit to maximize his potential. Norvell could be a second round draft pick this year for sure. Being a second rounder doesn't mean much though. Most of the threes he takes are from behind the NBA three point line. He is one of the best shooters in the history of the program and his passing is under rated.

  7. #182
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    Great post
    Think Big. No think Bigger than that!

  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    Rui and Brandon both need to go. Your stock doesn't go up coming back at their age and getting more players to the NBA helps our program. I hope Rui ends up with the Spurs. That would be a perfect fit to maximize his potential. Norvell could be a second round draft pick this year for sure. Being a second rounder doesn't mean much though. Most of the threes he takes are from behind the NBA three point line. He is one of the best shooters in the history of the program and his passing is under rated.
    He is NOT one of the best shooters in the history of the program. He is not even close.

    https://zagsguru.wordpress.com/welco...ntage-leaders/

    Zach is a good player with the potential to get better. Full Stop.

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    He is NOT one of the best shooters in the history of the program. He is not even close.

    https://zagsguru.wordpress.com/welco...ntage-leaders/

    Zach is a good player with the potential to get better. Full Stop.
    Is ZN the new Bol Kong? More attribution than evidence. Always good to see a KB reference.

  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goshzagit View Post
    Seems to me the draft experts/analysts are much higher on Clarke than the actual hired scouts are...obviously both parties feel he is talented enough to play in the NBA, but definitely different views.

    This isn't the first time I've heard or read about a writer/expert listing him as a mid 1st round pick in their respective mock draft, yet stating via paraphrase, "although one scout I spoke to questions his _____________, etc".

    I feel it will be tough to predict Brandon's draft position.

    If he shows off an ability to create shots for himself, a jump shot that can be trusted, & measures taller than 6'7" at combine, he could fly up draft boards. I'm just not sure about any of those....

    Either way, Brandon brings enough to the table to secure a 1st Rd pick for some team.
    The negs on Clarke are a disinformation campaign. He'll be top 20, no doubt.

  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Is ZN the new Bol Kong? More attribution than evidence. Always good to see a KB reference.
    Can we at least see him break 40% in a season before we call him Dan Dickau????

    Bankhead was a dude.

  12. #187
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    Doug (Spradley) lived across the hall from me in Desmet. I used to dunk on him constantly in Nerf hoops for what it's worth, his program-leading 3 pt. percentage notwithstanding

    Seriously, I'd no idea at the time his %s were that high. Wow!
    Your children have been placed in the custody of...Carl's Jr.

  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    Can we at least see him break 40% in a season before we call him Dan Dickau????

    Bankhead was a dude.
    Not bloody likely, Burnie. KB is my all time #1 fave....we beat TT w/KB out there.

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Is ZN the new Bol Kong? More attribution than evidence. Always good to see a KB reference.
    I don't think so, Jazz. Bol Kong was a one-year bomber. He came and then fled like a thief in the night.
    On the other hand, Zach Norvell is a keeper. People forget that he comes from Chicago, the city that creates tough basketball players. I also think many forget how much good Zach has already done for the program, and how many really awesome memories he's already left here in ZagNation. Zach will be back, and IMO he's going to have one great year, and will be a leader on the team. He's going to have more freedom than ever, and his shooting will thus improve. Zach Norvell is a keeper. I love him. Let's not forget what he did against Florida St and Duke. The Florida St was one of my favorites this year, next to the Duke game of course. I feel Zach has taken unfair criticism by some posters.

    Just my take.

    Go Zags!!!
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    I don't think so, Jazz. Bol Kong was a one-year bomber. He came and then fled like a thief in the night.
    On the other hand, Zach Norvell is a keeper. People forget that he comes from Chicago, the city that creates tough basketball players. I also think many forget how much good Zach has already done for the program, and how many really awesome memories he's already left here in ZagNation. Zach will be back, and IMO he's going to have one great year, and will be a leader on the team. He's going to have more freedom than ever, and his shooting will thus improve. Zach Norvell is a keeper. I love him. Let's not forget what he did against Florida St and Duke. The Florida St was one of my favorites this year, next to the Duke game of course. I feel Zach has taken unfair criticism by some posters.

    Just my take.

    Go Zags!!!
    I met Zach in Vegas. Nicest kids ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    He came and then fled like a thief in the night.
    Nice one.

  17. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by gueastcoast View Post
    Doug (Spradley) lived across the hall from me in Desmet. I used to dunk on him constantly in Nerf hoops for what it's worth, his program-leading 3 pt. percentage notwithstanding

    Seriously, I'd no idea at the time his %s were that high. Wow!
    I hadn't even realized that the 3 pt shot had been put in when he was there. For some reason, my recollection was that Jarrod Davis ushered in the first season with a 3pt shot in the rules. But, I'm wrong.

    My memory must be "fogged" for some reason, of those games in the late 80s, the "down years" prior to the early 90s when everything seemed to ascend. Of course, it couldn't help but ascend bc as I recall in 89, while Dudley, Brown, Goff, and those guys redshirted, IIRC they won like 8 games, and then it really turned around to by 92 IIRC they'd won 20.

    That list was cool and eye-opening.

    But, LadyZag, Zach Norvelle may be one of our best "2" guards ever, in terms of overall game and skills, when one is still 13 places below Gary Bell Jr. on the all time percentage list, and sits at number 32 in all time 3 pt percentage, that is a bit lacking.

    I suppose we should acknowledge that the line has moved out a few feet over the years.

    Anyone else remember (this is offseason talk) when they introduced the 3pt shot, different conferences had different distances, and IIRC it was the ACC that had it inside the very top of the key, preposterously close? Maybe I have it wrong, but one of the majors did.

    I like Miller, the legendary Oregon State coach's response to the 3 pt shot: "If they're giving away 3 points for a shot, it should be for getting a layup out of your halfcourt set. "
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

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    Let's just say Rui, BC and Tillie all stay (extremely slim, I understand)...what does play distribution look like next year? Who, if anyone, RS? I would assume MA and OB
    I am working on being a more all around square.

  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagsker View Post
    Let's just say Rui, BC and Tillie all stay (extremely slim, I understand)...what does play distribution look like next year? Who, if anyone, RS? I would assume MA and OB
    Which newcomer is able to pay for their first year w/o a scholarship? That, to me, would be a huge deciding factor. Next would be, if they can afford to pay (and by that I mean their families), which one would be willing to pay that much?

    If they were not on the roster as a scholarship player, would they redshirt and walk-on or would choose to they be officially on the team, and if they weren't officially on the team, would they be allowed by the NCAA to participate in the Olynyk Clinic?
    I'm laughing. Why aren't you?

  20. #195
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    Scholarships always work out.
    “When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes.”

    ~ Desiderius Erasmus

  21. #196
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    Jon Rothstein

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    Gonzaga's Brandon Clarke tells me that he will stay in the 2019 NBA Draft.

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdawg View Post
    Jon Rothstein

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    Gonzaga's Brandon Clarke tells me that he will stay in the 2019 NBA Draft.
    While it would be nice to have him back, his stock will probably never be higher. There is a logjam at his position, especially if Tillie comes back.

    Can anybody honestly say that they would turn down MILLIONS of dollars to get a $65,000 year toward a masters degree? If you say you would, I think you are being dishonest. Take the money and run.
    I'm laughing. Why aren't you?

  23. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    Which newcomer is able to pay for their first year w/o a scholarship? That, to me, would be a huge deciding factor. Next would be, if they can afford to pay (and by that I mean their families), which one would be willing to pay that much?

    If they were not on the roster as a scholarship player, would they redshirt and walk-on or would choose to they be officially on the team, and if they weren't officially on the team, would they be allowed by the NCAA to participate in the Olynyk Clinic?
    Don't we still have room for one other tx? GZ has promised me personally a fantastic PG tx, bc my needs are extremely important. Snark.

    Anyone else so confident in our staff that we will not be THAT down next year even IF Tillie goes pro?

    I just think they'd make it work somehow.
    Last edited by DZ; 05-26-2019 at 02:14 PM. Reason: Delete moot point.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  24. #199
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    FWIW


    .
    .
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    "thnk god for few" jazzdelmar(12/12/11 12:50pm)
    .
    "When most of us couldn't buy a basket. Where do we get off anyway?!" siliconzag (11/17/06 5:45:41 pm)
    .
    I am monitoring the price of a donut
    .

  25. #200
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    Perhaps more current, FWIW (w/a thank you to ZagNative):

    Quote Originally Posted by ZagNative View Post

    SLOZag
    "Kids come here to better their own lives, not ours. If you take a player’s failures as a personal affront…. check yourself." - Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy

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