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Thread: 3 games in and still no lineup that the whole nation was clamoring for

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    Musta been the big causing them to miss shots!!
    I know, right?

  2. #52
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    NO. wrong. And this thread has just about outlived any usefulness, right? What were you thinking when you began this thread?

  3. #53
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    The problem with the argument that Few probably won't like the Rui/Clarke/Tillie lineup because of possible defensive issues leads to another question. With Kispert being rated as the worst perimeter defender on the team according to several posters (based on metrics), could the defense really get worse if he used Rui/Clarke/Tillie? Or maybe this goes back to the argument that Jeremy Jones should be starting over Kispert? My biggest worry with using Rui/Clarke/Tillie is Tillie's career long propensity for picking up cheap fouls.

    The issue was brought up again by Fox during tonight's game, but I am sorry.......I just disagree with Fox and Few. I feel who you start is extremely important. Your starters play 25% of the game together unless one of them has foul troubles. You rarely see Few sub for a starter the first 5 minutes of each half unless a guy collects 2 fouls. 25% is a huge chunk of the game. Moreover, the 17:27 mark in the first half and the 16:23 mark in the 2nd half is just as important as crunch time. If your best players are out there at the 17:27 mark in the first half and the 16:23 mark in the 2nd half, maybe they create enough point separation to where there isn't a crunch time? Maybe you don't have to rely on kids to make pressure packed free throws, which even the greatest foul shooter in the history of the NCAA, Derek Raivio, failed to against a top 5 Oklahoma State team in 2004. I'm for avoiding the need to use your best players at the end of games.

    I am not saying that Rui/Clarke/Tillie should be starting. I have no idea who the best starting lineup is for GU. But I am opposed to this idea that who your starters are is overrated. Those starters play together too many minutes.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    The problem with the argument that Few probably won't like the Rui/Clarke/Tillie lineup because of possible defensive issues leads to another question. With Kispert being rated as the worst perimeter defender on the team according to several posters (based on metrics), could the defense really get worse if he used Rui/Clarke/Tillie? Or maybe this goes back to the argument that Jeremy Jones should be starting over Kispert? My biggest worry with using Rui/Clarke/Tillie is Tillie's career long propensity for picking up cheap fouls.

    The issue was brought up again by Fox during tonight's game, but I am sorry.......I just disagree with Fox and Few. I feel who you start is extremely important. Your starters play 25% of the game together unless one of them has foul troubles. You rarely see Few sub for a starter the first 5 minutes of each half unless a guy collects 2 fouls. 25% is a huge chunk of the game. Moreover, the 17:27 mark in the first half and the 16:23 mark in the 2nd half is just as important as crunch time. If your best players are out there at the 17:27 mark in the first half and the 16:23 mark in the 2nd half, maybe they create enough point separation to where there isn't a crunch time? Maybe you don't have to rely on kids to make pressure packed free throws, which even the greatest foul shooter in the history of the NCAA, Derek Raivio, failed to against a top 5 Oklahoma State team in 2004. I'm for avoiding the need to use your best players at the end of games.

    I am not saying that Rui/Clarke/Tillie should be starting. I have no idea who the best starting lineup is for GU. But I am opposed to this idea that who your starters are is overrated. Those starters play together too many minutes.
    100%
    OK...LETS DO IT!..

  5. #55
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    One for the ages CDC. Thanks

  6. #56
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    Same old.
    "I'm telling you Tillie knows how to play." - Mark Few

  7. #57
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    Agree CDC. That “it doesn’t matter who starts” is a balm propagated by coaches to keep their key 6-8 men happy. It rarely is 100% persuasive.

  8. #58
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    All that being said....

    Zach Collins.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    All that being said....

    Zach Collins.
    And he hated every minute of it.....

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    NO. wrong. And this thread has just about outlived any usefulness, right? What were you thinking when you began this thread?
    Huh? I was agreeing with you. Did you forget to take your meds this morning?

  11. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    The problem with the argument that Few probably won't like the Rui/Clarke/Tillie lineup because of possible defensive issues leads to another question. With Kispert being rated as the worst perimeter defender on the team according to several posters (based on metrics), could the defense really get worse if he used Rui/Clarke/Tillie? Or maybe this goes back to the argument that Jeremy Jones should be starting over Kispert? My biggest worry with using Rui/Clarke/Tillie is Tillie's career long propensity for picking up cheap fouls.

    The issue was brought up again by Fox during tonight's game, but I am sorry.......I just disagree with Fox and Few. I feel who you start is extremely important. Your starters play 25% of the game together unless one of them has foul troubles. You rarely see Few sub for a starter the first 5 minutes of each half unless a guy collects 2 fouls. 25% is a huge chunk of the game. Moreover, the 17:27 mark in the first half and the 16:23 mark in the 2nd half is just as important as crunch time. If your best players are out there at the 17:27 mark in the first half and the 16:23 mark in the 2nd half, maybe they create enough point separation to where there isn't a crunch time? Maybe you don't have to rely on kids to make pressure packed free throws, which even the greatest foul shooter in the history of the NCAA, Derek Raivio, failed to against a top 5 Oklahoma State team in 2004. I'm for avoiding the need to use your best players at the end of games.

    I am not saying that Rui/Clarke/Tillie should be starting. I have no idea who the best starting lineup is for GU. But I am opposed to this idea that who your starters are is overrated. Those starters play together too many minutes.
    Good post

  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    And he hated every minute of it.....
    I tend to agree with you. But he was a one and done whether he was starting or coming off of the bench. And the coaches knew that before he committed so I guess that helped a little bit.

  13. #63
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    Last night for a very brief period, Rui, Tillie and BC were on the court together but there was not the cohesion I expected. Maybe it was because Josh was on the bench...we might well see that lineup again this season but imo Josh would need to be playing PG along side with Zach...reminded me of PK, KW and DS playing for a few minutes in the 1st half in Okinawa...

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    The problem with the argument that Few probably won't like the Rui/Clarke/Tillie lineup because of possible defensive issues leads to another question. With Kispert being rated as the worst perimeter defender on the team according to several posters (based on metrics), could the defense really get worse if he used Rui/Clarke/Tillie? Or maybe this goes back to the argument that Jeremy Jones should be starting over Kispert? My biggest worry with using Rui/Clarke/Tillie is Tillie's career long propensity for picking up cheap fouls.

    The issue was brought up again by Fox during tonight's game, but I am sorry.......I just disagree with Fox and Few. I feel who you start is extremely important. Your starters play 25% of the game together unless one of them has foul troubles. You rarely see Few sub for a starter the first 5 minutes of each half unless a guy collects 2 fouls. 25% is a huge chunk of the game. Moreover, the 17:27 mark in the first half and the 16:23 mark in the 2nd half is just as important as crunch time. If your best players are out there at the 17:27 mark in the first half and the 16:23 mark in the 2nd half, maybe they create enough point separation to where there isn't a crunch time? Maybe you don't have to rely on kids to make pressure packed free throws, which even the greatest foul shooter in the history of the NCAA, Derek Raivio, failed to against a top 5 Oklahoma State team in 2004. I'm for avoiding the need to use your best players at the end of games.

    I am not saying that Rui/Clarke/Tillie should be starting. I have no idea who the best starting lineup is for GU. But I am opposed to this idea that who your starters are is overrated. Those starters play together too many minutes.
    Coach Few has stuck to this mantra since 2000, and I've also vehemently disagreed with the notion. And so would many Coaches, including many of my buddies in the Coaching profession, as I've repeated this line to them, or to use with their players or disgruntled parents as well.

    I think Coach Few says this to appease his players or potential players. Mark is a no BS kinda guy, but I feel this is the closest he gets to blowing smoke; some Coaches substitute the moment an opponent shows a certain defense, or a player makes a bone headed play, or doesn't like the matchup, etc. Coach Few sticks with his starters until the first TV timeout or the 15 min mark every game.

    IF he subbed early and often like many Coaches often do, I'd sincerely believe he meant it, but he doesn't -- he rides the "core" group at the start of both halves. A man of habit and routine. This would seem like most Coaches/Teams do this, and they do not, heck, several sub players at half time. Coach Few would never, unless severe foul trouble was at stake.

    As CDC mentioned, who you start is tremendously important, sets the tone, flow, feel, etc, and even moreso with a Coach Few coached team as they truly represent a significant portion of every game, no matter the opponent or situation. He has a comfort lineup and it means something to him, which is often the lineup which finishes those same games.

  15. #65
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    Treat Tillie as a shooter only, stick him in the corner, Norvell at the wing, Josh up top and Clarke and Rui alternating high and low post. I think rotating Tillie through the post just bunches it up and puts Clarke out of position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alum08 View Post
    Treat Tillie as a shooter only, stick him in the corner, Norvell at the wing, Josh up top and Clarke and Rui alternating high and low post. I think rotating Tillie through the post just bunches it up and puts Clarke out of position.
    Tillie can be a good enough shooter, and passer, to pull it off. Not to mention a good to great defender, even on perimeter (when he's not reaching or needlessly pushing).

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    And he hated every minute of it.....
    And he still ended up in the NBA. Also, is that your supposition or do you have a link that says as much?
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  18. #68
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    One point is not a trend....this time it didn't work....the next time......and the time after that....

    Few has a huge advantage over the other contenders because he can experiment and still win...

  19. #69
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    If Collins had started he'd pick up his 2nd foul before the first media time out. Coming off the bench was good for him. Just my opinion.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    And he still ended up in the NBA. Also, is that your supposition or do you have a link that says as much?
    First person knowledge.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyZag View Post
    If Collins had started he'd pick up his 2nd foul before the first media time out. Coming off the bench was good for him. Just my opinion.
    I thought it took him a while to figure things out and wasn't even starter material until halfway through the season, but this could be revisionist history. Aside from the fouls you mention, I remember him getting pushed under the hoop on free throw rebounding attempts early on.

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