Originally posted by CDC84
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Comments from Mike Roth re: Hanging jersey numbers in the rafters
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“No team in the country has a better winning percentage against power conference teams since 2017 than Gonzaga... the Zags are playing above average teams in the best leagues in the country and winning 78% of the time.”
-Ken Pomeroy-
https://www.ksl.com/article/50342950...in-perspective
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Originally posted by Robzagnut View PostThat would be Bill Russell. Height of a center, speed and quickness of a guard. 11 championships in his 13 years of playing in the NBA, winning the championship his rookie year. So many rings that when he wears them all he has to put 2 on one finger. He also lead San Francisco to 2 NCAA championships. He was so dominate defensively the NCAA widened the lanes.
13 championships in 15 years will never be broken.
Secondly, Bill Russell was the starting center on some of the GREATEST NBA TEAMS of all time, which is why the Celtics won so many NBA Championships! I would say that if he and Wilt switched teams, then Wilt would have won all those rings and Bill might have one or two, because Wilt DOMINATED Bill EVERYTIME they played BUT the Celtics won all but one championship (1966) when the two played for the Celtics and 76ers.
In addition, I believe the free throw lane was widened because of Wilt - the original width of the lane was narrower than today’s NCAA lane and was eventually moved to where the NBA lane’s width is today. and the rule that the free throw had to touch the rim was because Wilt would “shoot” the ball off the backboard, catch it and then dunk.
I am also of the opinion that Larry Bird was the best Celtic to date.
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Originally posted by Bogozags View PostFirst off...AMMO and Vandersloot’s numbers should be in the rafters.
Originally posted by Bogozags View PostSecondly, Bill Russell was the starting center on some of the GREATEST NBA TEAMS of all time, which is why the Celtics won so many NBA Championships! I would say that if he and Wilt switched teams, then Wilt would have won all those rings and Bill might have one or two, because Wilt DOMINATED Bill EVERYTIME they played BUT the Celtics won all but one championship (1966) when the two played for the Celtics and 76ers.
Russell lost the battles, but won the wars. Russell's team beat Wilt's team every time, but one.
Originally posted by Bogozags View PostIn addition, I believe the free throw lane was widened because of Wilt - the original width of the lane was narrower than today’s NCAA lane and was eventually moved to where the NBA lane’s width is today. and the rule that the free throw had to touch the rim was because Wilt would “shoot” the ball off the backboard, catch it and then dunk.
"The NCAA did in fact rewrite rules in response to Russell's dominant play; the lane was widened for his junior year. After he graduated, the NCAA rules committee instituted a second new rule to counter the play of big men like Russell; basket interference was now prohibited."
Originally posted by Bogozags View PostI am also of the opinion that Larry Bird was the best Celtic to date.
I've seen this debate numerous times and Celtic fans know who is the best Celtic.
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I like the idea of fewer retired but more players recognized. Adam Morrison deserves to have his retired, but for 10 to 20years down the way, people like Karnowski, Sabbonis, Nigel, and others that helped start this run also should be recognized. Start by doing four or five and then each year have some voting like they have for putting players into the hall of fame. And this would include coaches,but only after they retire. This would be someone like Hank Anderson.
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[QUOTE=CDC84;1418707]And did it while coming to America from a different country across the Atlantic.[/QUOTE
Yes, and thanks for adding the language barrier to the list. Shem speaks fluid English and boy, English is a long way from Polish dialect. Not as far off as Japanese I believe, but still a real stretch. If all our foreign players can do as well as Shem
with English, they can all get great jobs in their country’s diplomatic corps. Gonzaga, door way to world diplomacy!
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Originally posted by Robzagnut View PostI agree. Then Karno should quickly follow.
There's no coincidence that the Celtics didn't start winning until they got Russell. Yes, Wilt dominated Russell, but he dominated everyone. But, Russell made Wilt's number manageable. Russell tells one story where one of his teammates got into Wilt's face and was taunting him. Russell was pissed and pulled him aside and asked him what he was doing? He said you make Wilt mad and I'M the one who has to suffer!
Russell lost the battles, but won the wars. Russell's team beat Wilt's team every time, but one.
Wrong. Look it up. (I did it for you...)
"The NCAA did in fact rewrite rules in response to Russell's dominant play; the lane was widened for his junior year. After he graduated, the NCAA rules committee instituted a second new rule to counter the play of big men like Russell; basket interference was now prohibited."
My father was a huge Celtics fan, so I grew up a Celtics fan. I've read books on Red Auerbach, Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, John 'Hondo' Havlicek, and Larry Bird. I'm a member of two Celtic forums and post there too.
I've seen this debate numerous times and Celtic fans know who is the best Celtic.
Think I read somewhere that, the starting five of the top 50 players of all time would be Kareem, Magic, Michael, Larry and Dr. J.
By the way, I was not talking about the NCAA widening of the key but rather the NBA.
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This is an interesting topic because each "era" of post 1997 served as a stepping stone to where we are now, and without them we never would have achieved our current success. Prior to Austin Daye, Kelly O, etc, Gonzaga was a guard first, big man 2nd era and the likes of Matt Santangelo (and others) were just as "important" as our potential players of the year today in terms of how important it was for GU basketball. Matt was never going to be an NBA star, but without him we would potentially be in a very different place. Do I think you retire his jersey? Probably not, but it's fun to discuss where honors start and end. Do you judge a jersey retirement in comparison to GU basketball standards, or national standards? If Brandon Clark turned into the player of the year and single handedly won us a national title, but is a grad transfer, does that even warrant consideration because he was at Gonzaga for like a minute.Krozman
GU student 1996-2000
Law Student 2000-2003
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I gotta weigh in on this one. My family moved to a little town north of Philly in '66 when I was 12, but I was already a Sixers fan as a kid in Minnesota before that. Went to a bunch of games at the Spectrum in the late 60's. I idolized Billy Cunningham and as a fellow lefty playing the same position in jr high. I patterned my game after his.
First, Wilt never dominated Russell. He did put up bigger scoring numbers, but Wilt was always about his ego and his stats. (Think 20,000, and I don't mean points or rebounds). Even led the league in assists once in his later years just to show he could do it. Russell was about winning plays, as his two championships at USF to go w/ his 11 w/ the Celts proves. Much as I loved the Sixers in those days, it's my contention that if you flipped Wilt and Bill, the Sixers would have approached those 11 titles instead of having one.
In addition to Wilt, the Sixers had 6'9, 260 lb pf Luke Jackson, the first true power forward in the game and the prototype for those who followed at the position. He was paired with Chet the Jet Walker, an all star, with all timer Cunningham coming off the bench as 6th man. HOF'er Hall Greer, 20k pt scorer, was in the backcourt with Wally Jones, backed up by Matt Goukas.
Celts had the Jones boys at guard, KC and Sam, who matched up ok w/ Greer and Jones. And they had Hondo at 6th man, who matched up ok w/ Cunningham, but BC was the better athlete imo and more explosive going to the hoop. Bailey Howell was a good scorer at forward for the Celts, but Don Nelson and Satch Sanders, the other two rotation guys for the Celts, wouldn't have cracked the Sixers' rotation in the late 60's.
The talent was on the Sixers' side by a good margin, but they only cashed in on it one time. Russell dominated the game like no one else ever has on the defensive end. They put in the goaltending rule because of him, not Wilt. He would block a shot and redirect it to a position where a streaking Jones could pick up the blocked shot for a breakaway layup. He made everyone around him better in a way that no other big save one season of a healthy Walton ever has.
This is the point of view of a kid who loved the Sixers and hated the Celtics, because they always beat my team. But what's true is true. IMO.
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Great narrative, Maynard. Thanks for sharing
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe GUB Resource Library: Links to: Stats, Blogs, Brackets, & More. . .
“They go to school. They do their homework. They shake hands. They say please and thank you. But once you throw that ball up, they will rip your heart out and watch you bleed.” -- Jay Bilas
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Originally posted by maynard g krebs View PostI gotta weigh in on this one. My family moved to a little town north of Philly in '66 when I was 12, but I was already a Sixers fan as a kid in Minnesota before that. Went to a bunch of games at the Spectrum in the late 60's. I idolized Billy Cunningham and as a fellow lefty playing the same position in jr high. I patterned my game after his.
First, Wilt never dominated Russell. He did put up bigger scoring numbers, but Wilt was always about his ego and his stats. (Think 20,000, and I don't mean points or rebounds). Even led the league in assists once in his later years just to show he could do it. Russell was about winning plays, as his two championships at USF to go w/ his 11 w/ the Celts proves. Much as I loved the Sixers in those days, it's my contention that if you flipped Wilt and Bill, the Sixers would have approached those 11 titles instead of having one.
In addition to Wilt, the Sixers had 6'9, 260 lb pf Luke Jackson, the first true power forward in the game and the prototype for those who followed at the position. He was paired with Chet the Jet Walker, an all star, with all timer Cunningham coming off the bench as 6th man. HOF'er Hall Greer, 20k pt scorer, was in the backcourt with Wally Jones, backed up by Matt Goukas.
Celts had the Jones boys at guard, KC and Sam, who matched up ok w/ Greer and Jones. And they had Hondo at 6th man, who matched up ok w/ Cunningham, but BC was the better athlete imo and more explosive going to the hoop. Bailey Howell was a good scorer at forward for the Celts, but Don Nelson and Satch Sanders, the other two rotation guys for the Celts, wouldn't have cracked the Sixers' rotation in the late 60's.
The talent was on the Sixers' side by a good margin, but they only cashed in on it one time. Russell dominated the game like no one else ever has on the defensive end. They put in the goaltending rule because of him, not Wilt. He would block a shot and redirect it to a position where a streaking Jones could pick up the blocked shot for a breakaway layup. He made everyone around him better in a way that no other big save one season of a healthy Walton ever has.
This is the point of view of a kid who loved the Sixers and hated the Celtics, because they always beat my team. But what's true is true. IMO.
Thanks Maynard. Backs up what my father told me for years and years.
And I agree about Walton and the Portland Trailblazers. That was a special team the year they won the title. They were something like 50-10 the next year until Walton got hurt. Have never seen a center with such great passing skills and perfect rebounding technique.
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Originally posted by Bogozags View PostThink I read somewhere that, the starting five of the top 50 players of all time would be Kareem, Magic, Michael, Larry and Dr. J.
If you go to a panel of experts like the one from Sports Illustrated:
Michael? LeBron? Bird? Magic? SI.com asked its NBA writers who would be in their alltime starting five.
You will see that Bill Russell makes 3 of 5 lists while Bird makes 2 of 5 lists.
My top 5 are:
PG - Magic Johnson
SG - Michael Jordan
SF - LeBron James
PF - Tim Duncan
C - Bill Russell
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I remember Russell at the very least holding his own defending Chamberlain and more often than not coming out on top. JMO.Birddog
Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
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Originally posted by MontanaCoyote View PostMagic, Michael, Bird, Russell, Baylor. Can’t leave Baylor off the list. His stats; scoring, rebounds and assists in aggregate, still better than any other small forward.
I will lose his argument.Birddog
Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
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Originally posted by Birddog View PostEverybody is forgetting the Big "O" too.
I, Like Oscar, am “old school” on this. So no way he or I wins this argument.
But I was fortunate enough to watch both Elgin and Oscar play college ball and pro ball in person, so I’m a true believer.
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