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Thread: Top 25 Zags since 98-99

  1. #1
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    Default Top 25 Zags since 98-99

    I came up with 35 names. The additional 10 were honorable mentions. The 10 were : Heytvelt, S Gray, A Daye,M Downs, G Bell Jr, M Hart, D Stockton, S Dower, Z Norvelle, and C Violette.

    All of this is arguable, controversial, and opinions . I get it that my list will not match anyones.

    25. Zack Collins
    24. R Sacre
    23. K Tillie
    22. J Williams
    21. JP Batista
    20. M Bouldin
    19. J Pargo
    18. D Raivio
    17.B Clarke
    16. R Frahm
    15. S Karnowski
    14. K Wiltjer
    13. N W Goss
    12. K Pangos
    11. J Perkins
    10. B Stepp
    09. K Olynyk
    08. R Turiaf
    07. M Santangelo
    06. C Calvary
    05. E Harris
    04. D. Dickau
    03. A. Morrison
    02. R Hachimura
    01. D Sabonis

    Norvell , Clarke, Tillie , and Hachimura are still playing so they will almost certainly move up. Kispert is close to honorable mention and if he continues will most likely end up in top 25. I considered years played and how far team went. Goss would contend for top 5 but only had 1 year. Had Olynik n Harris made Elite 8 that would have made a big difference. Heytvelt blew it and I considered Violette at 25th.

    In conclusion there are so many. My list is obviously not the end all. Morrison and Dickau just didn't play any defense. Maybe I rated Wilther too high. Bouldins teams under achieved and it cost S Gray as well. One year players had tough time making cut. Zack Collins may have been nr 1 if he stayed 3 years possibly. Sabonis was a monster and he led us to us to a different gear which resulted in what the Zags are today.

  2. #2
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    You got #1 right. And your top 5 are a pretty good team.

  3. #3
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    imo Steven Gray belongs on the Top 25 list. Guy was a baller on and off the court all 4 years.

  4. #4
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    Good on ya for putting out a list that no one will agree with , It's a pretty good list.

    Batista, J. Williams, Pargo too low. Harris and Wiltjer too high.

    Could we get one honorary spot for 'Zag glue guy' for guys like Pendo and Hart?

  5. #5

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    Just for fun I added mine. I didnt put as much thought into this as you, but there are some I very much disagree with. I think the hard part is the overall talent level has risen so much. If Rui played in 1999 he would have been far and away the best player on that team IMO, but i have to consider impact. So I may think he is more talented than Calvary or Turiaf, but I have him lower because those guys had to do more with less talented teammates. So I considered talent, impact, team success, longevity of career. The fact that Rui was a non factor in the final 4 run moves him down, though I think he could more up 5-6 spots with a big tournament performance. With Sabonis I think his talent is top 3 all time, at least, but he only played 2 years and started for 1.


    My list would be
    HM: Heytvelt, Gray, Daye


    25. Erroll Knight
    24. Cory Violette
    23. Zach Norvell
    22. Robert Sacre
    21. Brandon Clarke
    20. JP Batista
    19. Matt Bouldin
    18. Jeremy Pargo
    17. Derek Raivio
    16. Josh Perkins
    15. Kyle Wiltjer
    14. Richie Frahm
    13. Shem Karnowski
    12. Nigel Williams Goss
    11. Rui Hachimura
    10. Kevin Pangos
    09. Kelly Olynyk
    08. Domas Sabonis
    07. Elias Harris
    06. Ronny Turiaf
    05. Casey Calvary
    04. Dan Dickau
    03. Matt Santangelo
    02. Blake Stepp
    01. Adam Morrison

  6. #6
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    Is this a top talent, best player list or a ‘most valuable player’ list, factoring in all the statistical and intangibles a player brought to the team? Or, maybe both? Just asking. Big difference for me in judging the list.

    Just sayin’..........Wilt Chamberlin would rank very high on an all time NBA best player list, but would rank significantly lower
    on a total package, most valuable player to his team list, because it was common knowledge that he wasn’t a team player.

  7. #7
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    I could never vote Adam #1. He cried like a 5 year old in that horrible UCLA game which is burned in my memory forever. I'm glad it's just a memory, and I take solace in that the Joke-12 is now a complete joke.
    WE HAVE A GOAL -- WE HAVE A MISSION -- SPOKANE, STAPLES, ATLANTA

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    Quote Originally Posted by SorenTodd45 View Post
    I could never vote Adam #1. He cried like a 5 year old in that horrible UCLA game which is burned in my memory forever. I'm glad it's just a memory, and I take solace in that the Joke-12 is now a complete joke.
    Those aren’t tears of sorrow. That’s tears of exhaustion and not seeing your dream all the way through.
    21 Straight Big Dances

    11 Straight Round of 32s

    10 Sweet Sixteens (5 Straight)

    4 Elite Eights

    2017 FINAL FOUR

    2 Winningest Players in college basketball history (Karnowski 137, Perkins 134)

    The Best Point Guard to ever play the game: John Stockton, most assists, most steals.

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    I'll make some popcorn.....

  10. #10
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    This is tough. We've had so many outstanding players to enjoy and while comparisons can be made each had a unique talent unlike any other.
    My fav's

    The list is quite subjective and personal for myself, so data be damned these are my guys.

    1. Adam Morrison (gritty, had a need and will to win), most exciting player all time. Made up for lazy defense with scorching offense.
    2. Brandon Clarke: Unlike Morrison in any way, but most athletic and exciting player I can remember since Ammo. He dazzles.
    2. (Tie) Kelly O: His leap from Frosh to redshirt to star was breathtaking.
    3. Sabonis: unstoppable motor, heart of a lion, skilled.
    4. NWG: Hardest working guard, tough as nails and took over games entirely at times.
    5 J. Williams: just loved his game and his story.
    6. Josh Perkins: Took us to a title game and just might do it twice. His vision and passing is second to none this year. I finally trust his play.
    7. Jeremy Pargo: Amazing athlete that improved tremendously over his time as a Zag
    8. Zach Norvelle: Snacks is clutch. Plays at wide open tip to tip.
    9. Ronny T: Awesome big man
    10. Dan D: Just wow, scorched the nets
    11. Ravio: Never felt more comfortable if the ball was in his hands and more so at the FT Line.
    12. Hachimura: Probably the highest eventual ceiling but still has lots of growth opportunities IMO.
    13. Calvalry: Force to recon with, will to win
    15. M. Santangelo: Gutsy and without him the program isn't where we are today.
    16. Pangos: His injuries hampered what he could have been but was incredible even injured.
    17. Errol Knight: He could turn it on. Never reached his potential as a player but had a wow factor I loved at times.
    18. Shem Karnowski: The lovable giant that had gigantic obstacles to endure and he did. Had a bad game, unfortunately it was for a NC.
    19. Josh Heytveldt; Had a really high ceiling IMO.
    20. E. Harris
    21. JP Batista
    22. Tillie
    23. Fram
    24. Bolden
    25. Gray

    Trying to do this is near impossible so I threw objectivity out the window, I just like these guys a ton and not necessarily in the order I listed. How blessed Gonzaga has been. Looking at this list is just stunning.
    To Fish & Game: Keep streams stocked well for Mr. Few!

  11. #11
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    1. Ronny Turiaf
    2. Adam Morrison
    3. Dan Dickau
    4. Matt Santangelo
    5. Casey Calvary
    6. Blake Stepp
    7. Kevin Pangos
    8. Josh Perkins
    9. Przemek Karnowski
    10. Derek Raivio
    11. Domas Sabonis
    12. Rui Hachimura
    13. Elias Harris
    14. Jeremy Pargo
    15. Richie Frahm
    16. Steven Gray
    17. Sam Dower
    18. Matt Bouldin
    19. Quentin Hall
    20. Robert Sacre
    21. JP Bautista
    22. Alex Hernandez
    23. Killian Tillie
    24. Josh Heytvelt
    25. Kyle Wiltjer

    1 year wonders off the list: NWG, Marquise Carter, Zach Collins, Kelly Olynyk, Brandon Clarke just to name a few

    Close but no cigar: Johnathan Williams III, Austin Daye, Mike Hart, Abdul Kuso, Zach Gourde, David Stockton, Micah Downs, Silas Melson
    21 Straight Big Dances

    11 Straight Round of 32s

    10 Sweet Sixteens (5 Straight)

    4 Elite Eights

    2017 FINAL FOUR

    2 Winningest Players in college basketball history (Karnowski 137, Perkins 134)

    The Best Point Guard to ever play the game: John Stockton, most assists, most steals.

  12. #12
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    This thread needs some more love for Gary Bell. He was, at most times, a superior two way player than Pangos. He was just as mentally brilliant on the defensive end as Pangos was on O.

  13. #13
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    I will throw my top 25 in here.

    In no particular order.

    1. Matt Santangelo
    2. Josh Perkins
    3. Casey Calvary
    4. Richie Frahm
    5. Adam Morrison
    6. Domantis Sabonis
    7. Kevin Pangos
    8. NWG
    9. Przemek Karnowski
    10. Ronny Turiaf
    11. Robert Sacre
    12. Jeremy Pargo
    13. Matt Bouldin
    14. Steven Gray
    15. Elias Harris
    16. Blake Stepp
    17. Dan Dickau
    18. Kyle Wiltjer
    19. Gary Bell Jr.
    20. Josh Heytvelt
    21. Kelly Olynyk
    22. JP Batista
    23. Zach Norvell
    24. Rui Hachimura
    25. Brandon Clarke

  14. #14
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    No wonder there’s so much bickering.

    My list would be just as emotional.
    Parlez-vous français?

  15. #15
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    Default Top 25 Zags since 98-99

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #16
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    My favorites? Calvary, and Morrison.

    The best? That one is really tough. One of Sabonis, Clarke, Goss, Morrison, Olynyk, Santangelo, Calvary, or Perkins. They would be my top 8 in no particular order. One thing mostly in common, they all left early except Calvary, Santangelo, and Perkins. Could those eight win a title as a team? Without a doubt. Would likely be the odds on favorite for any given year.

    We will never know how good Zach Collins could have been. Came off the bench his only season here, but was huge in post season.
    I miss Mike Hart

  17. #17
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    Not sure I could comfortably have a "Top 25" list .... maybe top 35-50 as there isn't one guy listed in the 16 previous posts I'd want to eliminate.

    That being said ... I know the five guys who WOULD be my earlier referenced alltime Top 5 favorite Zags .... and of course that's using my own definition of "Zag".

    Mark Spink
    David Pendergraft
    Jeremy Jones
    Ronny Turiaf
    David Stockton

    He is in my alltime Top 5 favorite Zags .... ever.
    http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/...39#post1405939

    "To be continued ....."
    Father Tony Lehman, SJ

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanilla Gorilla View Post
    Just for fun I added mine. I didnt put as much thought into this as you, but there are some I very much disagree with. I think the hard part is the overall talent level has risen so much. If Rui played in 1999 he would have been far and away the best player on that team IMO, but i have to consider impact. So I may think he is more talented than Calvary or Turiaf, but I have him lower because those guys had to do more with less talented teammates. So I considered talent, impact, team success, longevity of career. The fact that Rui was a non factor in the final 4 run moves him down, though I think he could more up 5-6 spots with a big tournament performance. With Sabonis I think his talent is top 3 all time, at least, but he only played 2 years and started for 1.


    My list would be
    HM: Heytvelt, Gray, Daye


    25. Erroll Knight
    24. Cory Violette
    23. Zach Norvell
    22. Robert Sacre
    21. Brandon Clarke
    20. JP Batista
    19. Matt Bouldin
    18. Jeremy Pargo
    17. Derek Raivio
    16. Josh Perkins
    15. Kyle Wiltjer
    14. Richie Frahm
    13. Shem Karnowski
    12. Nigel Williams Goss
    11. Rui Hachimura
    10. Kevin Pangos
    09. Kelly Olynyk
    08. Domas Sabonis
    07. Elias Harris
    06. Ronny Turiaf
    05. Casey Calvary
    04. Dan Dickau
    03. Matt Santangelo
    02. Blake Stepp
    01. Adam Morrison
    I'm going with five teams of five on each team.

    1. NW Goss
    Adam Morrison
    Rui Hachimura
    Domas Sabonis
    Ronny Turiaf

    2. Dan Dickau
    Blake Stepp
    Richie Frahm
    Brandon Clarke
    Kelly Olynyk

    3. Matt Santangelo
    Matt Bouldin
    Steven Gray
    Casey Calvary
    Shem Karnowski

    4. Josh Perkins
    Jeremy Pargo
    Zach Norvell
    Kyle Wiltjer
    JP Batista

    5. Kevin Pangos
    Derek Paivio
    Elias Harris
    Corey Violette
    Robert Sacre
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  19. #19

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    Some great players who have come through the program..

    I would rate NWG higher than most though.... he has done something no PG before him did.. take the zags to a championship. Morrison was the most iconic though in programs history. Sabonis probably the most skilled. Ronny the greatest face. Frahm or Dickau the best shooter.

  20. #20
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    I get a kick out of the fact that it is the general consensus that we have had some many good/great players that we have a thread debated the best 25!! An embarassment of riches!

  21. #21
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    The Bonus, KO, Ammo, DD and Goss.....

  22. #22
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    My intensions was to rate the best players with added element of how successful the team was , the impact of the player. I could have used a metric system where you get valued points for team success, individual awards, statistical top 10 tens etc. That would take a long time and I would have to use own personal value system. I may do that during off season. Take each individual player and figure it out. Off the top of my head lake Stepp metrics woukd be high as well as Josh Perkins.

  23. #23
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    Just for fun and impossible to do off the top of your head. You can't pick Rui over Morrison on an individual basis. Rui has all the physical tools, Morrison had the drive and averaged 28pts a game his junior year! Heytvelt had 2 seasons where he averaged 15pts a game on good teams. And what about Rillie (before 98 but damn). Dude shot over 40% from 3's his entire college career and averaged 15pts a game in his last year. Violette was solid and consistent (almost a double-double guy for 2-3 years) and never got hurt. The intangibles are hard to calculate. I could go on with others but then this post would go on forever. I understand this is all subjective but too difficult to do especially down to the top 10.

  24. #24
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    It know these two players are outside the '98-to-present parameters, but how about a little appreciation for Bakari Hendrix and Lorenzo Rollins? Hendrix was absolutely instrumental in the Zags' first NCAA appearance, and I'm not sure the program had a more athletic guard in its history, to that point, than Rollins. They were just slightly before the run that started in '99, and I think are too easily forgotten.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeninsulaDog View Post
    It know these two players are outside the '98-to-present parameters, but how about a little appreciation for Bakari Hendrix and Lorenzo Rollins? Hendrix was absolutely instrumental in the Zags' first NCAA appearance, and I'm not sure the program had a more athletic guard in its history, to that point, than Rollins. They were just slightly before the run that started in '99, and I think are too easily forgotten.
    Awesome post .... both guys are vastly underappreciated (and possibly unknown) by many on this board.

    + a million (or more)

    "To be continued ....."
    Father Tony Lehman, SJ

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