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Thread: Can someone please refute this with facts?

  1. #26
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    The 89-90 UNLV team played in The Big West and won the tourney. But unlike GU they cheated like some Power Conference Blue Bloods do.

  2. #27
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    I guess the big question is not if GU is a mid-major, but when. You can pick any arbitrary period of time to make your point, but GU most definitely has had the performance to rival most, and be better than many, power conference schools. The fact that they would have qualified for at-large bids most of the seasons above says something, as well. I couldn't help noticing/re-living the fact that GU has been knocked out of the tournament by some very good teams. Of the woulda-shoulda-coulda variety:
    Wyoming was a stinker
    Nevada was the Turiaf foul-trouble game (I believe)
    Davidson was Steph Curry in his back yard
    Wichita St was a buzz-saw with their shooting (should have won that anyway)


    I should have researched the Zag's seeds in each of the tournament games above, but at first blush they didn't lose too many that they shouldn't have. 2010-14 (five years) was a rough stretch where they didn't make it out of the first weekend, but look who they ran into...

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    1999-00...Sweet 16...(L) Purdue (#6)
    2000-01...Sweet 16...(L) Michigan St (#1)
    2001-02...1st round (ie lost in 1st round)..Wyoming
    2002-03...2nd round (ie lost in 2nd round)... (L) Arizona (#1)
    2003-04...2nd round...(L) Nevada (#10)
    2004-05...2nd round...(L) Texas Tech (#6)
    2005-06...Sweet 16...(L) UCLA (#2)
    2006-07...1st round...(L) Indiana (#7)
    2007-08...1st round...(L) Davidson (#10)
    2008-09...Sweet 16...(L) UNC (#1)
    2009-10...2nd round...(L) Syracuse (#1)
    **Play-in game added for 2011 tournament**
    2010-11...3rd round (ie lost their second game)...(L) BYU (#3)
    2011-12...3rd round...(L) Ohio St (#2)
    2012-13...3rd round...(L) Wichita St (#9)
    2013-14...3rd round...(L) Arizona (#1)
    2014-15...Elite 8...……(L) Duke (#1)
    2015-16...Sweet 16...(L) Syracuse (#10)
    2016-17...Runner Up.(L) UNC (#1)
    2017-18... Sweet 16..(L) FSU (#9)
    Zags are undefeated vs The SEC in the tourney.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    1999-00...Sweet 16...(L) Purdue (#6)
    2000-01...Sweet 16...(L) Michigan St (#1)
    2001-02...1st round (ie lost in 1st round)..Wyoming
    2002-03...2nd round (ie lost in 2nd round)... (L) Arizona (#1)
    2003-04...2nd round...(L) Nevada (#10)
    2004-05...2nd round...(L) Texas Tech (#6)
    2005-06...Sweet 16...(L) UCLA (#2)
    2006-07...1st round...(L) Indiana (#7)
    2007-08...1st round...(L) Davidson (#10)
    2008-09...Sweet 16...(L) UNC (#1)
    2009-10...2nd round...(L) Syracuse (#1)
    **Play-in game added for 2011 tournament**
    2010-11...3rd round (ie lost their second game)...(L) BYU (#3)
    2011-12...3rd round...(L) Ohio St (#2)
    2012-13...3rd round...(L) Wichita St (#9)
    2013-14...3rd round...(L) Arizona (#1)
    2014-15...Elite 8...……(L) Duke (#1)
    2015-16...Sweet 16...(L) Syracuse (#10)
    2016-17...Runner Up.(L) UNC (#1)
    2017-18... Sweet 16..(L) FSU (#9)
    Thank you for that. Quick question, do you happen to know what our seed was in those games? Thanks

  5. #30
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    A: I agree with the consensus - you aren't going to convince people with data

    B: There's really not a main factual claim being made in that post which you are seeking to refute. It's got a general mood and feeling that I understand is off-putting. For example, what does it mean to "earn your stripes"? I'd say a team has earned its stripes if it makes the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 (goes 2-1 or 3-1 in the tourney) as a double digit seed (average tourney wins for 10 seeds = .618.)

    The only claim I see that could reasonably be disproved by facts is the idea that "The NCAA have been giving them soft serve for years and they crap the bed". If by "NCAA" the person means the NCAA seeding committee, and by "soft serve" they mean we've been given weaker opponents by virtue of unearned high seeds, and by "crapped the bed" they mean performed worse than expected or below average for even some inflated "soft serve" seed assigned. (you basically have to actually define and clarify that person's assertion before you can refute it).

    In 20 years of tournaments, we've had only 4 years of a #2 or #1 seed. Our average tournament seed is 6.45. We've won 2 or 3 tourney games as a double digit seed 5 times. That's more years than the total number of seasons we've had a #1 or #2 seed.

    6th seeded teams average 1.08 wins per year, Gonzaga has averaged 1.55 wins/year with an average seed of 6.45. That is more wins than the average for all 4 seed teams all time, Gonzaga doing it despite being seeded between 6 and 7. So we are playing harder teams than 4 seeds, and winning more games than 4 seeds, but being given (treated by the NCAA?) a 6/7 seed.

    The gold standard for evaluating a team's NCAA record relative to how they are seeding (evaluated by the NCAA) is here.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by thespywhozaggedme View Post
    Thank you for that. Quick question, do you happen to know what our seed was in those games? Thanks
    I edited the above (on page one) to include seeds (per Wikipedia)

  7. #32
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    Per KenPom, the Zags' and Kentucky's OOC SOS is 103 and 104, respectively. So even Steven. The Zags lost two, to top 10 teams (currently #7 and #5 Kenpom). Kentucky lost two, to #3 (a team we beat), and a #59 Seton Hall.

    If Kentucky is on another level than the Zags, then you have to explain the above. And why are all five of Kentucky's losses to teams equal or worse than GU's loss opponents?

    If NET considers SOS, and they have such a more grueling schedule, why aren't they ranked #1 in NET, of which there is no subjective component? Even by the now outdated RPI standards, the Zags are higher than Kentucky by two spots (#5 vs. #7).

    There's little point in arguing with some rabid blue blood fans, particularly ones that have fewer brains than teeth.

  8. #33
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    The whelping box is such a hit... Maybe we can make spy his own dedicated forum for taking about other teams' boards. Mods? Lots of opportunity here for fun names, too... Madlib style: The _________ing Box.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    I edited the above (on page one) to include seeds (per Wikipedia)
    Thanks

  10. #35
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    Sympathetic to spy here, but also to the view that debating the subnormals on that board (or many P6 boards) is an utterly lost cause.

    With respect to UK, am hoping we get a chance to settle it where it belongs -- on the court.
    Your children have been placed in the custody of...Carl's Jr.

  11. #36
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    Spy, I think you are too emotionally invested to be doing the refuting. I think all refuting should be assigned to GoZags and it should be at his discretion when or where he puts the foolish poster to shame. Those trolls just thrive on stirring people like you up.
    Birddog

    Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzagafan62 View Post
    I don’t think anyone is getting knickers in a hoot spy. We are telling you and giving you advice lol. Stop wasting your time and clogging up our board with nonsense. It’s not like this is new info ... lol
    This

  13. #38
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    Debating the likes of Ashley Judd is not good for your sanity.

  14. #39
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    Dont try to reason with southerners on politics or sports teams. They don't listen.

  15. #40
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    I am just here to one star the thread...

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I am just here to one star the thread...
    Do I lose my job over that? Do my kids love me any less? Do I suffer sever and uncontrollable diarrhea? I find it comical that not only does a grown man brag about giving someone a 1 star, but he does it with malice and glee. Dude, we're grown men talking about teenagers and young men trying to put as ball in as hoop. Me thinks you're taking this message board thing a wee bit too seriously.

  17. #42
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    I intended it to be constructive...really you should get some perspective ..it is a terrible thread...

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I intended it to be constructive...really you should get some perspective ..it is a terrible thread...
    People don’t boast if they want to do something “constructive” they do it with humility and anonymity. Whoever forced you to open and post in this thread against your will should be banned.

  19. #44
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    My panties are not in a knot....no one has forced me to post....I could have rated the tread as terrible anonymously but I am more forthright and truthful than that...

    I am happy that at least you recognize that if someone has a different opinion..... that your kids will still love you....that you will keep you job...... and that your bowel movements will be solid and predictable ….that is a good start....

    You can have the last word if you would like and I will apologize in advance for not replying ….have a nice day
    Last edited by bartruff1; 03-12-2019 at 04:41 PM.

  20. #45
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    So... did you set the record straight over there?

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    So... did you set the record straight over there?
    I copied and pasted a lot of the stuff that you guys gave me. There were about a handful of posters over there that were very kind and respectful and acknowledged the talent on the team despite the conference. But the vast majority are elitist condescending haters. Oh well, we have those types on our board too.

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