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Thread: 2019 vs 2017

  1. #1

    Default 2019 vs 2017

    Heister brought it up, as Greg often likes to compare teams/players/and anything up for debate. Eric Maclellan then brought it up on Twitter saying this was the best team few ever had. I am at work, so i wont go in to an in depth breakdown like some i know will, but I feel like this may be a good time to bring up the debate after a 60 point pounding of Santa Clara. This years team verse the National Championship runner up of 2017. While the politically correct answer may be "wait and see how far they go", lets not be politically correct and have at it.

    Starting Lineup:

    Pg-NWG (JR) vs Josh Perkins (SR)
    Sg-Josh Perkins (SO) vs Zach Norvell (SO)
    Sf-Jordan Matthews (SR) vs Corey Kispert (SO)
    Pf-Jonathan Williams (JR) vs Rui Hachimura (JR)
    C-Shem Karnowski (SR) vs Brandon Clarke (JR)

    Benches:
    6th: Zach Collins (FR) vs Killian Tillie (JR)
    7th: Silas Melson (JR) vs Geno Crandall (JR)
    8th: Killian Tillie (FR) vs Jeremy Jones (SR)
    9th: Rui Hachimura (FR) vs Filip Petrusev (FR)

  2. #2
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    ‘17. But would love to be proved wrong

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    Starters might be close but big edge to the '17 bench. I'd give at least slight edge to '17 starters as well. Coaching an x-factor? Oh wait, never mind.

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    2017. Can’t replace NWG, he just was so clutch and drove that team. Also had a McD’s AA and lottery pick coming off the bench. And then there’s Karno who just ate space and set the tone defensively.

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    This year. We have never had two starters as dynamic as Rui and Clarke.

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    If Shem doesn't get his eye scratched against South Carolina I believe in my heart of hearts that the Zags would have been national champions. With the 2017 team, the whole seamed greater than the sum of its parts, whereas this team has great parts but hasn't been firing on all cylinders. It's hard to pick this team to go all the way to the final game because of the defense, but man, their offense... and they have 3 likely NBA'ers on this team-- not to mention they should have beaten Tennessee and should beat UNC on a neutral court. What a tough question to answer.

    This is unfair, but I'll go with 2017 because they proved they heart. This team might have it, too, but they haven't gotten the chance to show it yet in March.

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    If Rui could've been just half of what he is now................ Wellllllllllll doggie.
    The Kennel: "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

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    Quote Originally Posted by thespywhozaggedme View Post
    This year. We have never had two starters as dynamic as Rui and Clarke.
    We never had a PG like Nigel.
    The Kennel: "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobZag View Post
    We never had a PG like Nigel.
    Nigel is the X factor for me... he was just so darn good. But perk is really starting to play smart and well. He is so much better than he was in 2017.

    Shem was such a force down low.. but Clarke is a force in his own way.

    Rui is a better one on one player i think than anyone in 2017. 2017 had more size.. this team has better shooters i think?

    Tough!

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    Quote Originally Posted by seacatfan View Post
    Starters might be close but big edge to the '17 bench. I'd give at least slight edge to '17 starters as well. Coaching an x-factor? Oh wait, never mind.
    This is where I am at...starters 2, 4 and 5 are fairly interchangeable, 3 is a slight edge to Matthews..NWG was like what Cleeves was to MSU back in the day...the 17 bench is loaded, the only one I think I take from 19 is Petrusev over Hachi..at that time..and Collins vs Tillie, gotta go toss up right now

    With all that said, this years team is LOADED

    Imagine 17 with Sabonis, hands down one of the best teams of all time
    I am working on being a more all around square.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=zagsfanforlife;1426772]Heister brought it up, as Greg often likes to compare teams/players/and anything up for debate. Eric Maclellan then brought it up on Twitter saying this was the best team few ever had. I am at work, so i wont go in to an in depth breakdown like some i know will, but I feel like this may be a good time to bring up the debate after a 60 point pounding of Santa Clara. This years team verse the National Championship runner up of 2017. While the politically correct answer may be "wait and see how far they go", lets not be politically correct and have at it.

    Starting Lineup:

    Pg-NWG (JR) vs Josh Perkins (SR)--+ 2019 Josh Perkins has 2 more years of experience.
    Sg-Josh Perkins (SO) vs Zach Norvell (SO)--+ 2019 Zach Norvell but not by much
    Sf-Jordan Matthews (SR) vs Corey Kispert (SO)--2017 Jordan Matthews experience and defensive play
    Pf-Jonathan Williams (JR) vs Rui Hachimura (JR)--2019 Rui Hachimura by the smallest of margins
    C-Shem Karnowski (SR) vs Brandon Clarke (JR)--2019 Brandon Clarke by a large margin athletically not taking anything away from Shem

    Benches:
    6th: Zach Collins (FR) vs Killian Tillie (JR)--2019 Tillie
    7th: Silas Melson (JR) vs Geno Crandall (JR)--toss up
    8th: Killian Tillie (FR) vs Jeremy Jones (SR)--2019 Jeremy Jones
    9th: Rui Hachimura (FR) vs Filip Petrusev (FR)--2019 Filip Petrusev[/QUOTE]

    Hands down this team is better than the 2017 team
    2017: 2 Seniors, 3 Juniors, 1 Soph, 3 Freshman
    2019: 2 Seniors, 4 Juniors, 2 Soph, 1 Freshman

    Experience matters, Tournament Experience really matters, but what sets this group apart is the athletic capabilities of this team are far superior. I did notice that Rem Bakamus was not listed as the 10th player and to be quite serious this team could use a Rem on the bench this year because he was an unsung reason of why the 2017 team did as well as it did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by basketballzag View Post
    Hands down this team is better than the 2017 team
    2017: 2 Seniors, 3 Juniors, 1 Soph, 3 Freshman
    2019: 2 Seniors, 4 Juniors, 2 Soph, 1 Freshman

    Experience matters, Tournament Experience really matters, but what sets this group apart is the athletic capabilities of this team are far superior. I did notice that Rem Bakamus was not listed as the 10th player and to be quite serious this team could use a Rem on the bench this year because he was an unsung reason of why the 2017 team did as well as it did.
    Thanks for the insight Rem
    I am working on being a more all around square.

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    Rem’s handshake game was second to none.

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    Not even close for me, but then again I seem to live in the past a lot...

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    The difference isn't any one player yet 2017 had that extra 5 inches & 55 pounds manning the middle.

    No team could match that.

    Numerous teams can match us one on one yet we have to beat them as a team.

    2017 had someone no team could match.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zagsfanforlife View Post
    Nigel is the X factor for me... he was just so darn good. But perk is really starting to play smart and well. He is so much better than he was in 2017.

    Shem was such a force down low.. but Clarke is a force in his own way.

    Rui is a better one on one player i think than anyone in 2017. 2017 had more size.. this team has better shooters i think?

    Tough!
    As a PG, I like 2019 Josh over 2017 Nigel. Why? I expect Josh to stay within himself this year, whereas Nigel (bless his heart) tried to put the team on his shoulders against UNC, and tried to do too much.

    SG: Give me Snacks over 2017 Josh. His hoops IQ is better than Josh's was when he was a sophomore.

    SF: Toss up if it's Kispert and Jordan. Maybe a slight nod to Jordan at this point.

    PF: Rui over J3, though I love both of these guys. Rui gets the nod for offensive prowess and FT shooting, J3 is the better defensive player.

    C: Karno gets the edge over Brandon. Shem's passing was unparalled, at least until Drew Timme arrives next year. He covered the paint better than Sherwin Williams covered the world.

    Bench, as currently constructed: this year's bench is superior to 2017. Two seniors and a junior coming off the bench, with a very talented freshman to boot.

    This year's team gets my nod for now. The verdict is yet to come.

  17. #17
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    2017 and currently it’s not even close imo. That defense 2017 was second to none. Literally. The offense was stout too. NWG is better than Perkins is now.

    I love both teams but give me a break lol
    Qualified for 22 Straight Big Dances

    11 Straight Round of 32s

    10 Sweet Sixteens (5 Straight)

    4 Elite Eights

    2017 FINAL FOUR

    2 Winningest Players in college basketball history (Karnowski 137, Perkins 134)

    The Best Point Guard to ever play the game: John Stockton, most assists, most steals.

  18. #18
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    NWG - absolute college stud! You must have a G that can absolutely will his team to victory. He made everyone better.

    Its hard to compare the current guys to when they were younger...we forget how much they have improved.

    2017 - take them in a pressure game
    2019 - win 8/10 pickup games vs 2017.

  19. #19
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    2019 beat Duke.....mic drop

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzagafan62 View Post
    2017 and currently it’s not even close imo. That defense 2017 was second to none. Literally. The offense was stout too. NWG is better than Perkins is now.

    I love both teams but give me a break lol
    I would say 2017 at this point too, but "give me a break" usually is meant for topics that are without question.. out of 10 or so replies, the opinions seem pretty even!

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    This thread is quite entertaining. I’m in the 2019 boat firmly. Much more difficult non conference schedule, which they gritted out some tough victories despite being short handed. Comparing starter to starter is a bit silly, and frankly even sillier when you hear that Rui is only a slight nod above JW3(no disrespect, but Rui is a top 5 pick). Comparing the value of the 1st option to the 1st option all the way down the line is more telling to me, and I think the argument can be made that 5 to 7 of the 2019 team are better options. This 2019 team is special. Can’t wait for them to follow it through in the tournament!

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    I think the talent levels are a push. Where I think the difference is... the heart and desire. Now don't get me wrong, 2017 WANTED get to April... the did everything they could to get there and achieved it but fell short of the big prize. This 2019 team doesn't just want it... they EXPECT it. They demand it of themselves. When a flaw gets exposed... they fix it and make it a point of emphasis. More so, they are just a better all around team. I don't recall that 2017 team playing D to the point of forcing multiple shot clock violations in a row in multiple games. I love both teams... just think this team as a whole is just better.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    As a PG, I like 2019 Josh over 2017 Nigel. Why? I expect Josh to stay within himself this year, whereas Nigel (bless his heart) tried to put the team on his shoulders against UNC, and tried to do too much.

    SG: Give me Snacks over 2017 Josh. His hoops IQ is better than Josh's was when he was a sophomore.

    SF: Toss up if it's Kispert and Jordan. Maybe a slight nod to Jordan at this point.

    PF: Rui over J3, though I love both of these guys. Rui gets the nod for offensive prowess and FT shooting, J3 is the better defensive player.

    C: Karno gets the edge over Brandon. Shem's passing was unparalled, at least until Drew Timme arrives next year. He covered the paint better than Sherwin Williams covered the world.

    Bench, as currently constructed: this year's bench is superior to 2017. Two seniors and a junior coming off the bench, with a very talented freshman to boot.

    This year's team gets my nod for now. The verdict is yet to come.
    I agree with this. I love NWG, but Perkins is the better PG.
    Love Perks as the 2 but Norvelle has a bigger upside.
    This comparison is interesting, but I take the Kispert of the last few games.
    Rui is, as much as I love JW3, the better scorer and FT shooter (and that might have won the NC)
    Karno and Clarke...how to pick between Secretariat and Seattle Slew?

    The 2019 bench is better, with Tills, Crandall, Jones and Petrusev. Collins was the only bench player better then.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    I guess the question is, do you think the 2019 Zags offense gets them past the 2017 defense? I think at full strength this team's athleticism would give the 2017 team trouble. We now have the size on the perimeter to slow down the 2017 guards. Tillie is a more well rounded 6th man than Collins though both foul a lot. Crandell is proving to be as effective defensively as Silas and more of an offensive threat. Petrusev would help us hack a Shem. Clarke and JW3 would be intriguing. Clarke is just so damn efficient and bouncy. Rui's mid-range game is even better than NWG's and they've both shown clutch. Norvell's streakiness is hard to figure and could make all the difference. A one game matchup is a tossup, but 2019 wins 2 out of 3 and 4 of 7.
    “We’re not here as a %&#* courtesy!" - Coach Few

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    Quote Originally Posted by BobZag View Post
    We never had a PG like Nigel.
    Agreed, but the way Perks is playing right now combined with Rui and Clarke offsets how good NWG was. Josh is really good this year. Really good.

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