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Thread: Zags and Declaring for the Draft

  1. #26
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    If I were Zach I would most definitely test the waters. Get feedback about what is needed and then come back. I'd actually be shocked if he DIDN'T test the waters.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

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  2. #27
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    1 New York Zion Williamson Fr.
    2 Phoenix Ja Morant So.
    3 RJ Barrett Fr.
    4 Chicago Rui Hachimura Jr.

    You mean this one, CD?

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    1 New York Zion Williamson Fr.
    2 Phoenix Ja Morant So.
    3 RJ Barrett Fr.
    4 Chicago Rui Hachimura Jr.

    You mean this one, CD?
    Ugh... please NY Knicks don't blow it by taking Zion. Take Ja, take RJ, take Rui, just not Zion.

    Signed,
    A concerned Knicks fan
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Ugh... please NY Knicks don't blow it by taking Zion. Take Ja, take RJ, take Rui, just not Zion.

    Signed,
    A concerned Knicks fan
    I will go on record and say Zion flames out in the NBA....ala Greg Odom
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzagit View Post
    Are we sure Rui is a Top 20 pick? I know there's still a lot of potential there, but he's look overmatched against good competition. I think the media ran with the high NBA draft pick story line, but I just don't see it. I'm not scouring the NBA draft boards daily, but I would bet you'd be hard pressed to see him consistently Top 15-20. He looks like a mid to late 2nd rounder to me.
    ESPN (Jonathan Givony) has Rui at 16 and Clarke at 22 (to my Blazers!). The Athletic (Sam Vecenie) has Rui at 10 and Clarke 14.

    Both of these mocks were written were pre-tournament. However, I'm not sure either Rui or BC did anything to hurt their stock. Other players may have done more to improve. None of this really matters at this point anyhow, but if the question is whether Rui is still viewed as a top 20 pick? Yes.

    Tillie and Norvell are both absent from both mocks.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    I will go on record and say Zion flames out in the NBA....ala Greg Odom
    You think Zion is going to have repeated debilitating knee injuries? And it's Oden, not Odom.

    Sorry, I'm a Blazers fan triggered by any mention of Greg Oden, Sam Bowie or LaRue Martin.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Ugh... please NY Knicks don't blow it by taking Zion. Take Ja, take RJ, take Rui, just not Zion.

    Signed,
    A concerned Knicks fan
    I'm confused as to why you hate Zion as a draft prospect? He just put together the most efficient season since Anthony Davis with no shooting around him. He's shown great defense, good court vision and most importantly plays hard every single play. Looks to me like he could average 16 and 10 right away without even needing the ball in his hands.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    I will go on record and say Zion flames out in the NBA....ala Greg Odom
    So you think Zion is going to be repeatedly injured in the NBA? The only reason Oden didn't make 10 all-star teams was his health. The guy looked awesome when he was able to play early in his career.

  9. #34
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    As good as Rui is, if he goes high, it will be based on potential. Clarke on the other hand, I think some people are forgetting he is a 6'8 post player. He has a little range, not much, but NBA centers are the guys that blocked Brandon Clarke all year and NBA forwards can shoot and drive. I think he is freaking terrific, but realistically...

  10. #35
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    I don't think Zion will dominate in the same way he has in the NCAA, but barring injury, I don't see any reason he won't be successful.
    I will thank God for the day and the moment I have. - Jimmy V

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    I will go on record and say Zion flames out in the NBA....ala Greg Odom
    You're at least the second prolific participant here to make this claim and I'm curious why you think that. Maybe you're correct but I wonder what you're seeing.

    Oden had major injuries, and his position was basically being phased out from the style of the current NBA.

    Do you think a healthy Zion is an NBA bust? Or is your prediction contingent upon him having major injuries?

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bouldin4Prez View Post
    I'm confused as to why you hate Zion as a draft prospect? He just put together the most efficient season since Anthony Davis with no shooting around him. He's shown great defense, good court vision and most importantly plays hard every single play. Looks to me like he could average 16 and 10 right away without even needing the ball in his hands.
    Here is what I see:

    a) His "skill" is running out and getting dunks. He doesn't post up well at all when he does. Don't believe me, go back and watch any Duke game and remove those transition hoops... see what you end up with.
    b) His "position" through HS/college has been to be a 4 or a 5... where his height would dictate a 2 or 3 at the next level.
    c) He has no idea how to play those positions at all as he has never really had any experience in them.
    d) His weight, his weight, his weight. Perspective here... he's currently roughly the same weight as Shaq during his rookie season but wayyyyy shorter. His body will not serve him well at the next level.
    e) Assuming you put him in the post... his post up skills as stated earlier aren't all that great... doesn't need to be at the college level with his athleticism. But at the NBA level, his "next level athleticism" those players see every game. He'd be eaten alive in the paint.

    I am by no means saying he'll be a bust. But superstar... nuh uh... don't see it happening. I'm not the only one... google for Gilbert Areneas' assessment of him... pretty much mirrors what I have always thought.. TBH... some of the items above came from that because it just solidified what I was feeling but couldn't pinpoint it as well as he did.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by webspinnre View Post
    I don't think Zion will dominate in the same way he has in the NCAA, but barring injury, I don't see any reason he won't be successful.
    He'll be a journeyman and will make solid money and more power to him. As a Knick's fan... I don't want a journeyman at the 1 pick... sorry.

    Ja Morant IMHO is a far better #1 pick. Plays his natural position and literally does everything at a high high level. Surround him with NBA talent and he becomes a superstar.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    He'll be a journeyman and will make solid money and more power to him. As a Knick's fan... I don't want a journeyman at the 1 pick... sorry.

    Ja Morant IMHO is a far better 31 pick. Plays his natural position and literally does everything at a high high level. Surround him with NBA talent and he becomes a superstar.
    Morant, IMO, may very well be a future NBA MVP. He is good!!

  15. #40
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    I could see Zach declaring to test the waters. But doubt he would get an invite. They only invite 60-70 players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Ja Morant IMHO is a far better #1 pick. Plays his natural position and literally does everything at a high high level. Surround him with NBA talent and he becomes a superstar.
    I would agree 100%. I watched about 5 or 6 Murray St games this past season, and there's just something special about Ja.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    He'll be a journeyman and will make solid money and more power to him. As a Knick's fan... I don't want a journeyman at the 1 pick... sorry.

    Ja Morant IMHO is a far better #1 pick. Plays his natural position and literally does everything at a high high level. Surround him with NBA talent and he becomes a superstar.
    Morant is awesome, but defensively he is a major liability at this point. His offense could very well be good enough to outweigh his defensive shortcomings, similar to Lillard. I also think his 3 point shot needs a little bit of work before it will be a major strength in the NBA. Morant to me is clearly the second best prospect in this class. Seems to me like everyone wants to nitpick Zion's flaws but overlook the things he does exceptionally well, which there are a lot of.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Here is what I see:

    a) His "skill" is running out and getting dunks. He doesn't post up well at all when he does. Don't believe me, go back and watch any Duke game and remove those transition hoops... see what you end up with.
    b) His "position" through HS/college has been to be a 4 or a 5... where his height would dictate a 2 or 3 at the next level.
    c) He has no idea how to play those positions at all as he has never really had any experience in them.
    d) His weight, his weight, his weight. Perspective here... he's currently roughly the same weight as Shaq during his rookie season but wayyyyy shorter. His body will not serve him well at the next level.
    e) Assuming you put him in the post... his post up skills as stated earlier aren't all that great... doesn't need to be at the college level with his athleticism. But at the NBA level, his "next level athleticism" those players see every game. He'd be eaten alive in the paint.

    I am by no means saying he'll be a bust. But superstar... nuh uh... don't see it happening. I'm not the only one... google for Gilbert Areneas' assessment of him... pretty much mirrors what I have always thought.. TBH... some of the items above came from that because it just solidified what I was feeling but couldn't pinpoint it as well as he did.
    Could not disagree more. responding to your points:

    a) Very few college freshmen have good footwork in the post. That will be learned. With his strength and leaping ability he will eventually be able to post up every small forward in the league.

    b) and c) A lot more goes into the position you play in the NBA than your height. There are 6-7 pg's and 6-8 pf's, and it has more to do with your body type and skill set, and most importantly with what position you can defend. ZW can defend the 3 and 4 position in the NBA so that is where he will play. One NBA player said that if ZW improves his jumpshot he will be un-guardable in the NBA.

    d) i agree he is too heavy, but he has a very low percentage of body fat, so trimming down might be difficult. If he can get to about 260 and maintain it that would be perfect. Time will tell on that.

    e) You dont see 280 pound guys with 42 inch verticals EVER. There are guys in the NBA that can jump, but none with the Size/quickness combo of ZW. Zion is pretty much one of a kind.

    All that being said, I dont think he is a guaranteed generational player, but I do think he is a can't miss player that will play in some all star games before he is is done. Add that to the fact that he will put butts in the seats and I think the knicks have no choice but to take him

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SorenTodd45 View Post
    I would agree 100%. I watched about 5 or 6 Murray St games this past season, and there's just something special about Ja.
    I know my Knicks... should the ping-pong balls fall their way and they get #1 overall... they will take a blowtorch to it and Weis it. If you don't know what that means... in 1999 the Knicks, with their 15th pick, bypassed future all-star and local SJU talent Ron Artest for Frederic Weis, whom, before the draft had stated quite clearly he has no intention of really playing in the NBA. They never signed him... I know shocker since he said he wouldn't before they even drafted him. Little prince Jimmy Dolan, the owner of the Knicks, will demand Zion because he wants the bright shiny object instead of drafting on pure talent. Sorry for my Knicks rant... carry on.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  20. #45
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    I remember when Portland picked Sam Bowie instead of Michael Jordan.....Zion is the answer....just because something is obvious doesn't mean it is wrong...no need to overthink this...
    Last edited by CDC84; 04-09-2019 at 12:41 PM.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh View Post
    Could not disagree more. responding to your points:

    a) Very few college freshmen have good footwork in the post. That will be learned. With his strength and leaping ability he will eventually be able to post up every small forward in the league.

    b) and c) A lot more goes into the position you play in the NBA than your height. There are 6-7 pg's and 6-8 pf's, and it has more to do with your body type and skill set, and most importantly with what position you can defend. ZW can defend the 3 and 4 position in the NBA so that is where he will play. One NBA player said that if W improves his jumpshot he will be un-guardable in the NBA.

    d) i agree he is too heavy, but he has a very low percentage of body fat, so trimming down might be difficult. If he can get to about 260 and maintain it that would be perfect. Time will tell on that.

    e) You dont see 280 pound guys with 42 inch verticals EVER. There are guys in the NBA that can jump, but none with the Sie/quickness combo of W. Zion is pretty much one of a kind.

    All that being said, I dont think he is a guaranteed generational player, but I do think he is a can't miss player that will play in some all star games before he is is done. Add that to the fact that he will put butts in the seats and I think the knicks have no choice but to take him
    Don't fully disagree with any of that... but JMHO.... he should be a late lottery to just outside the lottery pick. There is better players on his own Duke team in terms of next level talent.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    You're at least the second prolific participant here to make this claim and I'm curious why you think that. Maybe you're correct but I wonder what you're seeing.

    Oden had major injuries, and his position was basically being phased out from the style of the current NBA.

    Do you think a healthy Zion is an NBA bust? Or is your prediction contingent upon him having major injuries?
    his first step is dynamic and is why he has been succesful at the college level.....next level I dont see this as an extreme advantage

    his outside jump shot is a SET shot destined for long armed quick jumpers in nba to block it

    his on ball defense is abismal IMO unless he is allowed to muscle you

    his off ball defense is great and timing is incredible.....however he wont be allowed to float off ball at the next level or he will get burnt

    his primary offensive move is limited to the spin with the chicken wing to gain advantage wont be a consistent move at the next level

    has no mid range game or ability to pull up and shoot and at 6-7 dont see him playing the 4 or 5 spot at the next level

    but this is coming from someone who does not watch or engage in NBA ,.

    he runs flat footed and will be susceptible to injury due to his body type playing the amount of games the nba plays
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Ugh... please NY Knicks don't blow it by taking Zion. Take Ja, take RJ, take Rui, just not Zion.

    Signed,
    A concerned Knicks fan
    You are being sarcastic right?

  24. #49
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    Zions athleticism is so incredible that he will be a multiple time all star. The league has never seen an athlete like him. I would be concerned about him long term though. His weight is not trending well and he does not have a great wingspan. He will still put up some out of control seasons. He has a plus handle for his size and style as well.

    Ja tops out as a few time all star. His shooting is suspect and he is not a good finisher. He also has a poor frame for his playing style. He is an underrated passer.

  25. #50
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    I believe that Zion will be a star in the NBA and don't think his height is a big deal with his strength/athleticism. I think that Morant is a likely star as well and I really like RJ Barrett as potential All Star talent (I see Chris Bosh type player in him). After that, there are many players that could be very good but most have question marks. I like Culver and Rui at the NBA level. I am not as big on Clarke and Hunter at the NBA level. I think that Reddish is waayyy overrated and would benefit by another year of school although that isn't going to happen.

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