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Thread: Once Tillie is back, would anyone from WCC start for Zags?

  1. #26
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    NCAA tournament experience needs to play a factor in this. Kids who have extensive experience playing in the tournament have a huge advantage. Experience with dealing with that level of severe game pressure on a team (Gonzaga) that is EXPECTED to go deep. It's a lot easier when you don't have experience and you're a 15 seed that has nothing to lose.

    Also, you need to ask.....would the kid fit into Mark Few's system offensively? I bet you there are guys playing in the NBA right now that Few wouldn't have touched coming out of HS, even if they begged Few to come to Gonzaga. The kid must be a proper fit.

    Whether people like it or not, Few isn't starting anyone over Perkins. He's one of the most winning players in NCAA history. He's played in a national title game and has tons of NCAA tourney experience. This season he's averaging 10.7ppg, 45.2% FG, 41.3% 3PT, 88% FT, 7.1apg, 3.2 rpg. And the most important stat of all for a PG, a 3.2 to 1 A/T ratio. And he's been doing it without a backup. Almost every coach would take that from a college PG at this level. Especially when his primary job is to get shots for Snacks, Clarke and Rui. There are only so many shots to go around. Even more so when Tillie returns.
    Last edited by CDC84; 12-31-2018 at 10:49 PM.

  2. #27
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    Great post.
    This post is for March Madness seeding purposes only.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingon50 View Post
    Great post.
    Concur!

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    NCAA tournament experience needs to play a factor in this. Kids who have extensive experience playing in the tournament have a huge advantage. Experience with dealing with that level of severe game pressure on a team (Gonzaga) that is EXPECTED to go deep. It's a lot easier when you don't have experience and you're a 15 seed that has nothing to lose.

    Also, you need to ask.....would the kid fit into Mark Few's system offensively? I bet you there are guys playing in the NBA right now that Few wouldn't have touched coming out of HS, even if they begged Few to come to Gonzaga. The kid must be a proper fit.

    Whether people like it or not, Few isn't starting anyone over Perkins. He's one of the most winning players in NCAA history. He's played in a national title game and has tons of NCAA tourney experience. This season he's averaging 10.7ppg, 45.2% FG, 41.3% 3PT, 88% FT, 7.1apg, 3.2 rpg. And the most important stat of all for a PG, a 3.2 to 1 A/T ratio. And he's been doing it without a backup. Almost every coach would take that from a college PG at this level. Especially when his primary job is to get shots for Snacks, Clarke and Rui. There are only so many shots to go around. Even more so when Tillie returns.
    The mutual trust between Few and Perkins is unbreakable. That's as it should be, after being together for five years. JP knows what Coach wants on the court, and is delivering it this year. Gone is the "Bad Perk", the flashy guard who loved to make the high risk pass that would make the highlight reels. The veteran point guard we have today has figured it out, make the bread and butter plays that limit turnovers. His teammates are doing a better job at getting themselves in good positions to receive the ball.

    I'm glad Josh is experiencing that relationship with his coach. Looking back on my life, I can recall only a few working relationships (outside of family) like that: my years with Black Dan Brajcich and Father Tony at GU, a Colonel who I worked for four years in Germany and Fort Bliss, and my supervisor for four years at the FDIC. There were a few others encompassing much shorter stints, but it still amounts to less than 40% of my adult life.

    OTOH, I was lucky, as I'm sure there are many others on this Board who mostly worked for REMFs.

  5. #30
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    Profound thoughts from CDC and TZF regarding pertinent experience, coaching, mentoring, leadership and relationships which probably all of us have experienced in our lives to achieve whatever success we've had. Of course the recipients of that coaching and mentoring and leadership needed to be "open" to receive the valuable coaching to rise in achievements whether as a college basketball player or in business or the professions and of course in our families. We hear coaches and commentators talk about players who are "so very coachable." Reminds us of Few or Lloyd saying the international players tend not to have that "entitlement" mentality that some young American kids have which makes them more coachable and responsible to listen and grow in their chosen athletic field. That's not to say US kids aren't coachable also but you get the point. We all probably had favorite professors and/or Jesuits at GU who had a hand in shaping us and if we were lucky like TZF said, supervisors in our work environment history who mentored us for success.

    The best coaches and mentors any of us have had, IMO, have given their efforts usually not focused only on making the coach "a star" but the training and coaching was given selflessly to benefit the player or the person under their guidance. Coach Few even though a very competitive person, is IMO one of the most humble "leaders of men" I've observed. And certainly Josh has, as CDC says, figured that out and excelled this year because of his GU years on the court under Few. The many players over the years we respect and remember for their contributions to the Zags are too numerous to mention here but they figured out things just like Josh has done for us this year.

    How lucky we are then as Zag fans to watch the results of good coaching, good mentorship, good leadership and caring responsibility we have from our MBB staff to bring along these young men to be a nationally respected program (which is not perfect) but we seem to be approaching that goal every year. The mistakes we observe in games from time to time by players and then the improvement in players we see as more games are played I believe is a reflection of the progress and the influence Few, Lloyd and staff and all the former coaches, Greer, Rice, Gialotti, etc. have had to build the Zag nation which is respected probably even in Dukie land.

    Thank you Pastor Norm Few for raising such a good guy, a caring teacher and a great coach.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSERE View Post
    Assuming a starting lineup of:

    Perkins
    Norvell
    Rui
    Tillie
    Clarke

    Would anyone from another WCC team start for the Zags?

    Jordan Ford? Seems like the most logical choice, but would you start him over Perkins? 3 assist to 2 TO ratio isn't anywhere close to JP. Would he start over Norvell?
    Yoeli Childs? Could see him starting over Tillie.
    Frankie Ferrari? Love the name, just not the game.
    Isaiah Pineiro? Could also start over Tillie. Unless we get the Tillie that showed up in last years WCC tourny.
    James Batemon? Dont see him starting over either of our guards. Low 3pt fg % and ast/to ratio.

    I'll go as far as to say that the Zags would beat the WCC all star team 2 out of 3 times.

    Not sure how to make this a poll, but would love to see the results of a poll on this.
    I don't think Tillie starts for us when healthy.


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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Vulture View Post
    I don't think Tillie starts for us when healthy.


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    i agree he is a much better 6th man than starter type. He seems to engage in the flow better, stay involved, and is so incredibly versatile to fill what is needed. His best game last season was when he came off the bench to score 28 pts.

    However, I do think he starts once he's 100%. Of course not at the expense of Clarke or Rui, but Kispert. Move Rui to the 3, but still use him in the post on offense. Move Tillie to floating perimeter and high low option. Last years "Center" playing perimeter, but he could be the best shooter on the team, and able to shoot over anyone. Plus, we can isolate him when his play is called.

    Given our flex, now hybrid iso offense, its pretty seamless to use any of the front court (3, 4, or 5) interchangeably. Having Clarke and Rui as our forwards have helped this along as well.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by raise the zag View Post
    i agree he is a much better 6th man than starter type. He seems to engage in the flow better, stay involved, and is so incredibly versatile to fill what is needed. His best game last season was when he came off the bench to score 28 pts.

    However, I do think he starts once he's 100%. Of course not at the expense of Clarke or Rui, but Kispert. Move Rui to the 3, but still use him in the post on offense. Move Tillie to floating perimeter and high low option. Last years "Center" playing perimeter, but he could be the best shooter on the team, and able to shoot over anyone. Plus, we can isolate him when his play is called.

    Given our flex, now hybrid iso offense, its pretty seamless to use any of the front court (3, 4, or 5) interchangeably. Having Clarke and Rui as our forwards have helped this along as well.
    I don't think they are going to mess with the starting lineup personally. I would imagine they will split the 4/5 spot minutes between Clark, Rui, and Tillie. Sure, Rui could potentially play minutes at the 3 but I don't think he will play there very much. Maybe I'm off base, just what I see happening.

  9. #34
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    If Tillie is 100% you think Coaches want him on the bench first 5 min of the game and first 5 minutes of the second half?

    I remember some on this board thought Clarke was gonna come off the bench.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    If Tillie is 100% you think Coaches want him on the bench first 5 min of the game and first 5 minutes of the second half?
    if it allows him and Clarke to be on the floor the last 10 minutes of each half I would suspect they do
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    if it allows him and Clarke to be on the floor the last 10 minutes of each half I would suspect they do
    if Clarke can do it why not Tillie?

  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProVeeZag View Post
    I'm impressed with Isaiah Piniero of USD. Redshirt senior with lots of experience. Had 30 and 10 vs WSU, 21 and 4 vs Ole Miss in 28 minutes before fouling out, 17 and 9 vs Long Beach. He'd have to be considered worthy of starting.
    Piniero is shooting the ball well and seem to really hustle. I've noticed the last few games he has been struggling by trying to do too much. He has 32 ast. to 45 t.o. this season. Only 12 ast. to 25 t.o. the last 8 games and 4 ast. 14 t.o. the last 5 games. Not playing well against tougher competition.

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    if Clarke can do it why not Tillie?
    We have seen Clarke holding back to be able to be on the court at end of halfs, possibly due to lack of bodies to replace or provide relief
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    We have seen Clarke holding back to be able to be on the court at end of halfs, possibly due to lack of bodies to replace or provide relief
    Disagree with this assumption. Clarke is on pace to break blocking records with his aggressive play without Tillie coming off the bench. Currently 5th in the Nation

    also makes the list of double/doubles in Nation with 5. https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketbal...individual/556

    agree to disagree

    shall see in a month or so )

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    If Tillie is 100% you think Coaches want him on the bench first 5 min of the game and first 5 minutes of the second half?

    I remember some on this board thought Clarke was gonna come off the bench.
    If you are referring to my post, the answer is yes. I really don't think there is a set amount of time for substitutions and I think it matters who is on the floor when the game is on the line. Right now, Clarke and Rui are the only 4/5 guys that Coach Few is comfortable with in important spots. I can't imagine his priority is to mess with what is working to make sure Tillie starts. It's not about who is the better player but who is in the better lineup. I personally think that Clarke, Rui, Kispert is a more balance setup than Clarke, Tillie, Rui. I also think there is huge value allowing those three to rotate which limits minutes and fatigue in the longterm. Yes, I think we will see those three on the floor at times, I just don't think that lineup is the starting lineup.

    I think of it like when Collins came off the bench, he was still in when the games were on the line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by White lightning View Post
    Piniero is shooting the ball well and seem to really hustle. I've noticed the last few games he has been struggling by trying to do too much. He has 32 ast. to 45 t.o. this season. Only 12 ast. to 25 t.o. the last 8 games and 4 ast. 14 t.o. the last 5 games. Not playing well against tougher competition.

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    Thx for rounding out the assessment of Piniero by adding in the assist and turnover stats. I was looking primarily at scoring and rebounding output against the better opposition. His turnover numbers, especially recently, are not good. Perhaps he is being called on to do too much; I don't see him as generating much in the way of assists since he is going to be more on the receiving end of those assists.
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  17. #42
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    Definitely a host of good Zags this season .... whenever I see a list of these 11 players I wonder how the heck we can lose:

    Perkins, Tillie, Kispert, Norvell, Clarke, Hachimura, Jones, Petrusev, Crandall, Ayayi, Foster .....
    http://www.fowlplaces.com/zags/GoZagsTinySignGuyGlassesColor.png

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSERE View Post
    Assuming a starting lineup of:

    Perkins
    Norvell
    Rui
    Tillie
    Clarke

    Would anyone from another WCC team start for the Zags?

    Jordan Ford? Seems like the most logical choice, but would you start him over Perkins? 3 assist to 2 TO ratio isn't anywhere close to JP. Would he start over Norvell?
    Yoeli Childs? Could see him starting over Tillie.
    Frankie Ferrari? Love the name, just not the game.
    Isaiah Pineiro? Could also start over Tillie. Unless we get the Tillie that showed up in last years WCC tourny.
    James Batemon? Dont see him starting over either of our guards. Low 3pt fg % and ast/to ratio.

    I'll go as far as to say that the Zags would beat the WCC all star team 2 out of 3 times.

    Not sure how to make this a poll, but would love to see the results of a poll on this.
    Yoeli over Tillie is laughable. Yoeli has no defense and no shot. Tillie is a block party and wet from three. Don't need to argue the semantics. There's a reason Tillie is a lock first rounder, and Yoeli isn't on any draft boards.

  19. #44
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    I think the answer to a couple of these "Player A starting over Player B" are based on nominal differences and depend on lineup/fit; I also think they somewhat depend on what school you are a fan of. For example, it may be fair to say that no other player in the WCC would start over any of our current starters. However, I don't think that automatically means that every one of our starters would start at every single school in the league.

    I prefer to leave it at we are clearly, by far, the most talented team in the league, but there are some other fine players on teams not named Gonzaga.

  20. #45
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    Would we beat an all star team of the remaining players in the WCC?

  21. #46

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    A WCC All-Star team (sans Gonzaga) would create a formidable opponent that we could beat.

    Question: Expanding beyond the current WCC, if you could pick any Gonzaga alum to replace someone in the starting 5, who would you pick, if any? Would there be any Zag alum that could make this current roster definitively better?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PCZ_Frites View Post
    A WCC All-Star team (sans Gonzaga) would create a formidable opponent that we could beat.

    Question: Expanding beyond the current WCC, if you could pick any Gonzaga alum to replace someone in the starting 5, who would you pick, if any? Would there be any Zag alum that could make this current roster definitively better?
    Collins over Clarke?
    KO over Clarke.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCZ_Frites View Post
    A WCC All-Star team (sans Gonzaga) would create a formidable opponent that we could beat.

    Question: Expanding beyond the current WCC, if you could pick any Gonzaga alum to replace someone in the starting 5, who would you pick, if any? Would there be any Zag alum that could make this current roster definitively better?
    Great question. Although Adam is probably the best player in program history, his strength was obviously scoring and that's not what this team needs. Przemek is another candidate, but Ron's skills fit our current style better. I'm going with Rony.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSERE View Post
    Collins over Clarke?
    KO over Clarke.
    Bol Kong over everybody.


  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Bol Kong over everybody.


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