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Thread: Gonzaga to allow Shapiro Speech

  1. #1
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    Default Gonzaga to allow Shapiro Speech

    Gonzaga University needs to immediately terminate the Vice President of Student Development for issuing the absolute worst public statement in the history of the University.

    In denying the request by the Gonzaga College Republicans invitation to have a Conservative Jewish speaker Ben Shapiro speak to them she issues the most anti-semitic statement I have ever seen out of any university. One of the reasons for denying the Jewish speaker is that “Gonzaga University is committed to the human dignity of every individual,” VP of Student Devlopment Judith Biggs Garbuio stated. “This is the core of our mission based on the teachings of Christ Jesus, and the foundations of the Society of Jesus. We stand in solidarity with vulnerable members of our community who may be targeted for discrimination, ridicule, or harassment by others.”

    It absolutely disgusting that the University feels its better to shut down the free flow of speech on campus than to allow students to listen to those with opposing view points. She didn't have any problem last year when she approved Angela Davis to speak on campus. The same Angela Davis who spouts anti-semitic rhetoric including taking positions that Jews should be exterminated and espouses the same anti-Jewish rhetoric that Aryan Nation members throw out but we have a conservative Jewish speaker isn't welcome because quite frankly her statement implies its because he is Jewish not Catholic.

    There have been a lot of Jewish students at Gonzaga and this public statement the University put out is glaring anti-semitic. There are a lot of donors who donate a lot of money to Gonzaga each year, like myself, who will now second guess whether we should send in a check to the University because of this woman's statement. I don't know if we hired this woman once the Hayden Lake Aryan Nations compound was shut down or what but halting discussion on a college campus does not lead to the pursuit of a quality education nor does disallowing Jewish speakers to speak on campus because their religion isn't based on the teachings of Christ Jeusus and the foundations of the Society of Jesus.

    Thayne needs to fix this and fix it fast. The first thing he should do is fire this nitwit and the second thing is personally call this Jewish speaker and invite him to share his ideas (whether you like them or hate them) so that people can expand their intellectual thinking processes instead of keeping alternative ideologies isolated. Students are smart enough to think for themselves and Gonzaga students in particular are smart otherwise they wouldn't have gotten into the University. The students don't need some anti-semitic woman cutting off speach because it comes from someone who happens to be Jewish.


    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...s-say-univers/

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    Quote Originally Posted by basketballzag View Post
    Gonzaga University needs to immediately terminate the Vice President of Student Development for issuing the absolute worst public statement in the history of the University.

    In denying the request by the Gonzaga College Republicans invitation to have a Conservative Jewish speaker Ben Shapiro speak to them she issues the most anti-semitic statement I have ever seen out of any university. One of the reasons for denying the Jewish speaker is that “Gonzaga University is committed to the human dignity of every individual,” VP of Student Devlopment Judith Biggs Garbuio stated. “This is the core of our mission based on the teachings of Christ Jesus, and the foundations of the Society of Jesus. We stand in solidarity with vulnerable members of our community who may be targeted for discrimination, ridicule, or harassment by others.”

    It absolutely disgusting that the University feels its better to shut down the free flow of speech on campus than to allow students to listen to those with opposing view points. She didn't have any problem last year when she approved Angela Davis to speak on campus. The same Angela Davis who spouts anti-semitic rhetoric including taking positions that Jews should be exterminated and espouses the same anti-Jewish rhetoric that Aryan Nation members throw out but we have a conservative Jewish speaker isn't welcome because quite frankly her statement implies its because he is Jewish not Catholic.

    There have been a lot of Jewish students at Gonzaga and this public statement the University put out is glaring anti-semitic. There are a lot of donors who donate a lot of money to Gonzaga each year, like myself, who will now second guess whether we should send in a check to the University because of this woman's statement. I don't know if we hired this woman once the Hayden Lake Aryan Nations compound was shut down or what but halting discussion on a college campus does not lead to the pursuit of a quality education nor does disallowing Jewish speakers to speak on campus because their religion isn't based on the teachings of Christ Jeusus and the foundations of the Society of Jesus.

    Thayne needs to fix this and fix it fast. The first thing he should do is fire this nitwit and the second thing is personally call this Jewish speaker and invite him to share his ideas (whether you like them or hate them) so that people can expand their intellectual thinking processes instead of keeping alternative ideologies isolated. Students are smart enough to think for themselves and Gonzaga students in particular are smart otherwise they wouldn't have gotten into the University. The students don't need some anti-semitic woman cutting off speach because it comes from someone who happens to be Jewish.


    http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...s-say-univers/
    Why is Shapiro's Jewishness important and so key to your argument as to why GU should allow him to speak on campus?

    He's a glib sophist who "argues" in bad faith and has argued explicitly for ethnic cleaning of Arabs.

    As for Angela Davis - I can't speak for her corpus, but at a high level it seems that theres a conflation of her criticism of the state actions of Israel with hatred of Jewish people. That's a stunning logical leap, but a common one for certain types of ideologues.

    It's less that he's Jewish, and more that he's an intellectual featherweight, espouses ethnic cleansing programs, and uses rhetorical figures that dehumanizes Arabs, women, and African-Americans.
    History has its eyes on you.

    Sage of the GU Message Board

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    Of course he should be allowed to speak....he is one of the most intelligent and articulate leaders of the Republican Party....

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    I would be fine if the stated reasoning was limited to student safety. But the university statement seemed to imply that they were more worried about the problematic speech of the counter protestors. In other words, they gave the heckler's veto power.

    So instead of airing both sides out in the open, they are choosing to push the growing divide further into the dark, which inevitably leads to division and radicalization as both sides retreat to the safe harbor of their respective factions.

    This is a mistake.

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    This would not have happened under Robert Spitzer's presidency.

    Where is the current President?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Once and Future Zag View Post
    Why is Shapiro's Jewishness important and so key to your argument as to why GU should allow him to speak on campus?

    He's a glib sophist who "argues" in bad faith and has argued explicitly for ethnic cleaning of Arabs.

    As for Angela Davis - I can't speak for her corpus, but at a high level it seems that theres a conflation of her criticism of the state actions of Israel with hatred of Jewish people. That's a stunning logical leap, but a common one for certain types of ideologues.

    It's less that he's Jewish, and more that he's an intellectual featherweight, espouses ethnic cleansing programs, and uses rhetorical figures that dehumanizes Arabs, women, and African-Americans.
    I agree with you OAFZ, but for a different reason. Shapiro is a conservative pundit, so naturally he's an "intellectual featherweight" as you describe him. Whatever...it's a bad move on the part of GU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alum08 View Post
    I would be fine if the stated reasoning was limited to student safety. But the university statement seemed to imply that they were more worried about the problematic speech of the counter protestors. In other words, they gave the heckler's veto power.

    So instead of airing both sides out in the open, they are choosing to push the growing divide further into the dark, which inevitably leads to division and radicalization as both sides retreat to the safe harbor of their respective factions.

    This is a mistake.
    It's not a mistake - he's a glib, unprincipled provocateur. There's no academic value in having him speak, while he mooches off the money and the good name of GU and it's students.

    I'd think being an advocate for ethnic cleansing alone rules out a welcome mat being laid out for him by the Jesuits.

    It does in my house - maybe others are different.

    I mean - you can counterbalance him with someone sober and intelligent, who is more interested in discussion on rational terms - a Samuel Goldman, a Tom Nichols, a Kelly Vlahos, a Stephen F. Hayes, etc but aside from that I'm not sure what you mean by 'both sides"

    We don't take flat earthers as seriously as we do NASA when it comes to the sciences... right?

    I think GU is in the right here, not because he's Jewish, not because he's "conservative" - but because he's an ephemeral culture war grifter. Sound and fury, signifying nothing.
    History has its eyes on you.

    Sage of the GU Message Board

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    I agree with you OAFZ, but for a different reason. Shapiro is a conservative pundit, so naturally he's an "intellectual featherweight" as you describe him. Whatever...it's a bad move on the part of GU.
    Might I have originally suggested to the young Republicans at GU that there would have been far less inflammatory guests with more intellectual merit than Shapiro. Thomas Sowell, for instance.

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    They want to hear Ben......let them....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alum08 View Post
    Might I have originally suggested to the young Republicans at GU that there would have been far less inflammatory guests with more intellectual merit than Shapiro. Thomas Sowell, for instance.
    Great idea...I also recommend Dr. Walter Williams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Once and Future Zag View Post
    It's not a mistake - he's a glib, unprincipled provocateur. There's no academic value in having him speak, while he mooches off the money and the good name of GU and it's students.

    I'd think being an advocate for ethnic cleansing alone rules out a welcome mat being laid out for him by the Jesuits.

    It does in my house - maybe others are different.

    I mean - you can counterbalance him with someone sober and intelligent, who is more interested in discussion on rational terms - a Samuel Goldman, a Tom Nichols, a Kelly Vlahos, a Stephen F. Hayes, etc but aside from that I'm not sure what you mean by 'both sides"

    We don't take flat earthers as seriously as we do NASA when it comes to the sciences... right?

    I think GU is in the right here, not because he's Jewish, not because he's "conservative" - but because he's an ephemeral culture war grifter. Sound and fury, signifying nothing.
    GU is probably right about refusing Shapiro on the basis of student safety and that he is an agent provocateur. But the line of reasoning they went with in their statement about the risk of counter protestors was way, way off the mark. It reeks of modern "safe-space" liberalism. It will do more harm than good for the university and further alienates a shrinking minority on college campuses.

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    Just my opinion, but there is far greater diversity of thought on these forums than is on display at GU today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Once and Future Zag View Post
    It's not a mistake - he's a glib, unprincipled provocateur. There's no academic value in having him speak, while he mooches off the money and the good name of GU and it's students.

    I'd think being an advocate for ethnic cleansing alone rules out a welcome mat being laid out for him by the Jesuits.

    It does in my house - maybe others are different.

    I mean - you can counterbalance him with someone sober and intelligent, who is more interested in discussion on rational terms - a Samuel Goldman, a Tom Nichols, a Kelly Vlahos, a Stephen F. Hayes, etc but aside from that I'm not sure what you mean by 'both sides"

    We don't take flat earthers as seriously as we do NASA when it comes to the sciences... right?

    I think GU is in the right here, not because he's Jewish, not because he's "conservative" - but because he's an ephemeral culture war grifter. Sound and fury, signifying nothing.
    Tried to find where Shapiro advocated ethnic cleansing. Can you point me to that?

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    Culture war Grifter..... Hilarious... You are describing the humanities at GU.

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    Of course Ben should speak...as should Farrakhan....David Duke.....Khalid Mashal…..Lapierre....this is a University for crying out loud...the students should be able to hear uncomfortable ideas.....if there are protests ..fine....protesting is as American as the National Anthem …… even Bill Walton should be allowed to speak.....well...maybe not.....

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    Great thread.
    This post is for March Madness seeding purposes only.

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    I'm impressed and heartened to see this thread maintain and civil and information-seeking tone, even amidst respectful disagreement.

    I think Shapiro is the sort of persona where most groups see in him what they are hoping or wanting to see.

    As far as his most provocative or insensitive statements (which I think are mostly from his teenage years for college days) he has apologized publicly for many (all?) of them. He revels in disagreement and debate but I don't think that he's by nature a disagreeable or disrespectful person.

    I think that the University should have allowed the college republicans to have him speak to their club. I don't see how his views on most major issues are particularly different from (for example) most of the folks running for the republican presidential nominations in the pre-Trump era.

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    So: Will the Gonzaga University "brand" be enhanced or tarnished if he appears on campus ? Neutral ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoZag View Post
    So: Will the Gonzaga University "brand" be enhanced or tarnished if he appears on campus ? Neutral ?
    Shapiro says some stuff that needs to be said, other times he is a bit of a turd. But I'd hate to see the university go down this path. From what I've seen, people were up on arms over tutu and it's only got worse from there. This stifling of free speech isn't consistent with a Jesuit education, imo. I saw shades of it while I was there and this makes me think it's only going to get worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoZag View Post
    So: Will the Gonzaga University "brand" be enhanced or tarnished if he appears on campus ? Neutral ?
    Your instincts are correct. Shapiro's appearance probably carried an unacceptable level of financial risk, which is written between the lines in the university's statement.

    With the influx of federal loan money, the value of future students (presumably seeking a safe and liberal environment) probably far outweighs any negative impact this decision could have on alumni donations. But still, I personally know of four alumni donors that have pledged to stop donating until this decision is resolved. With so few bastions of free speech left in this country, it's hard to blame them for being selective about which institutions deserve their money.

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    Tarnished if he is not allowed to speak....

    I recall that some Bishop or whatever tried to prevent the newly elected President, Barack Obama, from speaking at Notre Dame and the school told him to pound sand and welcomed the President to the campus.. thank god....

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    Default Makes no sense.

    This made me sad to see. Especially in light of the professor they hired this year that Missouri fired. Crosby would be sad.
    Last edited by RenoZag; 12-01-2018 at 05:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoZag View Post
    So: Will the Gonzaga University "brand" be enhanced or tarnished if he appears on campus ? Neutral ?
    If the Zags win the next four, it won’t matter.

    Seriously, this “controversy” is the kind that blows over in a few days. I don’t see the Gonzaga “brand” tarnished. In today’s world, Jesuit universities are viewed as Uber-liberal (rightly or wrongly).

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    Quote Originally Posted by LTownZag View Post
    I'm impressed and heartened to see this thread maintain and civil and information-seeking tone, even amidst respectful disagreement.

    I think Shapiro is the sort of persona where most groups see in him what they are hoping or wanting to see.

    As far as his most provocative or insensitive statements (which I think are mostly from his teenage years for college days) he has apologized publicly for many (all?) of them. He revels in disagreement and debate but I don't think that he's by nature a disagreeable or disrespectful person.

    I think that the University should have allowed the college republicans to have him speak to their club. I don't see how his views on most major issues are particularly different from (for example) most of the folks running for the republican presidential nominations in the pre-Trump era.
    During the halcyon era of the Online Crosby Center (OCC), the discourse got very heated at times. Funny though, we always came together during basketball season.

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    Haven't posted in years, but I've had three scotches. This makes total sense, but shouldn't be posted in this forum. Go zags.

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