Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 46 of 46

Thread: Kansas & N.C. State tied into FBI’s college basketball probe, new indictments issued

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    5,825

    Default

    I am no lawyer, but I have yet to see any crimes. NCAA violations are not necessarily crimes.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Irving, TX
    Posts
    7,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I am no lawyer, but I have yet to see any crimes. NCAA violations are not necessarily crimes.
    How about filing fraudulent tax returns? If money changed hands, the income should have been reported by the recipients. Remember, that's what landed Al Capone in Alcatraz.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    5,825

    Default

    I have yet to see anyone charged with that....in the 80's (I believe) there was a similar investigation and in the end, no one was convicted as the appeals judge ruled there were no crimes....We shall see...

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lacrosse, Washington
    Posts
    5,940

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I am no lawyer, but I have yet to see any crimes. NCAA violations are not necessarily crimes.
    Wire Fraud 18 USC 1343

    Travel act conspiracy and actual 18 USC 1952

    Honest Service Fraud 18 USC 1346

    Bribery and solicitation of bribery 18 USc 201

    False statements to cover scheme 18 USC 201
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

    Don't mess wth happy...Coach Few

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    147

    Default

    "Kansas released a statement later Tuesday: "Earlier today, we learned that the University of Kansas is named as a victim in a federal indictment. The indictment does not suggest any wrongdoing by the university, its coaches or its staff"

    Victim.......

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I am no lawyer, but I have yet to see any crimes. NCAA violations are not necessarily crimes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    Wire Fraud 18 USC 1343

    Travel act conspiracy and actual 18 USC 1952

    Honest Service Fraud 18 USC 1346

    Bribery and solicitation of bribery 18 USc 201

    False statements to cover scheme 18 USC 201
    I suspect that the FBI would not be investigating if they didn't feel that there was evidence of crime. They would not just do the dirty work that the NCAA is afraid to tackle.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    5,825

    Default

    I suspect FBI thought there was a crime down at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge .....we will see if there are any convictions...

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    13,892

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    Most countries call it “business”....America is the exception
    Much more true than most of us Americans know.

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
    - Gandalf the Grey

    ________________________________



    Foo Time

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,525

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I suspect FBI thought there was a crime down at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge .....we will see if there are any convictions...
    No conviction always equals no crime



    Convictions on the runners are one thing. Unless there is a huge release of information the NCAA will will be safe to sit back and do nothing. I fear that the only way you see a big name school take action is if there is video of a the coach handing money to a recruit. Runners and middleman take the fall while the kingpins continue on.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    5,825

    Default

    No conviction means there was no conviction.....that is all it means...it does not mean there was no crime, nor does it mean those charged were innocent....at least to a non lawyer like me...

    The NCAA's resources are insignificant, compared to those of the Justice Department and the FBI.....I am under the impression that charging a person can lead to their cooperation in charging those further up ...at least that is what the talking heads on TV say...

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    15,703

    Default

    Proving my naivety yet again, I am shocked that Kansas is involved.

    "Victim," though?

    That takes some real brass to use that word in your press release.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Colville, Wa.
    Posts
    12,404

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post

    "Victim,"
    Tremendously poor choice of word(s), IMO.

    Not sure if anyone in Media Relations in Lawrence has been watching the news lately. We have seen some victims; KU BB, you ain't one of 'em.
    "but I did not shoot the deputy...."

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Irving, TX
    Posts
    7,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sittingon50 View Post
    Tremendously poor choice of word(s), IMO.

    Not sure if anyone in Media Relations in Lawrence has been watching the news lately. We have seen some victims; KU BB, you ain't one of 'em.
    Everyone's a victim today, just take a gander at the OKC Thunder, who suspended their play by play announcer for a game because of his "Westbrook's playing out of his cotton pickin' mind".

    Now I have two reasons to root against OKC, the first being their trade of Domas to the Pacers.

    I'd like to smuggle a copy of Blazing Saddles into their locker room, just to see heads explode.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Everyone's a victim today, just take a gander at the OKC Thunder, who suspended their play by play announcer for a game because of his "Westbrook's playing out of his cotton pickin' mind".

    Now I have two reasons to root against OKC, the first being their trade of Domas to the Pacers.

    I'd like to smuggle a copy of Blazing Saddles into their locker room, just to see heads explode.
    My first reason to root against them is their being allowed, by Stern. to be stolen from Seattle. Domas made me ALMOST want to consider following him while there, but, for me, I can now follow the Pacers free of the anger that OKC instills.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    11,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    How about filing fraudulent tax returns? If money changed hands, the income should have been reported by the recipients. Remember, that's what landed Al Capone in Alcatraz.
    Mail fraud Tex.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    Posts
    945

    Default Poor Kansas

    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    Proving my naivety yet again, I am shocked that Kansas is involved.

    "Victim," though?

    That takes some real brass to use that word in your press release.
    Any more brass than this?

    ""The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s like incredible," Trump said."
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ny_voters.html The President was talking about voting in an election, but it could have just as easily been a reference to the votes of members of a jury pool in any of the many courtroom trials he has experienced (or any he may encounter in the future).

    Anytime you hear someone claim that a failure to convict (be it in the FBI's NCAA investigation, the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, or whatever) somehow establishes innocence, take a moment to consider our President's words. He is probably right. Juries, after all, are comprised of people -- not perfect people, not always uniformly bright people, and sometimes of people unwilling to follow the law given to them by the judge (Wiki the term "jury nullification" if this last notion doesn't make sense to you). Bart said it best: "No conviction means there was no conviction.....that is all it means."

    Some banks claim to be too big to fail. By donning the victim's cloak, Kansas hopes it is too loved to be convicted. Kansas hopes that when some of those fans become jurors, they will be so loyal that Kansas "won't lose any votes" for an acquittal. It is incredible, and it may not work. But it may. We will see.
    SLOZag
    "Kids come here to better their own lives, not ours. If you take a player’s failures as a personal affront…. check yourself." - Chick-Stratino'sUrDaddy

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    Proving my naivety yet again, I am shocked that Kansas is involved.

    "Victim," though?

    That takes some real brass to use that word in your press release.
    I think that is the basis of the whole FBI investigation, that the universities are the "victims". Money is going from agents to players or assistant coaches without the universities knowledge, which if caught would cost the universities money due to NCAA penalties. Whether they actually are the victims or not is up for debate, but that's the grounds the FBI has to investigate on.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    15,703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bdmiller7 View Post
    I think that is the basis of the whole FBI investigation, that the universities are the "victims". Money is going from agents to players or assistant coaches without the universities knowledge, which if caught would cost the universities money due to NCAA penalties. Whether they actually are the victims or not is up for debate, but that's the grounds the FBI has to investigate on.
    That is a good explanation. Thank you, and it does make some sense in that specific context.

    I guess it is a question of whether anyone would buy the fact that the universities don't know. I suppose it is a case by case basis.

    I have trouble believing that a head coach doesn't know. But, let's say a head coach doesn't know, but he knows that seemingly "out of the blue" a player signs that hadn't really been a priority and hadn't really shown much interest. To me, the head coach has a fiduciary duty to the university to at least go to the player and say "Hey, what's up? Did anyone make you any promises or ...." that would be the minimal amount of investigation that I would expect of an employee of mine, if I were the president of the university.

    That presumes that the president of the university prefers to remain clean and not have the school's name dragged through the ringer through all of this, and we have reason to believe that many presidents don't have that ideal. I am surprised that Kansas would be in that position, given how long Coach Self has been there, how much success, how little "help" he needs recruiting, and the near bottomless "downside" to getting caught.

    Kansas has so much to lose and not a ton to gain by taking such risks. They already win their conference year in and year out, are almost always top 4 seeds, have such rich tradition, and are a decent (not elite) but good academic institution.

    NC State playing in both Duke and UNC's shadow? I can see why people there would want to take greater risks (not that it makes it okay). All I am saying is there is a pressure there that makes me find it less surprising to see NC State on the list than Kansas.

    I am almost always "pro-college athlete" and of the belief that the head coaches have too much power. But, if they ARe going to have that power, then I see them as having a special duty to know of and prevent these types of things from happening. IOW - it would be hard for me to see a situation where Bill Self is truly an innocent "victim" - don't know about Kansas as an institution.

    BUT, I don't know as much about the entire investigation and such as others here and I appreciate your reply. It made a great deal of sense.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    15,703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SLOZag View Post
    Any more brass than this?

    ""The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s like incredible," Trump said."
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...ny_voters.html The President was talking about voting in an election, but it could have just as easily been a reference to the votes of members of a jury pool in any of the many courtroom trials he has experienced (or any he may encounter in the future).

    Anytime you hear someone claim that a failure to convict (be it in the FBI's NCAA investigation, the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, or whatever) somehow establishes innocence, take a moment to consider our President's words. He is probably right. Juries, after all, are comprised of people -- not perfect people, not always uniformly bright people, and sometimes of people unwilling to follow the law given to them by the judge (Wiki the term "jury nullification" if this last notion doesn't make sense to you). Bart said it best: "No conviction means there was no conviction.....that is all it means."

    Some banks claim to be too big to fail. By donning the victim's cloak, Kansas hopes it is too loved to be convicted. Kansas hopes that when some of those fans become jurors, they will be so loyal that Kansas "won't lose any votes" for an acquittal. It is incredible, and it may not work. But it may. We will see.
    Preaching to the choir, is all I will say.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Pub
    Posts
    6,128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    I suspect that the FBI would not be investigating if they didn't feel that there was evidence of crime. They would not just do the dirty work that the NCAA is afraid to tackle.
    To be honest, I wonder why the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York doesn’t have better things for his office to do with their time and resources. It’s not like that office has any oversight of financial crimes on Wall Street, organized crime, international terrorism, government fraud, human trafficking, narcotics trafficking, hate crimes, discrimination cases...
    "The Foo is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered together on one message board with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson blogged alone." JFK -4.29.62-

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,525

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Centre Mad Man View Post
    To be honest, I wonder why the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York doesn’t have better things for his office to do with their time and resources. It’s not like that office has any oversight of financial crimes on Wall Street, organized crime, international terrorism, government fraud, human trafficking, narcotics trafficking, hate crimes, discrimination cases...
    You would figure Chuck Rhoades was too busy trying to take down Axe capital? Maybe this is the AG's way of boosting the Ivy league to a prominent hoops league.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •