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Thread: The WCC has been great for Gonzaga basketball, and it's getting even better.

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    Default The WCC has been great for Gonzaga basketball, and it's getting even better.

    The WCC is a great fit for Gonzaga in almost every way, and in the couple areas where it isn't as strong, it's getting better.

    Years ago, I used to say that if things went well, the WCC could become like the Atlantic 10 at some point. A solid basketball league, made up (mostly) of private, religious schools. Well, that has happened.

    This year, the WCC was the #8 overall league in both Kenpom and Net Rankings. Gonzaga was able to get a 1-seed even with a double digit loss in the Conference Tournament Championship, thanks not only to great OOC wins, but to an abundance of Quartile 1 and 2 wins gained in league play.

    Thank goodness Roth and Few didn't pull the trigger to go to a declining Mountain West, which would have resulted in the a loss of millions in currently earned NCAA units, poorer Olympic Sports, worse TV, worse locations, and significantly lesser academics. And most importantly for basketball, the WCC is also stronger than the Mountain West where it matters most: On the Court.

    Gonzaga's winning ways have provided revenue and recognition for the entire league. Gonzaga has been the architect of a league that is no longer considered the sisters of the poor. Did you hear all of the praise from national announcers as league play began? I did. The addition of BYU was great, because it gave another nationally recognized brand to the league alongside Gonzaga. But look at what's happening. San Francisco, Santa Clara, Saint Mary's, and Pepperdine are all undertaking facility developments, to different extents. As money through NCAA units and TV revenue has increased, better coaching hires have been made. Lorenzo Romar, Mike Dunlap, Kyle Smith (even though he's now gone), etc. Schools such as Pepperdine and Santa Clara are starting to bring in 3 star recruits.

    The WCC had Five Top 100 Teams this season (Kenpom):

    #2 Gonzaga
    #31 SMC
    #67 San Francisco
    #87 BYU
    #90 San Diego

    The league has taken a step forward, and it's about to take a couple more, which is evident as you follow the money and the national exposure.

    Gonzaga has built a foundation the entire league is benefiting from. I've never seen anything like it, because no other school from a school outside the P5+The Big East has had a two decades long run of sustained success like Gonzaga has had. Sure, if the Big East came calling, pack your bags in a hurry. But outside of that pipe dream, we are in a great place of our own making, and it's getting better every day.

    On top of a burgeoning basketball presence, the WCC is one of the Top academic leagues in the nation, and also probably the strongest in the small sports outside of the P5 (even better than the Big East on that front). Women's Soccer, Women's Basketball, Women's Volleyball, and both Men's and Women's Cross Country are in the top 6-7 leagues in the nation year in and year out.

    Also, the WCC is currently the #6 RPI league in baseball. Only one team is outside the Top 105 in RPI.

    Those thinking it's somehow a good idea to join a league (even if it were possible), such as the American, that is driven by football revenue, are not living in reality. Ask the Catholic 7 why they left. Even if the MWC had not been dropping like a rock from it's 5-7 year run of good basketball, no way we should have joined. Becoming a basketball only school in a football driven league would be insanity. Roth played that perfectly, and parlayed an empty threat into millions of dollars of NCAA revenue for GU.

    Let's be a gracious conference top dog, quit knocking the league we are a part of (if you don't think recruits read the perception expressed by fans on a message board, think again), and enjoy the upward mobility of what is now a pretty solid league that has a strong overall history. A history of course, that includes the past 21 seasons of amazing Gonzaga basketball.
    Last edited by HillZag; 03-31-2019 at 06:43 PM.
    "My golf is woeful, but I will never surrender."--Bing Crosby

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    Would Villanova be happy to be in the Colonial? Would Duke be happy to be in the SoCon? Would Kansas be happy playing in the Missouri Valley? So why should we be happy being in the WCC? We're the only perennial top 10 powerhouse that plays in an average/subpar conference and what's worse is that we have many fans content with that. The WCC is a fine conference, but not for a major program like GU. We beat our conference mates by an average of 25 ppg this season and that factored in our loss to St. Mary's. I wanna play in a conference where we're challenged 75% of the time, not one where we see Jack Beach for the last 5 minutes of 75% of all games (no respect to him). We've outgrown the WCC, it's time we stop making excuses for it and propagandist threads like this one don't help.

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    We need a way back machine

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    Spy...honest question....why don't you become a fan of a team that meets your expectations ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    Spy...honest question....why don't you become a fan of a team that meets your expectations ?
    C'mon man. You're better than that. Aren't you?

    I mean, that's a garbage post. Real trash.

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    No it is a honest question....it is what I would do if I had no affiliation with Gonzaga....You appear to be unhappy with the coach, the players, the league, the accomplishments...if it upsets you so much....why do it ??

    There are a few teams far closer to you that have the kind of success you appear to need.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    No it is a honest question....it is what I would do if I had no affiliation with Gonzaga....You appear to be unhappy with the coach, the players, the league, the accomplishments...why do it ?? There are a few teams far closer to you that have the kind of success you appear to need.....
    I have been posting on the 5 different version of this board since 1998, spent thousands of dollars traveling all over the country following the Zags, laughed and cried with them and you tell me to "find another team to follow". You and your stupid ellipses can stick it where the sun don't shine.

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    I am just asking....why are you so defensive....??? If it makes you so unhappy....why do it ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thespywhozaggedme View Post
    Would Villanova be happy to be in the Colonial? Would Duke be happy to be in the SoCon? Would Kansas be happy playing in the Missouri Valley? So why should we be happy being in the WCC? We're the only perennial top 10 powerhouse that plays in an average/subpar conference and what's worse is that we have many fans content with that. The WCC is a fine conference, but not for a major program like GU. We beat our conference mates by an average of 25 ppg this season and that factored in our loss to St. Mary's. I wanna play in a conference where we're challenged 75% of the time, not one where we see Jack Beach for the last 5 minutes of 75% of all games (no respect to him). We've outgrown the WCC, it's time we stop making excuses for it and propagandist threads like this one don't help.
    You're speaking from emotion. Did you read my post?

    The WCC is presently the best option for us in the West, no question. The MWC would be a terrible move on every front. The American is also football driven. The Big East is too far.

    So your solution is to take our improving league and consistently trash it on the largest forum our fanbase, players, and recruits visit?

    Think logically about it. Your position and actions are a complete non-sequitur.
    "My golf is woeful, but I will never surrender."--Bing Crosby

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    Quote Originally Posted by HillZag View Post
    You're speaking from emotion. Did you read my post?

    The WCC is presently the best option for us in the West, no question. The MWC would be a terrible move on every front. The American is also football driven. The Big East is too far.

    So your solution is to take our improving league and consistently trash it on the largest forum our fanbase, players, and recruits visit?

    Think logically about it. Your position and actions are a complete non-sequitur.
    I haven't advocated for the MWC or the AAC. The BE, obviously, but that is a major logistical hurdle. I would have said nothing, but when you make this thread, it can't be ignored, it reeks of propaganda. P.S. Our fanbase, players and recruits don't need an irrelevant dork like me to see that a perennial top 10 national powerhouse and the WCC are an ill fit, just as Villanova would be in the Colonial, Duke in the SoCon and Kansas playing in the Missouri Valley. Do I accept that GU plays in the WCC? of course, I have no choice. Do I like it? No, it sucks that we feast on cupcakes for 3 months straight and almost never get challenged. Is there anything that I can do about it? Nope, it is what it is.

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    While I would love to be in a better b-ball conference, there aren’t any our west that would have us. Only step up on the west in Pac12 and we aren’t a fit. So, in all reality, any other option is a pipe dream/unrealistic. If we were on the east coast, sure, but we aren’t. And a lot of what makes us a success is our unique location on the west, so it’s a double edged sword.

    That said, my fear is that once we drop off our floor is much further down than say a pac12 school like UCLA going through a rough patch. We have the possibility to not bounce back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thespywhozaggedme View Post
    I haven't advocated for the MWC or the AAC. The BE, obviously, but that is a major logistical hurdle. I would have said nothing, but when you make this thread, it can't be ignored, it reeks of propaganda. P.S. Our fanbase, players and recruits don't need an irrelevant dork like me to see that a perennial top 10 national powerhouse and the WCC are an ill fit, just as Villanova would be in the Colonial, Duke in the SoCon and Kansas playing in the Missouri Valley. Do I accept that GU plays in the WCC? of course, I have no choice. Do I like it? No, it sucks that we feast on cupcakes for 3 months straight and almost never get challenged. Is there anything that I can do about it? Nope, it is what it is.
    I predict some of the Cupcakes will bite back next season. Revenge of the Cupcakes!

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    Default You're unwilling to even acknowledge the fact that the WCC is a Top 8 League.

    Quote Originally Posted by thespywhozaggedme View Post
    I haven't advocated for the MWC or the AAC. The BE, obviously, but that is a major logistical hurdle. I would have said nothing, but when you make this thread, it can't be ignored, it reeks of propaganda. P.S. Our fanbase, players and recruits don't need an irrelevant dork like me to see that a perennial top 10 national powerhouse and the WCC are an ill fit, just as Villanova would be in the Colonial, Duke in the SoCon and Kansas playing in the Missouri Valley. Do I accept that GU plays in the WCC? of course, I have no choice. Do I like it? No, it sucks that we feast on cupcakes for 3 months straight and almost never get challenged. Is there anything that I can do about it? Nope, it is what it is.
    You have nothing but bad to say. Compare our posting record. Who's the one posting propaganda? You post against the WCC as though you're paid by the hour. I'm mostly a reader and an occasional poster.

    Newsflash for you. We're not Duke. We're not Kansas. We are however, more like UNLV from their glory years. They did it in the Big West. Did Tark sit there and cry about his league while going to four Final Four's and winning the 1990 National Championship? No, he didn't. Because the Pac-12 wasn't going to take them. There wasn't an alternative. Few has been right to jump on a few laggards in the league about not investing in basketball. Well, look what has happened since then. Investments in facilities and coaches. Nice going few. At this point, he doesn't appear to be dwelling on it, and neither are most fans. We could have won the NC in 2017 regardless of conference affiliation. Same is true for this season. The play on the floor will determine how high GU rises as a program.

    The difference is that UNLV was dismantled by sanctions, which isn't something that appears to be on the horizon for Gonzaga. SMC will have another 2010 or 2017 pretty soon. BYU will have another 2010 or 2011. Pepperdine appears to be building to where they were at in the early 2000's.

    This is a league on the move. You just appear to be unwilling to accept that this isn't the WCC of 2004. Is it the Big East? No. But it is a whole lot like the Atlantic 10 now.
    "My golf is woeful, but I will never surrender."--Bing Crosby

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    Default I used to fear that...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZagNut08 View Post
    While I would love to be in a better b-ball conference, there aren’t any our west that would have us. Only step up on the west in Pac12 and we aren’t a fit. So, in all reality, any other option is a pipe dream/unrealistic. If we were on the east coast, sure, but we aren’t. And a lot of what makes us a success is our unique location on the west, so it’s a double edged sword.

    That said, my fear is that once we drop off our floor is much further down than say a pac12 school like UCLA going through a rough patch. We have the possibility to not bounce back.
    At this point, the major investment into facilities, the currently increasing revenue (thanks to the sweet deal Roth negotiated), and the growing fanbase give an assurance that the floor wouldn't drop entirely out. After only a couple NCAA Tournament wins since 1991, UNLV is just recently losing most of the improved status they gained under Tark, because they invested in their facilities and basketball brand, just as Gonzaga has been doing.

    Gonzaga can fall, but I don't think the floor drops out.
    "My golf is woeful, but I will never surrender."--Bing Crosby

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    Quote Originally Posted by HillZag View Post
    You have nothing but bad to say. Compare our posting record. Who's the one posting propaganda? You post against the WCC as though you're paid by the hour. I'm mostly a reader and an occasional poster.

    Newsflash for you. We're not Duke. We're not Kansas. We are however, more like UNLV from their glory years. They did it in the Big West. Did Tark sit there and cry about his league while going to four Final Four's and winning the 1990 National Championship? No, he didn't. Because the Pac-12 wasn't going to take them. There wasn't an alternative. Few has been right to jump on a few laggards in the league about not investing in basketball. Well, look what has happened since then. Investments in facilities and coaches. Nice going few. At this point, he doesn't appear to be dwelling on it, and neither are most fans. We could have won the NC in 2017 regardless of conference affiliation. Same is true for this season. The play on the floor will determine how high GU rises as a program.

    The difference is that UNLV was dismantled by sanctions, which isn't something that appears to be on the horizon for Gonzaga. SMC will have another 2010 or 2017 pretty soon. BYU will have another 2010 or 2011. Pepperdine appears to be building to where they were at in the early 2000's.

    This is a league on the move. You just appear to be unwilling to accept that this isn't the WCC of 2004. Is it the Big East? No. But it is a whole lot like the Atlantic 10 now.
    And that in a nutshell is the difference between the two of us; you're ok with that and I am not. But guess what, there's nothing I can do about it, it is what it is.

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    The Zags are not changing leagues. It ain't happening, no matter how much you may want them to. There are no other leagues to go to. The Zags used the MWC (with minimal contact) to get what they wanted from the WCC...tourney revenue restructuring, allowing the top 2 teams to go straight to the WCC tourney final, 16 game league sked and so on.

    The Zags want their games on ESPN. CBS College Sports gets sucky ratings, and apparently FOX is losing a bundle on its contract with the Big East. FSN1 gets sucky ratings. You are either on ESPN or you are not.

    The staff and students don't want to be travelling 2700 miles to face Georgetown and Providence, and they don't want to be flying to freezing cold and snowy Laramie, WY and Ft. Collins, CO. The ability to play in beautiful cities with easy transportation is a draw for recruits, and allows the staff to recruit on off days. Besides the WCC was a better league than the MWC anyway this year.

    Butlers appearance in back to back national title games, despite possessing less talent than several Zag teams, and playing in a much worse conference, forever ended the notion that you must be in a tough as nails league to make national championship games.

    This argument is over. It's not even worth fantasizing about it. The Zags are exactly where they belong and where they will forever be unless there is some massive change within the world of college basketball, which I don't feel that will occur because the power leagues know their bread is buttered by the CBS/Turner contract, and fans want Cinderella. Lots of articles about how the tournament is so boring this year. Why? Not enough upsets to satisfy the 25% of US office workers who never watch college basketball during the regular season.

    The Zags caught a really bad draw this year. They had to play in a sweet 16 against 3 teams who are DESIGNED to beat this year's Gonzaga team. It would've been nice to have faced Oregon or someone like that in one of the games. Few and Co. have improved this program's defense and toughness to where they can take out one great team whose program is focused on defense and rebounding, but they ended up facing a TT team in the elite 8 on short notice who experienced a historically unprecedented shift in its offensive efficiency over the course of 2 months. No way Tech would win that game if it had happened in mid-January. So many factors went into that loss. You can't win them all. 3 elite 8's in 5 years. Plus two sweet 16's. Unless you are a crazy Kentucky fan, if you're not satisfied with that, you need to meditate on some things.

    I also feel that Tech would've been in the discussion for a number 1 seed if they had played offensively all along like they have in recent weeks. Folks, their offense was in the 80 to low 100's at Pomeroy most of the season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    The Zags are not changing leagues. It ain't happening, no matter how much you may want them to. There are no other leagues to go to. The Zags used the MWC (with minimal contact) to get what they wanted from the WCC...tourney revenue restructuring, allowing the top 2 teams to go straight to the WCC tourney final, 16 game league sked and so on.

    The Zags want their games on ESPN. CBS College Sports gets sucky ratings, and apparently FOX is losing a bundle on its contract with the Big East. FSN1 gets sucky ratings. You are either on ESPN or you are not.

    The staff and students don't want to be travelling 2700 miles to face Georgetown and Providence, and they don't want to be flying to freezing cold and snowy Laramie, WY and Ft. Collins, CO. The ability to play in beautiful cities with easy transportation is a draw for recruits, and allows the staff to recruit on off days. Besides the WCC was a better league than the MWC anyway this year.

    Butlers appearance in back to back national title games, despite possessing less talent than several Zag teams, and playing in a much worse conference, forever ended the notion that you must be in a tough as nails league to make national championship games.

    This argument is over. It's not even worth fantasizing about it. The Zags are exactly where they belong and where they will forever be unless there is some massive change within the world of college basketball, which I don't feel that will occur because the power leagues know their bread is buttered by the CBS/Turner contract, and fans want Cinderella. Lots of articles about how the tournament is so boring this year. Why? Not enough upsets to satisfy the 25% of US office workers who never watch college basketball during the regular season.

    The Zags caught a really bad draw this year. They had to play in a sweet 16 against 3 teams who are DESIGNED to beat this year's Gonzaga team. It would've been nice to have faced Oregon or someone like that in one of the games. Few and Co. have improved this program's defense and toughness to where they can take out one great team whose program is focused on defense and rebounding, but they ended up facing a TT team in the elite 8 on short notice who experienced a historically unprecedented shift in its offensive efficiency over the course of 2 months. No way Tech would win that game if it had happened in mid-January. So many factors went into that loss. You can't win them all. 3 elite 8's in 5 years. Plus two sweet 16's. Unless you are a crazy Kentucky fan, if you're not satisfied with that, you need to meditate on some things.

    I also feel that Tech would've been in the discussion for a number 1 seed if they had played offensively all along like they have in recent weeks. Folks, their offense was in the 80 to low 100's at Pomeroy most of the season.
    Crazy 80's font. What is it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    The Zags are not changing leagues. It ain't happening, no matter how much you may want them to. There are no other leagues to go to. The Zags used the MWC (with minimal contact) to get what they wanted from the WCC...tourney revenue restructuring, allowing the top 2 teams to go straight to the WCC tourney final, 16 game league sked and so on.

    The Zags want their games on ESPN. CBS College Sports gets sucky ratings, and apparently FOX is losing a bundle on its contract with the Big East. FSN1 gets sucky ratings. You are either on ESPN or you are not.

    The staff and students don't want to be travelling 2700 miles to face Georgetown and Providence, and they don't want to be flying to freezing cold and snowy Laramie, WY and Ft. Collins, CO. The ability to play in beautiful cities with easy transportation is a draw for recruits, and allows the staff to recruit on off days. Besides the WCC was a better league than the MWC anyway this year.

    Butlers appearance in back to back national title games, despite possessing less talent than several Zag teams, and playing in a much worse conference, forever ended the notion that you must be in a tough as nails league to make national championship games.

    This argument is over. It's not even worth fantasizing about it. The Zags are exactly where they belong and where they will forever be unless there is some massive change within the world of college basketball, which I don't feel that will occur because the power leagues know their bread is buttered by the CBS/Turner contract, and fans want Cinderella. Lots of articles about how the tournament is so boring this year. Why? Not enough upsets to satisfy the 25% of US office workers who never watch college basketball during the regular season.

    The Zags caught a really bad draw this year. They had to play in a sweet 16 against 3 teams who are DESIGNED to beat this year's Gonzaga team. It would've been nice to have faced Oregon or someone like that in one of the games. Few and Co. have improved this program's defense and toughness to where they can take out one great team whose program is focused on defense and rebounding, but they ended up facing a TT team in the elite 8 on short notice who experienced a historically unprecedented shift in its offensive efficiency over the course of 2 months. No way Tech would win that game if it had happened in mid-January. So many factors went into that loss. You can't win them all. 3 elite 8's in 5 years. Plus two sweet 16's. Unless you are a crazy Kentucky fan, if you're not satisfied with that, you need to meditate on some things.

    I also feel that Tech would've been in the discussion for a number 1 seed if they had played offensively all along like they have in recent weeks. Folks, their offense was in the 80 to low 100's at Pomeroy most of the season.
    This is all totally true. It just sucks. We will never be able to recruit with the big dogs year in and year out. Plus frankly conference play just sucks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    This is all totally true. It just sucks. We will never be able to recruit with the big dogs year in and year out. Plus frankly conference play just sucks.
    Yes it does

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    This is all totally true. It just sucks. We will never be able to recruit with the big dogs year in and year out. Plus frankly conference play just sucks.
    I believe you are wrong and next year’s #5 Nationally ranked recruiting class supports my argument.
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    I believe you are wrong and next year’s #5 Nationally ranked recruiting class supports my argument.
    Yup.
    21 Straight Big Dances

    11 Straight Round of 32s

    10 Sweet Sixteens (5 Straight)

    4 Elite Eights

    2017 FINAL FOUR

    2 Winningest Players in college basketball history (Karnowski 137, Perkins 134)

    The Best Point Guard to ever play the game: John Stockton, most assists, most steals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    I believe you are wrong and next year’s #5 Nationally ranked recruiting class supports my argument.
    To be completely objective she did say "year in and year out" and next seasons class is definitely an outlier, so as of now she's correct. But 2020 looks promising, so fingers crossed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    I believe you are wrong and next year’s #5 Nationally ranked recruiting class supports my argument.
    Year in and year out. I love the class coming in and we have found a unique talent pipeline composed of grad transfers and foreign guys that makes us prominent, combined with exceptional player development. Don't think for a minute though that we are in the same league as Arizona, UCLA, Villanova, Oregon, or even USC when it comes to recruiting American players. Forget even being competitive with the true blue bloods. I am generally a proponent of the Michigan State UNC approach of recruiting if you can recruit at that level: get top 100 guys that will stay four for years generally with a few one and dones occasionally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitzbuel View Post
    I believe you are wrong and next year’s #5 Nationally ranked recruiting class supports my argument.
    How many WCC games are you actually excited to see per year? Saint Mary's and occasionally BYU?

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    All of them....won't miss a game....but I would prefer they play a full home and home schedule....

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