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Thread: The WCC has been great for Gonzaga basketball, and it's getting even better.

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    How many WCC games are you actually excited to see per year? Saint Mary's and occasionally BYU?
    Zero

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    How many WCC games are you actually excited to see per year? Saint Mary's and occasionally BYU?
    Itll be super awesome when you and spy both run out of energy and go to bed, you've been on an almost 2 day bender. Convinced that you're either the same person or married to each other. Get some rest you (two?) Itll all be better in the morning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    All of them....won't miss a game....but I would prefer they play a full home and home schedule....
    It really sucks when the expectation is we have to beat each team by 20.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    How many WCC games are you actually excited to see per year? Saint Mary's and occasionally BYU?
    Don’t miss a second of any game. Gameday is best day of the week. If they played 5 from my HS I’d be pumped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pargo the Destroyer View Post
    Itll be super awesome when you and spy both run out of energy and go to bed, you've been on an almost 2 day bender. Convinced that you're either the same person or married to each other. Get some rest you (two?) Itll all be better in the morning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    It really sucks when the expectation is we have to beat each team by 20.
    I don't think you're going to have to worry about that next season, which undoubtedly have peaks and valleys we haven't seen in conference play for several years.

    Get ready for a couple of road games where the students rush the court at the end of the game. It's inevitable that "the streak" will end, and our youth as a team will be taken advantage of.

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    Under no circumstances is the WCC good for Gonzaga. It's fine and what we are stuck with, but it hurts us nationally, with recruiting, money etc. Luckily our program has been clever on finding ways to overcome that adversity.

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    Default That's not the difference. In wanting more, we're the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by thespywhozaggedme View Post
    And that in a nutshell is the difference between the two of us; you're ok with that and I am not. But guess what, there's nothing I can do about it, it is what it is.
    The difference is that I believe our league is moving forward, not as fast as I'd like, but moving forward nonetheless (which is more than most mid major leagues can say these days). Measurable facts support this view.

    You believe that complaining incessantly about the league we are a part of is of some benefit to the program. What benefit that could be has never been explained, but you are so dedicated to that cause, surely you believe you're helping GU by making sure other fans, opponents, and recruits know how crappy our conference situation is.

    Never the first acknowledgement of the difference between now and 15 years ago. Never the first acknowledgement of the small sport or academic strength. No recognition that being a Top 8 league was far out of reach a few years ago. Nothing positive, nada.

    Since we appear to be here for the long haul, and since there has, as a point of fact, been growth, perhaps you would be willing to take a brief sabattical from your campaign against the WCC.
    "My golf is woeful, but I will never surrender."--Bing Crosby

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pargo the Destroyer View Post
    Itll be super awesome when you and spy both run out of energy and go to bed, you've been on an almost 2 day bender. Convinced that you're either the same person or married to each other. Get some rest you (two?) Itll all be better in the morning.
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    I like the WCC OK. Just wish the WCC would get better faster than it is. Yeah, I know, things take time and what’s happened, and is happening, here in Spokane is unique due to a host of qualities/attributes that just do not exist at other WCC school locations. But, I do see the improvement and this season’s 20+ point average win margin within the WCC by the Zags may very well not be attainable again (I personally feel it may be awhile before future Zag teams are as good as this season’s team). The point spreads being more indicative of how good the team was than how lacking other WCC teams were. I will say one thing I really don’t like about the WCC is the new WCC logo. That’s about as negative as I wanna get
    http://www.fowlplaces.com/zags/GoZagsTinySignGuyGlassesColor.png

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    I believe you are wrong and next year’s #5 Nationally ranked recruiting class supports my argument.
    Owned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    Owned.
    How many burger boys are in that class? How many top 40 guys are in that class? Are we competitive recruiting in Seattle or California? I am glad you think a consistent recruiting headwind caused by the WCC is good for the program. This class was put together because of how well and how early our staff gets to recruits and where they find them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    How many burger boys are in that class? How many top 40 guys are in that class? Are we competitive recruiting in Seattle or California? I am glad you think a consistent recruiting headwind caused by the WCC is good for the program. This class was put together because of how well and how early our staff gets to recruits and where they find them.
    I really couldn't care less.

    How many burger boys are interested in coming to Spokane? Where they actually have to go to class? I am thinking that you don't understand limitations that have nothing to do with the conference.

    I will tell you something else, not every burger boy wants to play for a guy like Mark Few - and I am glad for that - bc right now, I'm not sitting on the edge of my seat examining witness lists in trials spread out across the country. We don't have an assistant coach named "Bingo."

    You act like the entire issue is the conference, no - it's not, not even close. There are kids coming out of high school that expect their college experience to be a "semi-pro" experience, and that's not going to happen at GU. We'll never get those kids even if we move to the Pac tomorrow.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    How many burger boys are in that class? How many top 40 guys are in that class? Are we competitive recruiting in Seattle or California? I am glad you think a consistent recruiting headwind caused by the WCC is good for the program. This class was put together because of how well and how early our staff gets to recruits and where they find them.
    Well when you only tell one side of the story (only yours) and don’t care to tell the rest of the full story whether it be recruiting, the conference and so on, nobody really wants to entertain outlandish claims.

    But “how many burger boys??”

    Are you even serious right now? Lol. Good classes don’t need that and you should know that if you’re a real zag.... just saying
    21 Straight Big Dances

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    The Best Point Guard to ever play the game: John Stockton, most assists, most steals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    I really couldn't care less.

    How many burger boys are interested in coming to Spokane? Where they actually have to go to class? I am thinking that you don't understand limitations that have nothing to do with the conference.

    I will tell you something else, not every burger boy wants to play for a guy like Mark Few - and I am glad for that - bc right now, I'm not sitting on the edge of my seat examining witness lists in trials spread out across the country. We don't have an assistant coach named "Bingo."

    You act like the entire issue is the conference, no - it's not, not even close. There are kids coming out of high school that expect their college experience to be a "semi-pro" experience, and that's not going to happen at GU. We'll never get those kids even if we move to the Pac tomorrow.
    We have a winner!!!
    21 Straight Big Dances

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    10 Sweet Sixteens (5 Straight)

    4 Elite Eights

    2017 FINAL FOUR

    2 Winningest Players in college basketball history (Karnowski 137, Perkins 134)

    The Best Point Guard to ever play the game: John Stockton, most assists, most steals.

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    My question is, what is it exactly that you hope to gain by moving to a different conference?

    If the answer has to do with getting more respect from the talking heads on T.V. and their ilk, it will not make a difference. Some of the commentators are so into their
    ideologies of what they think the world should be like that Gonzaga is exactly the opposite of what their ideal is. The commentators who have taken an honest look at our program have given us respect where we deserve it.

    Also, it has been pointed out that we have had a very positive influence on our conference. How many programs can say that? I think Few and company are very forward looking in their approach to our conference, working to make it stronger and raising expectations for the future.

    If G.U. fans are upset with the "cupcake" diet, don't you think our coaches and team are more so? Again I will point to the rebuilding of our conference that is currently happening. These things take some time, a change in culture does not happen over night.

    Love my Zags!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    I really couldn't care less.

    How many burger boys are interested in coming to Spokane? Where they actually have to go to class? I am thinking that you don't understand limitations that have nothing to do with the conference.

    I will tell you something else, not every burger boy wants to play for a guy like Mark Few - and I am glad for that - bc right now, I'm not sitting on the edge of my seat examining witness lists in trials spread out across the country. We don't have an assistant coach named "Bingo."

    You act like the entire issue is the conference, no - it's not, not even close. There are kids coming out of high school that expect their college experience to be a "semi-pro" experience, and that's not going to happen at GU. We'll never get those kids even if we move to the Pac tomorrow.
    You realize that that staff wants top 40 guys right? And that conference is definitely a major limitation? And you need talent to get to final 4s, which means moving up on the recruiting ladder. Any real zag can see that. And the myth that Gonzaga has true student athletes while every other school treats their players as semipros is just that a myth. What side of the story am I not telling? That fact that the WCC is often times a one bid league? The fact that our facilities and player perks on on par with a lot of top programs? We don't need one and dones, but consistently getting top 100 guys does help.
    Last edited by Ladyzag12; 04-01-2019 at 07:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    You realize that that staff wants top 40 guys right? And that conference is definitely a major imitation? And you need talent to get to final 4s, which means moving up on the recruiting ladder. Any real zag can see that. And the myth that Gonzaga has true student athletes while every other school treats their players as seFirmipros is just that a myth. What side of the story am I not telling? That fact that the WCC is often times a one bid league? The fact that our facilities and player perks on on par with a lot of top programs? We don't need one and dones, but consistently getting top 100 guys does help.
    First of all, once you prove that you sat in the Kennel Club booing Gary Payton in the old Kennel, cheering on a team that won 8 games, then you can lecture me about who is or who is not a "real Zag."

    Second, I see the staff "pass" on top 40 guys all the time.

    You might take your "myth" story to LSU, Arizona, and Kansas right now, because it appears that some of the best prosecutors in the country are busy proving to 12 otherwise normal people that the "myth" is reality.

    You want to know the side of the story you're not telling? That's very easy. The fact that there is no other conference that fits your demands waiting and wanting us. THAT is the side you're not telling.

    Last, the other side (We'll call it a triangle) that you're not telling, is that if Zach and/or anyone hit a couple more 3 pointers in the last 4 minutes, we're not having this conversation.

    Until the Pac offers us a slot, you have no case. You can scream about the WCC limiting us, and I am still not sure that's even true, yet you have no alternative. When you have an alternative, come speak to us. Actually, don't, call Director Roth's office and tell him the plan, since I'm positive he's not thought of it yet.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    The Zags are not changing leagues. It ain't happening, no matter how much you may want them to. There are no other leagues to go to. The Zags used the MWC (with minimal contact) to get what they wanted from the WCC...tourney revenue restructuring, allowing the top 2 teams to go straight to the WCC tourney final, 16 game league sked and so on.

    The Zags want their games on ESPN. CBS College Sports gets sucky ratings, and apparently FOX is losing a bundle on its contract with the Big East. FSN1 gets sucky ratings. You are either on ESPN or you are not.

    The staff and students don't want to be travelling 2700 miles to face Georgetown and Providence, and they don't want to be flying to freezing cold and snowy Laramie, WY and Ft. Collins, CO. The ability to play in beautiful cities with easy transportation is a draw for recruits, and allows the staff to recruit on off days. Besides the WCC was a better league than the MWC anyway this year.

    Butlers appearance in back to back national title games, despite possessing less talent than several Zag teams, and playing in a much worse conference, forever ended the notion that you must be in a tough as nails league to make national championship games.

    This argument is over. It's not even worth fantasizing about it. The Zags are exactly where they belong and where they will forever be unless there is some massive change within the world of college basketball, which I don't feel that will occur because the power leagues know their bread is buttered by the CBS/Turner contract, and fans want Cinderella. Lots of articles about how the tournament is so boring this year. Why? Not enough upsets to satisfy the 25% of US office workers who never watch college basketball during the regular season.

    The Zags caught a really bad draw this year. They had to play in a sweet 16 against 3 teams who are DESIGNED to beat this year's Gonzaga team. It would've been nice to have faced Oregon or someone like that in one of the games. Few and Co. have improved this program's defense and toughness to where they can take out one great team whose program is focused on defense and rebounding, but they ended up facing a TT team in the elite 8 on short notice who experienced a historically unprecedented shift in its offensive efficiency over the course of 2 months. No way Tech would win that game if it had happened in mid-January. So many factors went into that loss. You can't win them all. 3 elite 8's in 5 years. Plus two sweet 16's. Unless you are a crazy Kentucky fan, if you're not satisfied with that, you need to meditate on some things.

    I also feel that Tech would've been in the discussion for a number 1 seed if they had played offensively all along like they have in recent weeks. Folks, their offense was in the 80 to low 100's at Pomeroy most of the season.
    I have no dog in this fight, although it is an interesting debate, but I do have a couple of responses to this post.

    First, the argument that the WCC is better for recruiting on off days in California doesnt hold much water. There are ZERO scholarship players on roster from Cali and I dont recall any California impact players over the last 5 years. If they were in MWC they would still be going to, Bay Area, So Cal, Vegas, Denver, etc, . And the recruiting they could do in the Big East on off days would be ridiculous as they would be in the top Basketball regions in the world

    Second, the "weather" argument you make against the MWC is pretty overstated. Laramie can be pretty knarly, but Ft Collins you are as likley to get 50's and sunny as you are cold and snowy during the coldest parts of winter. Same with Colorado Springs. And the rest of the conference you have warm (San Jose, Fresno, Vegas, San Diego) and mixed bag weather (Nmex, Utah, Boise, Reno)

    The travel argument against the Big East is probably your most persuasive one, but the fact that Zags have their own plane makes it less onerous on them. But if you look at it in detail, most of the big east are within the same flight time they currently fly when going to SoCal. Chicago, Omaha, Milwaukee, Cinccinnati, Butler are all in the midwest with flights that are about 3 hours (or less) from Spokane. They would have to take a couple of trips to the east coast each season and those would be long flights, but a small price to pay to get a home and home with schools like Villanova.

    I would think most of you guys, as fans, would prefer competitive games to blow outs, even if you lose a few more, just because I (once again as a spectator) find a close loss against a good team to be a lot more fun to watch than a 30 point blowout of team with clearly inferior talent.

  20. #45
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    This is what I'm talking about. You and your message board doppelganger spy don't see or acknowledge the growth.

    Since 2008, the WCC has been a 2 or 3 bid league 8 times, and a 1 bid league 3 times. And each of those 3 times the league had a 1 or 2 NIT seed, so it was close to 2 bids.

    It's not often that it's a 1 bid league now. It's seldom.

    The WCC needs more growth. But it is in fact heading in the right direction.

    And since it's where we're likely to be, try building it up or at least leaving it alone. For Pete's sake, try tearing down the Pac-12 for awhile instead. The WCC went 10-7 vs. the Pac-12 this year.
    "My golf is woeful, but I will never surrender."--Bing Crosby

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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh View Post
    I have no dog in this fight, although it is an interesting debate, but I do have a couple of responses to this post.

    First, the argument that the WCC is better for recruiting on off days in California doesnt hold much water. There are ZERO scholarship players on roster from Cali and I dont recall any California impact players over the last 5 years. If they were in MWC they would still be going to, Bay Area, So Cal, Vegas, Denver, etc, . And the recruiting they could do in the Big East on off days would be ridiculous as they would be in the top Basketball regions in the world

    Second, the "weather" argument you make against the MWC is pretty overstated. Laramie can be pretty knarly, but Ft Collins you are as likley to get 50's and sunny as you are cold and snowy during the coldest parts of winter. Same with Colorado Springs. And the rest of the conference you have warm (San Jose, Fresno, Vegas, San Diego) and mixed bag weather (Nmex, Utah, Boise, Reno)

    The travel argument against the Big East is probably your most persuasive one, but the fact that Zags have their own plane makes it less onerous on them. But if you look at it in detail, most of the big east are within the same flight time they currently fly when going to SoCal. Chicago, Omaha, Milwaukee, Cinccinnati, Butler are all in the midwest with flights that are about 3 hours (or less) from Spokane. They would have to take a couple of trips to the east coast each season and those would be long flights, but a small price to pay to get a home and home with schools like Villanova.

    I would think most of you guys, as fans, would prefer competitive games to blow outs, even if you lose a few more, just because I (once again as a spectator) find a close loss against a good team to be a lot more fun to watch than a 30 point blowout of team with clearly inferior talent.
    thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    First of all, once you prove that you sat in the Kennel Club booing Gary Payton in the old Kennel, cheering on a team that won 8 games, then you can lecture me about who is or who is not a "real Zag."

    Second, I see the staff "pass" on top 40 guys all the time.

    You might take your "myth" story to LSU, Arizona, and Kansas right now, because it appears that some of the best prosecutors in the country are busy proving to 12 otherwise normal people that the "myth" is reality.

    You want to know the side of the story you're not telling? That's very easy. The fact that there is no other conference that fits your demands waiting and wanting us. THAT is the side you're not telling.

    Last, the other side (We'll call it a triangle) that you're not telling, is that if Zach and/or anyone hit a couple more 3 pointers in the last 4 minutes, we're not having this conversation.

    Until the Pac offers us a slot, you have no case. You can scream about the WCC limiting us, and I am still not sure that's even true, yet you have no alternative. When you have an alternative, come speak to us. Actually, don't, call Director Roth's office and tell him the plan, since I'm positive he's not thought of it yet.
    I only mentioned real zag because someone used that line on me in a previous post. Please name me one top 40 player Gonzaga has passed on. That is a bit of a pipe dream. And there are other options. How does my myth story not apply to Duke, North Carolina, Michigan State, Syracuse, Villanova? That is a convenient lie we tell ourselves when we can't recruit top guys. Finally the Big East is a much better conference. I am not completely convinced that some sort of arrangement can't be made with the pac-12. And the MWC on average is a better conference year to year than the WCC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    I only mentioned real zag because someone used that line on me in a previous post. Please name me one top 40 player Gonzaga has passed on. That is a bit of a pipe dream. And there are other options. How does my myth story not apply to Duke, North Carolina, Michigan State, Syracuse, Villanova? That is a convenient lie we tell ourselves when we can't recruit top guys. Finally the Big East is a much better conference. I am not completely convinced that some sort of arrangement can't be made with the pac-12. And the MWC on average is a better conference year to year than the WCC.
    So you prefer to move to a league in the MWC that

    A) Was ranked lower than the WCC last year

    B) Is trending down, not up

    C) Makes its living on football, and always will

    D) Is far worse academically.


    I'll pass.


    The moment the Pac or Big East invites us into their league, let me know. Then I'll listen.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    So you prefer to move to a league in the MWC that

    A) Was ranked lower than the WCC last year

    B) Is trending down, not up

    C) Makes its living on football, and always will

    D) Is far worse academically.


    I'll pass.


    The moment the Pac or Big East invites us into their league, let me know. Then I'll listen.
    A) Cool one year data point. UNLV, Nevada, New Mexico, San Diego State are better then every program in the WCC except potentially BYU and Saint Mary's. If we left the WCC, BYU would be forced back to the MWC. The only up and coming program just had their coach leave for WSU.
    B)Recency Bias
    C)Great they have more resources for better facilities and real arenas.
    D)That doesn't matter much for me. Gonzaga will stand on its own academically by the standards it holds itself too and the type of student the school is targeting for admissions. Santa Clara and Pepperdine are good schools, but the rest of the WCC is not much to write home about academically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh View Post
    I have no dog in this fight, although it is an interesting debate, but I do have a couple of responses to this post.

    ...

    The travel argument against the Big East is probably your most persuasive one, but the fact that Zags have their own plane makes it less onerous on them. But if you look at it in detail, most of the big east are within the same flight time they currently fly when going to SoCal. Chicago, Omaha, Milwaukee, Cinccinnati, Butler are all in the midwest with flights that are about 3 hours (or less) from Spokane. They would have to take a couple of trips to the east coast each season and those would be long flights, but a small price to pay to get a home and home with schools like Villanova.

    I would think most of you guys, as fans, would prefer competitive games to blow outs, even if you lose a few more, just because I (once again as a spectator) find a close loss against a good team to be a lot more fun to watch than a 30 point blowout of team with clearly inferior talent.
    The most persuasive argument about the Big East not being an option is that they haven't invited us. The discussion about joining the Big East is flight of fancy. It is as much an option as joining the PAC12 at this point.
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