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Thread: O.T. Bill Self has to be fired, does he not?

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    Default O.T. Bill Self has to be fired, does he not?

    Michael Schachter, an attorney for Adidas executive James Gatto, told the jury that Gatto approved a $20,000 payment to Fenny Falmagne, the guardian of current Kansas player Silvio De Sousa, only after Self and Kansas assistant Kurtis Townsend requested the payment through former Adidas consultant T.J. Gassnola.


    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...oach-bill-self

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    Quote Originally Posted by thespywhozaggedme View Post
    Michael Schachter, an attorney for Adidas executive James Gatto, told the jury that Gatto approved a $20,000 payment to Fenny Falmagne, the guardian of current Kansas player Silvio De Sousa, only after Self and Kansas assistant Kurtis Townsend requested the payment through former Adidas consultant T.J. Gassnola.


    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...oach-bill-self
    Spy, brudder, you are being way too logical. Coach Self will pin this on a flunkie -- "gol darn it, I didn't know and I am wrong and that will never, ever happen again" -- and move on Rocking the Chalk, or Chalking the Rock, whatever they do in sad flyover country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thespywhozaggedme View Post
    Michael Schachter, an attorney for Adidas executive James Gatto, told the jury that Gatto approved a $20,000 payment to Fenny Falmagne, the guardian of current Kansas player Silvio De Sousa, only after Self and Kansas assistant Kurtis Townsend requested the payment through former Adidas consultant T.J. Gassnola.


    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...oach-bill-self

    Wow... think it goes beyond firing... Should be lifetime ban. Won't happen because the NCAA looks after blue bloods.
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    Even if video exists Delorean defense of “entrapment” is a Fed killer
    Dissent, insight and contextual discussion makes a website 'sticky' and engaging - not just predictable, safe position fanboyism. Monoculture is uninteresting and lacks intellectual depth.

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    If it can be proved, he should be fired and given a lifetime ban. I don't expect the NCAA to do any thing of the sort. They have always been chickens**t to the big schools, the blue bloods and the North Carolina fiasco has made them even more so.

    The only thing that will make that change is money, or rather, the threat of losing money.

    ALL the none P5 schools need to band together and have a class action type suit against the NCAA foe failure to enforce the rules equitably, punishing the small schools and allowing the big ones to skate.

    Those same small schools, and even some 'clean' big ones could refuse to play Kansas and the other cheaters, forfeiting the games rather than play those schools. If that carried over into the March Madness even better...take the opening tip (to get the money for a game played) and walk off the floor. I do realize that that won't happen, but something of the expanse is what would get the TV networks attention and force the hand of the NCAA.

    Pie in the sky, I know, but something like that is what it will take. Hit the NCAA in the wallet.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    just keep repeating this

    The National Collegiate Athletic Association is a member-led organization
    Dissent, insight and contextual discussion makes a website 'sticky' and engaging - not just predictable, safe position fanboyism. Monoculture is uninteresting and lacks intellectual depth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    just keep repeating this
    Tell THEM that!
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Wow... think it goes beyond firing... Should be lifetime ban. Won't happen because the NCAA looks after blue bloods.
    They could also just find a way to pin it on the coach, and spare the blueblood school. Ban Self for life, and let Kansas walk free.

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    It is about MONEY!

    P-5 schools control the money via TV revenue.

    KU is a top tier P-5 basketball school, as is UL, UNC and AZ. IF and when the FBI investigation and trials are over, it will be interesting to see how many years it will take the NCAA to review the information, investigate these schools and by that time it will be out of sight-out of mind for most and nothing will happen to hinder KU's 13 or 14 or 15 season conference winning streak and dance appearances...

    If justice is what you seek, don't expect the NCAA to carry it out...ask UOP how they felt about their NCAA violations and the fact that UNC did have any...

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    There was an attorney on NBC Sports Bay Area yesterday who said this thing is so severe that Self could face jail time.

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    The following is an interesting point of view by a Kansas fan off of a Kansas fan board...

    "I do take comfort that nothing will come of this for KU, because neither Self nor KU will stand by and take the fall for an entire industry.

    I am 100% convinced UNC walked on the fake class thing because everyone knew if they got hammered, it could take down every single program in NCAA who did similar class and grade manipulation for athletes.

    Same thing here. Duke and UNC will deny forever, as they know or "hope" there is no direct evidence against them. KU will take a publicity hit, and maybe even a recruiting hit, but no major sanctions will come our way lest we spill the beans on every other program. Just wait until these Adidas guys start getting asked about kids they lost to Nike schools, and how Nike paid more for the kid. The can of worms is about to burst wide open, and everyone will want this to die, and the only way it stays alive and gets worse for everyone is to hammer Self and KU with sanctions."

    This type of attitude makes me sick, the ol everyone is doing it so it's okay BS.... sadly he's probably right.... such a dark day for collegiate athletics and NCAA basketball.... every coach that is involved should be sanctioned and banned for at least 5 years.... the old adage cheaters never prosper is disproven once more.... makes me proud to be a Zags fan...

    Just my opinion...

    Go!! Zags!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigblahla View Post
    The following is an interesting point of view by a Kansas fan off of a Kansas fan board...

    "I do take comfort that nothing will come of this for KU, because neither Self nor KU will stand by and take the fall for an entire industry.

    I am 100% convinced UNC walked on the fake class thing because everyone knew if they got hammered, it could take down every single program in NCAA who did similar class and grade manipulation for athletes.

    Same thing here. Duke and UNC will deny forever, as they know or "hope" there is no direct evidence against them. KU will take a publicity hit, and maybe even a recruiting hit, but no major sanctions will come our way lest we spill the beans on every other program. Just wait until these Adidas guys start getting asked about kids they lost to Nike schools, and how Nike paid more for the kid. The can of worms is about to burst wide open, and everyone will want this to die, and the only way it stays alive and gets worse for everyone is to hammer Self and KU with sanctions."

    This type of attitude makes me sick, the ol everyone is doing it so it's okay BS.... sadly he's probably right.... such a dark day for collegiate athletics and NCAA basketball.... every coach that is involved should be sanctioned and banned for at least 5 years.... the old adage cheaters never prosper is disproven once more.... makes me proud to be a Zags fan...

    Just my opinion...

    Go!! Zags!!

    The Jayhawk fan is probably right...sadly.
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    Remember a Duke player Corey Maggette (CM)? It was found out after he left Duke and was playing in the NBA that CM was paid money, while he was playing AAU ball. Many people (especially Duke haters) were up in arms calling for Duke to be penalized by the NCAA for this obvious violation. Well, Duke is a school full of smart kids and has an excellent law firm to represent them in such matters. Duke ran it's own investigation and determined no one new and they got ahead of the NCAA and shared all their information with them; subsequently, the NCAA was "impressed" and decided that no one in the Duke administration was aware of CM getting paid while playing AAU basketball.

    Since that was a successful strategy by Duke, it would appear that KU could also attempt to use the same strategy, running it's own investigation before the NCAA begins one and providing them with "ALL" their findings! This has worked before too with UL, when they had the stripper/hooker issue...UL denied their team admittance to the NCAA tournament and the NCAA said that was enough of a penalty and the school was not placed on probation. UL's action was traumatic to their players, especially the seniors as they would not be able to play the following year and prevented a mass scale exodus of scholarship players leaving for greener pastures. UL was able to bite the bullet for the one year and then continue marching on as if nothing happened.

    KU could well do the exact same thing and could alleviate probation by just forfeiting the games in which De Sousa played, fining or firing Self and just keep marching on. Forfeiting games is meaningless because KU has already been paid for those games and since the NCAA doesn't or won't fine these "cheating" schools money, then it doesn't matter what happens to the players or even the coach. The bottom line is to avoid probation at any cost as that will COST KU money and IMO that is all that matters.

    UL didn't care about it's seniors or other players when chose to impose the team's restriction from the NCAA Tournament, they only cared about keeping their players from transferring and the money they would earn next year from their participation in the Dance...

    It will be interesting to see how all this unfolds but I believe that KU and the other schools are penalized much the same as Duke was regarding CM and UNC with it's education fiasco...

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    business as usual at espn, the below from yesterday. Kansas ranked #1, didn't see any mention of cheating
    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...power-rankings

    and the requisite denials from K and Williamson
    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-investigation

    of course, on Williamson, there's this
    Williamson's recruitment became fodder in the college basketball corruption trial this week when FBI tapes indicated his stepfather had asked for money and a job from Kansas. A transcript of the calls was read to the courtroom during the trial Tuesday, but the tapes were not admitted as evidence.
    But he's clean, K said so.

    whatever, corruption pays, and it's revered to get away with it by WAY too many. That's what matters...cheat, lie, whatever, but get away with it. That means you're successful.

    It's tough raising kids in this environment. Few and the Zags help, providing an example of another way to do it that is also successful, without the cheating and lying.

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    Once again...the ONLY way to get the NCAA to respond is for all the non blue blood schools to demand it. That can come as a letter signed by the majority of those non blue blood schools, a lawsuit against the NCAA by the member schools that are not being treated equitably, or a boycott of games against those blue bloods.

    If Kansas/North Carolina etc reach the end of the season with a 32-0 record and 32 wins by forfeit, it would be a quandary of monumental proportions. How could they possibly be seeded with no data?

    One team having the fortitude to boycott one of those games might start a snowball that even the NCAA could not stand against.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    I wonder what "job" Duke got his stepdad. Shouldn't be too hard to follow that trail.

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    The more heat the trial puts on the blue bloods, Damon Stoudamire better watch out, NCAA will have him and other small school coaches in their sights.


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    Way back when a Duke player's mom had a job arranged for her allegedly. I believe it was Chris Duhon. Yeah, the Maggette situation was a joke. Not even a hand slap. Selective enforcement by the NCAA.

    The really unfortunate thing for Louisville players that year they self imposed a post season ban is that they had 2 fairly high profile grad transfers that joined the team. They obviously would've gone elsewhere and had many choices. I think GU was among the finalists for one of them.

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    Since that was a successful strategy by Duke, it would appear that KU could also attempt to use the same strategy, running it's own investigation before the NCAA begins one and providing them with "ALL" their findings! This has worked before too with UL, when they had the stripper/hooker issue...UL denied their team admittance to the NCAA tournament and the NCAA said that was enough of a penalty and the school was not placed on probation.
    Happened at Syracuse a few years ago. "They" put themselves on immediate tournament probation during the current season so that they could preserve their much celebrated recruiting class who would've bolted immediately if the following year's team had been kept out of the tournament by the NCAA. In the mean time, a number of seniors who had contributed greatly to the Orange during their careers were thrown under the bus by Boeheim. I lost what little respect I had for Boeheim after that incident. And the NCAA were jerks for allowing Boeheim to do it.

    Violators should have ZERO say in setting their own punishments.

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