Page 88 of 93 FirstFirst ... 3878848586878889909192 ... LastLast
Results 2,176 to 2,200 of 2320

Thread: 2020 Jalen Suggs: Verbal Commit on 1/3/20

  1. #2176
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,050

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    Tyus was a distant third, potentially fourth best player on that Duke team. He was good, but he wasn't anywhere close to being the best player on that team.
    That’s not what he said. He’s referring only to the final four.

  2. #2177
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    273

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mgadfly View Post
    There are a few guys that come to mind when I think of freshmen point guards. Kenny Anderson, Jason Kidd, Derrick Rose, Bobby Hurley, Steph Curry, Iverson, Chris Jackson ... Some of them played in national championship games, others the final four ... but some didn't have around them what Suggs will have surrounding him (Steph Curry was excellent as a freshman point guard, but Davidson didn't have to offer what GU does in the rest of that lineup). If Suggs equals Kenny Anderson's freshman year or even TJ Ford's, we are probably in the Final Four hoping the ball bounces our way.

    I don't see why the #1 or #2 PG in his class couldn't produce at that level, but I doubt it will be needed in this case as he will be surrounded by veteran players elsewhere.
    Only Bobby Hurley, Kenny Anderson, and Derrick Rose made the final 4 from that list. Only Derrick Rose was the runaway best player on his team from that list.

  3. #2178
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Opportunity, WA
    Posts
    1,941

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOtherGreatOne View Post
    How many of those big schools in the middle of nowhere have won an ncaa basketball title in the last 25 years ? A small school located in the middle of nowhere west of the Mississippi will not be allowed to win the ncaa basketball championship, I will believe it only when I see it. Those schools from the big confrences will sell more merchandise and will put more people in the stands, thus they will make more money. The ncaa is about making money, not who the best team is. If the Zags were located east of the Mississippi they would have more media behind them and would stand a better chance of being allowed to win a championship. That what I said allowed. Then they were bailed out against us. All this all occured after they were caught in the biggest academic in the history of college sports. The popularity of teams by the media wins more championships than actual tallent, or should I say politics. I will keep saying this until I am proven wrong. Some of you can go on believing that the ncaa treats all schools equal if you want but it just isn't that way.
    I don't know if this list is exhaustive, but with a little effort I found:

    Storrs, Connecticut - Population: 15,344
    Charlottesville, Virginia - Population: 48,117
    Lawrence, Kansas - Population: 97,286
    Gainesville, Florida - Population: 133,857
    Syracuse, NY - Population: 142,749

    Spokane, WA - Population: 219,190

    I do get your point that the NCAA doesn't treat all its members equally. And some members of the media ignore Gonzaga. Others really like them. I guess I'm just not seeing the way anything is lined up against Gonzaga in any particular way that would prevent them from winning a championship.
    Agent provocateur

  4. #2179
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    17,813

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    Only Bobby Hurley, Kenny Anderson, and Derrick Rose made the final 4 from that list. Only Derrick Rose was the runaway best player on his team from that list.
    Kenny A could have played in the NBA as a high school freshman. Trust me on that.

  5. #2180
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    273

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cggonzaga View Post
    That’s not what he said. He’s referring only to the final four.
    And my original comment was the best player on a NCAA championship team.

  6. #2181
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Spokane, Wa.
    Posts
    814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    I honestly can't remember an NCAA championship team where the team's best player was a freshman point guard. It hasn't happened. The closest I can remember was Derrick Rose at Memphis. While Suggs is a top 10-15 prospect, he is not a generational talent and he won't be a lottery pick. He will most likely be a good guard for Gonzaga, with more talented plays than previous Gonzaga guards because of his unique skills and athleticism, but along with plenty of boneheaded turnovers and ill-advised shots because he will be a freshman guard. My question is how will he and his dad react when he has to sit on the bench in a second half because his grasp of the offense isn't quite what Few wants from his head point guard and he rides with Ayayi instead? How will Few, a fairly rigid coach, work on rearranging the offense in favor of a penetrating guard that needs plenty of spacing in stead of the staple pick and roll into post ups? Suggs will be good, but I can guarantee he won't be as good as NWG was that final four season. NWG was a fourth year college player who had already had tremendous success at UW as an individual player. I would expect Suggs to have a season much more akin to NWG's sophomore year at UW. He will be good, but the strength of next year's team will be the talented returning players. I would be bet more money on Ayayi being our best guard next year than Suggs. Calling yourself a superstar does open you up to criticism. That criticism is justified.
    - respect your opinion, but i do take issue with a few of points.
    - most rating services have suggs as a top 5 or top 10 recruit and everyone i have seen has him as the #2 point guard in the country.
    - second, regarding your guarantee that suggs will not be as good a nwg. you are probably going to be right on that, i just would say be careful with guarantees, who among us could have guaranteed ravet would drop out, that woolridge would be so good?
    - i read a scouting report yesterday that said one of suggs' strengths is his basketball IQ, he easily understands the offensive strategies of his coaches ask of him. yes he and his dad are head strong, but i really doubt suggs is going to be riding the bench.
    - suggs spoke of nwg in an interview, loves his game, wants to be like nwg, his number one take away from nwg is playing each game within yourself, not trying to do more than your talent or the play will allow. i do not believe such an insightful motivated player is going to be a turnover machine. like any player freshman or senior he will make his share of mistakes. but it won't be habitual in my opinion.

  7. #2182
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    And my original comment was the best player on a NCAA championship team.
    He was the best player on an NCAA Championship team in the Final Four. He had 23 points in that final game and was unstoppable.

  8. #2183
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Edgewood, WA
    Posts
    1,498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladyzag12 View Post
    Only Bobby Hurley, Kenny Anderson, and Derrick Rose made the final 4 from that list. Only Derrick Rose was the runaway best player on his team from that list.
    My point was that there have been a lot of really good freshmen point guards. Those surrounded by a very high level of talent have been pretty successful. Those surrounded by Davidson level talent were successful, but not nearly as much their freshmen year. Do we have Davidson talent coming back next season or Duke talent?

    And Dennis Scott was really good on that team, but I don't think Suggs' comment could be taken to mean he'll score 40 per game and guys like Petrosev will be an after thought.

    And finally, all of this about a quote in an interview is a little insane since there are actual games where he played with similar talent that you could have (maybe still can?) view. He was on a loaded under 19 USA FIBA squad. It was very clear (A) he is one of the most talented players his age in the world, but (B) he knows how to play within his talent/skill level and make great players around him better.

    Why we are worried about adding someone incredibly talented with those assets (because of a single confident statement) is beyond me.

  9. #2184
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    145

    Default

    Some of us might not agree with the comment that Suggs made but he is a young kid and I don't understand the ridicule and trying to downsize him as a player. He is one of us now...he is a Zag and our highest rated recruit yet and he will be a joy to watch play next year. I for one love his confidence and hope he backs it up with leading us to a title.

    One thing I do know is that Suggs is a winner...I'm a Gonzaga grad and also work in athletics in Minnesota and he is one of the most special athletes that we have had come out of our state.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #2185
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    1,373

    Default

    Trying to look at trends for success in CBB (what types of teams win many games in March) is hard if you are only looking at champ teams, simply because the tiny sample size. Obviously a championship is the goal, but you are limited to small data sets. Teams aren't making the elite 8 or final 4 by accident either (maybe except for Loyola Chicago in 2018).

    It's interesting to look at what types of teams make deep runs. I think the data clearly support a correlation between experience, especially at the guard spot, and deep tournament runs. Not a lot of correlation between teams with the best 4 or 5 individual players and making the final 4 or title game. And as others are pointing out, not many freshmen PG or superstar freshmen in general in the FF. Lots of elite CBB teams are full of fringe NBA guys who are returners, or experienced 2nd and 3rd year guys who may be solid 2nd round draft picks.

    Top 10 players by year are listed as Naismith semifinalists (before the tournament plays out) and very few of them are ever freshmen. There's probably some bias for choosing good players on great teams (Petrusev over Anthony Edwards).
    I went through the last 5 years, so 50 players. Of those 50 best players, 9 were freshmen, and 0 of their teams made the final four. The best freshmen this year (Wiseman, Anthony, Edwards, AZ trio, UW duo) weren't looking promising for final 4 either.


    2020 - Vernon Carey Duke (3 seed?) - We'll never know if they would have made a FF, but not many analysts predicted it.

    2019 - Barrett & Williamson - Duke - 0 Final Fours

    2018 - Ayton, Bagley III Trae Young - 0 Final Fours

    2017 - Lonzo Ball & Josh Jackson - 0 Final Fours

    2016 - Ben Simmons LSU - 0 Final Fours

  11. #2186
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    Posts
    1,235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Radbooks View Post
    This thread is one of the saddest I've ever seen - and that's saying a lot. I just don't understand how people can attack kids, especially ones that haven't even stepped on the court yet. SMH
    I agree completely. The only thing that elevates it from being the very saddest is the fact that it has now been hijacked to a totally unrelated and inane topic.
    SLOZag
    "Kids come here to better their own lives, not ours. If you take a player’s failures as a personal affront…. check yourself." - Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy

  12. #2187
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    273

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GonzaGAW View Post
    - respect your opinion, but i do take issue with a few of points.
    - most rating services have suggs as a top 5 or top 10 recruit and everyone i have seen has him as the #2 point guard in the country.
    - second, regarding your guarantee that suggs will not be as good a nwg. you are probably going to be right on that, i just would say be careful with guarantees, who among us could have guaranteed ravet would drop out, that woolridge would be so good?
    - i read a scouting report yesterday that said one of suggs' strengths is his basketball IQ, he easily understands the offensive strategies of his coaches ask of him. yes he and his dad are head strong, but i really doubt suggs is going to be riding the bench.
    - suggs spoke of nwg in an interview, loves his game, wants to be like nwg, his number one take away from nwg is playing each game within yourself, not trying to do more than your talent or the play will allow. i do not believe such an insightful motivated player is going to be a turnover machine. like any player freshman or senior he will make his share of mistakes. but it won't be habitual in my opinion.
    I meant he might get benched for 10 minutes, similar to Petrusev this year, not games or halves at a time. I also do not think he will be a turnover machine compared to other freshman guards. As a category, high usage freshman guards tend to commit more turnovers than more experienced players. NWG was a very similar prospect to Suggs coming out of high school in terms of accolades. He was a first team high school All American and a burger boy. He was the best or second best player on the best high school basketball team in the country. And he was amazing for UW as a freshman. I just don't want people to set Suggs up for failure in terms of expectations by comparing him to a second-team AA who was playing his fourth year of college basketball. Suggs has a good basketball IQ, but I would not put it as off the charts. He ran the traditional pick and roll at both the AAU level and in high school. He was able to make the right reads. He doesn't have Cade Cunningham IQ. What makes Suggs special is his quickness and relative strength. He is a competitive defender, a plus rebounder, has a decent handle, but also has the quickness to get in the lane and the strength to finish through contact. His jump shot really came on during his high school season, where it became a positive vs a negative during his UA summer seasons. We have not had a basketball athlete like this at point guard that also has a good basketball IQ and a good skill set. Imagine Woolridge but bigger, stronger, and with more skill in terms of decision making, handle, and shooting. That is a special player.

  13. #2188
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    17,813

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SLOZag View Post
    I agree completely. The only thing that elevates it from being the very saddest is the fact that it has now been hijacked to a totally unrelated and inane topic.
    The hand wringing is even sadder. He’s a terrific talent, the debate here is how terrific. Chill, man.

  14. #2189
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    273

    Default

    To get back on topic, my major takeaways from an otherwise general puff piece is one, going abroad is no longer an option and he will be coming to GU and two, we get some insight into the pitch the staff gave to him (come be a piece of a final four contender with a guaranteed starting role and we will improve your draft stock) and also how former players get involved in recruiting.

  15. #2190
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Edgewood, WA
    Posts
    1,498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SLOZag View Post
    I agree completely. The only thing that elevates it from being the very saddest is the fact that it has now been hijacked to a totally unrelated and inane topic.
    This is actually one of the very few threads that hasn't been hijacked. The conversation seems to be about (1) whether Suggs (the topic of this thread) can take a team to the Final Four or Championship game based on historical comparisons or (2) whether Suggs' comments a good sign of confidence or a bad sign of arrogance.

    While I agree the thread is sad, at least in the past few pages, it has been surprisingly on topic.

  16. #2191
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Spokane Valley
    Posts
    1,039

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Hurls came the closest..........and Suggs is no Hurley, and certainly no D Rose.

    As a freshman in the 1989-90 season, Hurley started all thirty-eight games and collected 288 assists, the most in school history. He showed unusual poise in leading Duke to the Final Four.
    You sound like Lloyd Bentsen.

  17. #2192
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Opportunity, WA
    Posts
    1,941

    Default

    Gonzaga is tied with Baylor as the odds-on favorite to win it all next year according to https://www.vegasinsider.com/college.../odds/futures/, but even so, the odds are still only 8:1.
    Agent provocateur

  18. #2193
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GuZag2012 View Post
    Some of us might not agree with the comment that Suggs made but he is a young kid and I don't understand the ridicule and trying to downsize him as a player. He is one of us now...he is a Zag and our highest rated recruit yet and he will be a joy to watch play next year. I for one love his confidence and hope he backs it up with leading us to a title.

    One thing I do know is that Suggs is a winner...I'm a Gonzaga grad and also work in athletics in Minnesota and he is one of the most special athletes that we have had come out of our state.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Great post.

    Let’s support our Zags! Let’s embrace having superior talent choose to play for coach Few.

    We do a great job of embracing 1 year grad transfers into the Zag Family. Let’s do the same for our one and dones.

  19. #2194
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    17,813

  20. #2195
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    cave-in-rock,il
    Posts
    396

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sonuvazag View Post
    I don't know if this list is exhaustive, but with a little effort I found:

    Storrs, Connecticut - Population: 15,344
    Charlottesville, Virginia - Population: 48,117
    Lawrence, Kansas - Population: 97,286
    Gainesville, Florida - Population: 133,857
    Syracuse, NY - Population: 142,749

    Spokane, WA - Population: 219,190

    I do get your point that the NCAA doesn't treat all its members equally. And some members of the media ignore Gonzaga. Others really like them. I guess I'm just not seeing the way anything is lined up against Gonzaga in any particular way that would prevent them from winning a championship.
    Not against only Gonzaga, but any small school from a small confrence, especially if they are from the west.

  21. #2196
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,050

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sonuvazag View Post
    Gonzaga is tied with Baylor as the odds-on favorite to win it all next year according to https://www.vegasinsider.com/college.../odds/futures/, but even so, the odds are still only 8:1.
    That’s great! I figured we’d be 6-1. I’m all over 8-1!

  22. #2197
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    766

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cggonzaga View Post
    That’s great! I figured we’d be 6-1. I’m all over 8-1!
    You know 6-1 is better than 8-1 for the Zags, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    Go Zags!!!

  23. #2198
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Opportunity, WA
    Posts
    1,941

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zagdontzig View Post
    You know 6-1 is better than 8-1 for the Zags, right?
    He means as a bettor. And, yeah, I agree 8:1 would be decent odds for a bettor. My point has been that even though an 11% share of the total odds is good for any one team, we're still looking at nearly 9 out of 10 hypothetical times where the Zags don't win. I would say, in general, and thanks to enormous expectations surrounding Jalen Suggs, most of Zags nation is expectant of a championship more along the lines of "more likely than not."
    Agent provocateur

  24. #2199
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,210

  25. #2200
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    17,813

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scrooner View Post
    See Caveat above......

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •