Kansas & N.C. State tied into FBI’s college basketball probe, new indictments issued

[willandi]

I am no lawyer, but I have yet to see any crimes. NCAA violations are not necessarily crimes.

Wire Fraud 18 USC 1343

Travel act conspiracy and actual 18 USC 1952

Honest Service Fraud 18 USC 1346

Bribery and solicitation of bribery 18 USc 201

False statements to cover scheme 18 USC 201

I suspect that the FBI would not be investigating if they didn't feel that there was evidence of crime. They would not just do the dirty work that the NCAA is afraid to tackle.

[bartruff1]

I suspect FBI thought there was a crime down at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge .....we will see if there are any convictions...

[kitzbuel]

Most countries call it “business”....America is the exception

Much more true than most of us Americans know.

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

[vandalzag]

I suspect FBI thought there was a crime down at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge .....we will see if there are any convictions...

No conviction always equals no crime



Convictions on the runners are one thing. Unless there is a huge release of information the NCAA will will be safe to sit back and do nothing. I fear that the only way you see a big name school take action is if there is video of a the coach handing money to a recruit. Runners and middleman take the fall while the kingpins continue on.

[bartruff1]

No conviction means there was no conviction.....that is all it means...it does not mean there was no crime, nor does it mean those charged were innocent....at least to a non lawyer like me...

The NCAA's resources are insignificant, compared to those of the Justice Department and the FBI.....I am under the impression that charging a person can lead to their cooperation in charging those further up ...at least that is what the talking heads on TV say...

[DZ]

Proving my naivety yet again, I am shocked that Kansas is involved.

"Victim," though?

That takes some real brass to use that word in your press release.

[sittingon50]

"Victim,"

Tremendously poor choice of word(s), IMO.

Not sure if anyone in Media Relations in Lawrence has been watching the news lately. We have seen some victims; KU BB, you ain't one of 'em.

[TexasZagFan]

Tremendously poor choice of word(s), IMO.

Not sure if anyone in Media Relations in Lawrence has been watching the news lately. We have seen some victims; KU BB, you ain't one of 'em.

Everyone's a victim today, just take a gander at the OKC Thunder, who suspended their play by play announcer for a game because of his "Westbrook's playing out of his cotton pickin' mind".

Now I have two reasons to root against OKC, the first being their trade of Domas to the Pacers.

I'd like to smuggle a copy of Blazing Saddles into their locker room, just to see heads explode.

[willandi]

Everyone's a victim today, just take a gander at the OKC Thunder, who suspended their play by play announcer for a game because of his "Westbrook's playing out of his cotton pickin' mind".

Now I have two reasons to root against OKC, the first being their trade of Domas to the Pacers.

I'd like to smuggle a copy of Blazing Saddles into their locker room, just to see heads explode.

My first reason to root against them is their being allowed, by Stern. to be stolen from Seattle. Domas made me ALMOST want to consider following him while there, but, for me, I can now follow the Pacers free of the anger that OKC instills.

[MDABE80]

How about filing fraudulent tax returns? If money changed hands, the income should have been reported by the recipients. Remember, that's what landed Al Capone in Alcatraz.

Mail fraud Tex.

[SLOZag]

Poor Kansas

Proving my naivety yet again, I am shocked that Kansas is involved.

"Victim," though?

That takes some real brass to use that word in your press release.

Any more brass than this?

""The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s like incredible," Trump said."
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ny_voters.html The President was talking about voting in an election, but it could have just as easily been a reference to the votes of members of a jury pool in any of the many courtroom trials he has experienced (or any he may encounter in the future).

Anytime you hear someone claim that a failure to convict (be it in the FBI's NCAA investigation, the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, or whatever) somehow establishes innocence, take a moment to consider our President's words. He is probably right. Juries, after all, are comprised of people -- not perfect people, not always uniformly bright people, and sometimes of people unwilling to follow the law given to them by the judge (Wiki the term "jury nullification" if this last notion doesn't make sense to you). Bart said it best: "No conviction means there was no conviction.....that is all it means."

Some banks claim to be too big to fail. By donning the victim's cloak, Kansas hopes it is too loved to be convicted. Kansas hopes that when some of those fans become jurors, they will be so loyal that Kansas "won't lose any votes" for an acquittal. It is incredible, and it may not work. But it may. We will see.

[bdmiller7]

Proving my naivety yet again, I am shocked that Kansas is involved.

"Victim," though?

That takes some real brass to use that word in your press release.

I think that is the basis of the whole FBI investigation, that the universities are the "victims". Money is going from agents to players or assistant coaches without the universities knowledge, which if caught would cost the universities money due to NCAA penalties. Whether they actually are the victims or not is up for debate, but that's the grounds the FBI has to investigate on.

[DZ]

I think that is the basis of the whole FBI investigation, that the universities are the "victims". Money is going from agents to players or assistant coaches without the universities knowledge, which if caught would cost the universities money due to NCAA penalties. Whether they actually are the victims or not is up for debate, but that's the grounds the FBI has to investigate on.

That is a good explanation. Thank you, and it does make some sense in that specific context.

I guess it is a question of whether anyone would buy the fact that the universities don't know. I suppose it is a case by case basis.

I have trouble believing that a head coach doesn't know. But, let's say a head coach doesn't know, but he knows that seemingly "out of the blue" a player signs that hadn't really been a priority and hadn't really shown much interest. To me, the head coach has a fiduciary duty to the university to at least go to the player and say "Hey, what's up? Did anyone make you any promises or ...." that would be the minimal amount of investigation that I would expect of an employee of mine, if I were the president of the university.

That presumes that the president of the university prefers to remain clean and not have the school's name dragged through the ringer through all of this, and we have reason to believe that many presidents don't have that ideal. I am surprised that Kansas would be in that position, given how long Coach Self has been there, how much success, how little "help" he needs recruiting, and the near bottomless "downside" to getting caught.

Kansas has so much to lose and not a ton to gain by taking such risks. They already win their conference year in and year out, are almost always top 4 seeds, have such rich tradition, and are a decent (not elite) but good academic institution.

NC State playing in both Duke and UNC's shadow? I can see why people there would want to take greater risks (not that it makes it okay). All I am saying is there is a pressure there that makes me find it less surprising to see NC State on the list than Kansas.

I am almost always "pro-college athlete" and of the belief that the head coaches have too much power. But, if they ARe going to have that power, then I see them as having a special duty to know of and prevent these types of things from happening. IOW - it would be hard for me to see a situation where Bill Self is truly an innocent "victim" - don't know about Kansas as an institution.

BUT, I don't know as much about the entire investigation and such as others here and I appreciate your reply. It made a great deal of sense.

[DZ]

Any more brass than this?

""The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s like incredible," Trump said."
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ny_voters.html The President was talking about voting in an election, but it could have just as easily been a reference to the votes of members of a jury pool in any of the many courtroom trials he has experienced (or any he may encounter in the future).

Anytime you hear someone claim that a failure to convict (be it in the FBI's NCAA investigation, the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, or whatever) somehow establishes innocence, take a moment to consider our President's words. He is probably right. Juries, after all, are comprised of people -- not perfect people, not always uniformly bright people, and sometimes of people unwilling to follow the law given to them by the judge (Wiki the term "jury nullification" if this last notion doesn't make sense to you). Bart said it best: "No conviction means there was no conviction.....that is all it means."

Some banks claim to be too big to fail. By donning the victim's cloak, Kansas hopes it is too loved to be convicted. Kansas hopes that when some of those fans become jurors, they will be so loyal that Kansas "won't lose any votes" for an acquittal. It is incredible, and it may not work. But it may. We will see.

Preaching to the choir, is all I will say.

[Martin Centre Mad Man]

I suspect that the FBI would not be investigating if they didn't feel that there was evidence of crime. They would not just do the dirty work that the NCAA is afraid to tackle.

To be honest, I wonder why the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York doesn’t have better things for his office to do with their time and resources. It’s not like that office has any oversight of financial crimes on Wall Street, organized crime, international terrorism, government fraud, human trafficking, narcotics trafficking, hate crimes, discrimination cases...