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Thread: 2020 Jalen Suggs: Verbal Commit on 1/3/20

  1. #2151
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    Gonzaga Total Enrollment: 7,563

    Villanove Total Enrollment: 11,023

    https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges...niversity-3778

  2. #2152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdawg View Post
    Gonzaga Total Enrollment: 7,563

    Villanove Total Enrollment: 11,023

    https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges...niversity-3778
    Duke undergraduate enrollment in 2019 was 6,682, what's the point?

  3. #2153
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    I want to go on record stating that a) I really like Suggs and am excited to see him play, and b) I’m not usually too fond of anyone referring to themselves as a superstar— even bona fide superstars. I don’t think these are mutually exclusive things. You can like someone and still dislike something they say. I hope that his comments don’t carry persons away too far.

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    We were looking for someone to find Dukes undergrad enrollment so we can compare it to total Gonzaga and Villanova enrollment.......thank you jazz for your assistance with this.

    Just in case anyone wanted to compare apples to apples ---Duke total enrollment is 16,606.

    Just saying a good number of people go to school at these three locations and they have solid basketball programs.

  5. #2155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdawg View Post
    We were looking for someone to find Dukes undergrad enrollment so we can compare it to total Gonzaga and Villanova enrollment.......thank you jazz for your assistance with this.

    Just in case anyone wanted to compare apples to apples ---Duke total enrollment is 16,606.

    Just saying a good number of people go to school at these three locations and they have solid basketball programs.
    Apples to apples would be comparing undergraduate enrollment as undergrads are ostensibly the main reason for intercollegiate sports and the athletes themselves .... well even u get the picture.

  6. #2156
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    My complaint or issue (last post, prior page) was not about Sugg's view of himself (call it humble, or arrogant, or whatever, I didn't address or pretend to know his views of himself).

    My disagreement with Suggs' assessment that not having a singular more elite or superstar college player is what has kept GU from winning a championship. As other have said, we were 90 seconds away, and it took some TERRIBLE play, worst officiating, and a sprained ankle to lose a heartbreaker. That year was had an all-american point guard. In 2013, 2015, and 2019 I felt like our team was also a legit contender. Those years included 3 NBA lottery picks, including another all-american college player. Furthermore, we don't see a requirement for final 4, title game, or champion teams to even include lottery picks or all americans.

    So while I'm excited about Suggs, and I am not making any judgements about his confidence, I think he's mistaken in saying that lack of a single star player has kept GU from a title. And I hope he doesn't rely on that mistaken belief to try and play the role of a bigger single star than GU has had before.

    Here are the last 8 teams to play for a title. Who was the star college guy any better than NWG or Olynyk or Brandon Clarke?

    UNC/Villanova '16
    UNC/GU '17
    Villanova/MIchigan '18
    T-Tech/Virginia '19
    Baylor/GU/Kansas/SDSU?/FSU? '20

    Last year, with 3 lottery picks and maybe the best single college bball player/season in (ever?) Duke barely barely got out of the S16 vs Vtech, and it took some terrible whistles and crazy luck to survive the R32 vs UCF. They didn't play for the title or make the final 4, losing to an MSU team with a bunch of reality nobodies.
    Thank you, LTown. Exactly.

    I am and will root for Suggs 110% but him stating Zags have never won a natty for lack of an elite, superstar talent but fear not ZagNation, I’m gonna be that guy is something other than confidence and swag. Just a little too much ‘me’ for me.
    It is their time....their team...I just get to watch. - Bartruff1

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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzagasaurusFlex View Post
    Thank you, LTown. Exactly.

    I am and will root for Suggs 110% but him stating Zags have never won a natty for lack of an elite, superstar talent but fear not ZagNation, I’m gonna be that guy is something other than confidence and swag. Just a little too much ‘me’ for me.
    Incidentally, in what I think is the best college basketball radio or podcast show (CBS EYE ON COLLEGE BASKETBALL), Gary Parish and Matt Norlander just talked about how so many champions and runner up teams featuring returning players who were/are fringe or 2nd round NBA draft types, but who return to their teams to play again. (Think Dotson or Winston last year, or Rui the year before, maybe Petrusev, Ayayi, CK next year) but not many national champions or runner up teams have freshman PGs.

    https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aH...EegQICxAE&ep=6

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    I'd be over the moon if Suggsy is as good as DD, Ammo, KO, the Bonus, NWG, Rui or Clarkie.
    Better order your moon boots now then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogozags View Post
    Isn’t signing day Wednesday?
    I thought I read that April 15th would be the next time recruits would be able to sign Letters!?!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cggonzaga View Post
    Better order your moon boots now then.
    And one rhinestone studded glove?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdawg View Post
    Gonzaga Total Enrollment: 7,563

    Villanove Total Enrollment: 11,023

    https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges...niversity-3778
    Undergraduate enrollment:
    Gonzaga: 5,317
    Villanova: 6,917

    The point remains either way. These aren't drastic differences where the line is somehow drawn around Gonzaga for being too small.
    Agent provocateur

  12. #2162
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonuvazag View Post
    Undergraduate enrollment:
    Gonzaga: 5,317
    Villanova: 6,917

    The point remains either way. These aren't drastic differences where the line is somehow drawn around Gonzaga for being too small.
    Exactly. But the defensive argument here in the past has often been that no one in the media truly appreciates that tiny little GU does very well to compete with the rich, huge, multi-resourced P6 schools. Can't have it both ways, or either way, actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Exactly. But the defensive argument here in the past has often been that no one in the media truly appreciates that tiny little GU does very well to compete with the rich, huge, multi-resourced P6 schools. Can't have it both ways, or either way, actually.
    Philadelphia and Spokane are very different. Media market and population matter also

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    Quote Originally Posted by YankMyZAG View Post
    Philadelphia and Spokane are very different. Media market and population matter also
    OK, but at this point this just seems like ridiculous excuses. Many P6 schools are college towns that exist in the middle of nowhere. Do people really believe there's a magic formula of enrollment and media market that permits a school to be big enough and important enough to win a national championship in the NCAA's eyes? ... and Gonzaga just happens to not fit that formula is why it's never won?
    Agent provocateur

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    I honestly can't remember an NCAA championship team where the team's best player was a freshman point guard. It hasn't happened. The closest I can remember was Derrick Rose at Memphis. While Suggs is a top 10-15 prospect, he is not a generational talent and he won't be a lottery pick. He will most likely be a good guard for Gonzaga, with more talented plays than previous Gonzaga guards because of his unique skills and athleticism, but along with plenty of boneheaded turnovers and ill-advised shots because he will be a freshman guard. My question is how will he and his dad react when he has to sit on the bench in a second half because his grasp of the offense isn't quite what Few wants from his head point guard and he rides with Ayayi instead? How will Few, a fairly rigid coach, work on rearranging the offense in favor of a penetrating guard that needs plenty of spacing in stead of the staple pick and roll into post ups? Suggs will be good, but I can guarantee he won't be as good as NWG was that final four season. NWG was a fourth year college player who had already had tremendous success at UW as an individual player. I would expect Suggs to have a season much more akin to NWG's sophomore year at UW. He will be good, but the strength of next year's team will be the talented returning players. I would be bet more money on Ayayi being our best guard next year than Suggs. Calling yourself a superstar does open you up to criticism. That criticism is justified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonuvazag View Post
    OK, but at this point this just seems like ridiculous excuses. Many P6 schools are college towns that exist in the middle of nowhere. Do people really believe there's a magic formula of enrollment and media market that permits a school to be big enough and important enough to win a national championship in the NCAA's eyes? ... and Gonzaga just happens to not fit that formula is why it's never won?
    I think that it's part of the reason why the Zags can't get into a bigger conference. Those power 6 schools in the middle of nowhere have history and football on their side. Also state funding and bigger budgets. The Zags are overcoming it i believe and have carved out their own niche.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    I honestly can't remember an NCAA championship team where the team's best player was a freshman point guard. It hasn't happened. The closest I can remember was Derrick Rose at Memphis. While Suggs is a top 10-15 prospect, he is not a generational talent and he won't be a lottery pick. He will most likely be a good guard for Gonzaga, with more talented plays than previous Gonzaga guards because of his unique skills and athleticism, but along with plenty of boneheaded turnovers and ill-advised shots because he will be a freshman guard. My question is how will he and his dad react when he has to sit on the bench in a second half because his grasp of the offense isn't quite what Few wants from his head point guard and he rides with Ayayi instead? How will Few, a fairly rigid coach, work on rearranging the offense in favor of a penetrating guard that needs plenty of spacing in stead of the staple pick and roll into post ups? Suggs will be good, but I can guarantee he won't be as good as NWG was that final four season. NWG was a fourth year college player who had already had tremendous success at UW as an individual player. I would expect Suggs to have a season much more akin to NWG's sophomore year at UW. He will be good, but the strength of next year's team will be the talented returning players. I would be bet more money on Ayayi being our best guard next year than Suggs. Calling yourself a superstar does open you up to criticism. That criticism is justified.
    Really appreciate this view. It can be hard to balance realism with excited optimism. Next year's team is going to be stacked up and down. Suggs will be a very positive contributor. Let's just call it that.

  18. #2168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    I honestly can't remember an NCAA championship team where the team's best player was a freshman point guard. It hasn't happened. The closest I can remember was Derrick Rose at Memphis. While Suggs is a top 10-15 prospect, he is not a generational talent and he won't be a lottery pick. He will most likely be a good guard for Gonzaga, with more talented plays than previous Gonzaga guards because of his unique skills and athleticism, but along with plenty of boneheaded turnovers and ill-advised shots because he will be a freshman guard. My question is how will he and his dad react when he has to sit on the bench in a second half because his grasp of the offense isn't quite what Few wants from his head point guard and he rides with Ayayi instead? How will Few, a fairly rigid coach, work on rearranging the offense in favor of a penetrating guard that needs plenty of spacing in stead of the staple pick and roll into post ups? Suggs will be good, but I can guarantee he won't be as good as NWG was that final four season. NWG was a fourth year college player who had already had tremendous success at UW as an individual player. I would expect Suggs to have a season much more akin to NWG's sophomore year at UW. He will be good, but the strength of next year's team will be the talented returning players. I would be bet more money on Ayayi being our best guard next year than Suggs. Calling yourself a superstar does open you up to criticism. That criticism is justified.
    Hurls came the closest..........and Suggs is no Hurley, and certainly no D Rose.

    As a freshman in the 1989-90 season, Hurley started all thirty-eight games and collected 288 assists, the most in school history. He showed unusual poise in leading Duke to the Final Four.

  19. #2169
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    This thread is one of the saddest I've ever seen - and that's saying a lot. I just don't understand how people can attack kids, especially ones that haven't even stepped on the court yet. SMH
    “When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes.”

    ~ Desiderius Erasmus

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    If we're looking for just a highly touted freshman point guard on a championship team, Marquis Teague with Kentucky in 2012 could fit the bill. But I don't think anyone would call him the best player on that team.

    With the team that Gonzaga is returning, really just need a solid contributor at point so I get the concern that Suggs could make things worse by trying to do more than is needed. But I could it see working out well if he mostly stays within himself and judiciously picks the moments to be the hero.
    Agent provocateur

  21. #2171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    I honestly can't remember an NCAA championship team where the team's best player was a freshman point guard. It hasn't happened. The closest I can remember was Derrick Rose at Memphis. While Suggs is a top 10-15 prospect, he is not a generational talent and he won't be a lottery pick. He will most likely be a good guard for Gonzaga, with more talented plays than previous Gonzaga guards because of his unique skills and athleticism, but along with plenty of boneheaded turnovers and ill-advised shots because he will be a freshman guard. My question is how will he and his dad react when he has to sit on the bench in a second half because his grasp of the offense isn't quite what Few wants from his head point guard and he rides with Ayayi instead? How will Few, a fairly rigid coach, work on rearranging the offense in favor of a penetrating guard that needs plenty of spacing in stead of the staple pick and roll into post ups? Suggs will be good, but I can guarantee he won't be as good as NWG was that final four season. NWG was a fourth year college player who had already had tremendous success at UW as an individual player. I would expect Suggs to have a season much more akin to NWG's sophomore year at UW. He will be good, but the strength of next year's team will be the talented returning players. I would be bet more money on Ayayi being our best guard next year than Suggs. Calling yourself a superstar does open you up to criticism. That criticism is justified.
    Tyus Jones was the Final Four MVP and the best player on the court in 2015. He is from...... MN.

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    There are a few guys that come to mind when I think of freshmen point guards. Kenny Anderson, Jason Kidd, Derrick Rose, Bobby Hurley, Steph Curry, Iverson, Chris Jackson ... Some of them played in national championship games, others the final four ... but some didn't have around them what Suggs will have surrounding him (Steph Curry was excellent as a freshman point guard, but Davidson didn't have to offer what GU does in the rest of that lineup). If Suggs equals Kenny Anderson's freshman year or even TJ Ford's, we are probably in the Final Four hoping the ball bounces our way.

    I don't see why the #1 or #2 PG in his class couldn't produce at that level, but I doubt it will be needed in this case as he will be surrounded by veteran players elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YankMyZAG View Post
    I think that it's part of the reason why the Zags can't get into a bigger conference. Those power 6 schools in the middle of nowhere have history and football on their side. Also state funding and bigger budgets. The Zags are overcoming it i believe and have carved out their own niche.
    How many of those big schools in the middle of nowhere have won an ncaa basketball title in the last 25 years ? A small school located in the middle of nowhere west of the Mississippi will not be allowed to win the ncaa basketball championship, I will believe it only when I see it. Those schools from the big confrences will sell more merchandise and will put more people in the stands, thus they will make more money. The ncaa is about making money, not who the best team is. If the Zags were located east of the Mississippi they would have more media behind them and would stand a better chance of being allowed to win a championship. That what I said allowed. Then they were bailed out against us. All this all occured after they were caught in the biggest academic in the history of college sports. The popularity of teams by the media wins more championships than actual tallent, or should I say politics. I will keep saying this until I am proven wrong. Some of you can go on believing that the ncaa treats all schools equal if you want but it just isn't that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzagit View Post
    Tyus Jones was the Final Four MVP and the best player on the court in 2015. He is from...... MN.
    Tyus was a distant third, potentially fourth best player on that Duke team. He was good, but he wasn't anywhere close to being the best player on that team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    And one rhinestone studded glove?
    Exactly.

    I think some are underestimating Mr. Suggs. He is a flat out baller and super competitor. Comes across as someone that hates to lose. We haven’t seen that combination since NWG imo. Add superior athleticism to that mix and he’s going to be someone the Zag community never forgets. I also think he is a lottery pick at some point.

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