Zag for Life
Everybody knows Hailey, even Geno at UConn knows Hailey. SeaCat and I discussed her in a different thread.Originally Posted by bartruff1
I would love to have her at GU but it is likely that her sights are set just a little bit higher than Gonzaga, like the national championship. But until the ink is dry, figuring out 17 year old minds is not very easy and anything can happen.
ZagDad
Zag for Life
Ha, if GU didn't already know about Van Lith I'd say they've been living under a rock. Pretty much everyone in the country is after her. I think she has the potential to be a MUCH better college basketball player than Pangos was.
Kennel Club Material
You all do know that one of the WBB assistant coaches is from...Cashmere...?
Zag for Life
No, I did not know that, but I doubt that it will matter much, but something is better than nothing.
Who knows, maybe her lifelong dream is to be a Zag (My daughter's was and she had lots of options to go to high profile schools and stayed with GU because she always wanted to be a Zag). Maybe she wants her friends and family have a chance to watch her play.
ZagDad
Redshirt
ZagDad and Sylean,
Coach said she was unable to attend the girls basketball camp last week as much as she wanted because she and her assistants were recruiting. My question to you and any one else here is why is there so little info about recruiting on the women's side? Where do I go besides ESPN to get national recruiting news? Who are we watching? Any visits coming up? The two boards are very different, the men's side is all speculation and the women's side is mostly about signing announcements. Any thoughts?
Zag for Life
I'm sorry....it won't happen again...
Zag for Life
I'm sorry...
Zag for Life
good questions and I have no idea why we can't get more info out from someone, anyone....
maybe speculation is a bad thing but it hasn't hurt the men's team...
the only info I can get is from some off handed remark a coach may make and who the coaches "like" on facebook or twitter....
CLF made a remark last year on her radio talk show about how they were recruiting a "big girl" but she "can move"....subsequently, I think I saw a tweet/facebook post from one of our coaches to the team or to this young player so I am assuming we're going after Allissa Pili...spelling might be wrong...
I go to rebkell for ncaa news...
other than that, its like we live in a secret society....lol
Zag for Life
No need to apologize Bart, just having a little bit of fun at your expense.
Zag for Life
No Worries Bart. Thanks for posting.No need to apologize Bart, just having a little bit of fun at your expense.
ZagDad
Zag for Life
There are many reasons for the lack of news on recruiting from the ladies side.
1. There are very few national recruiting sites that have any information on women recruits. You mentioned ESPN, Sylean noted rebkell and there is MaxPreps. There is probably 10 times or more sites dedicated to recruiting men's BB (free and pay) than there are for women's BB. So there is definitely a lack of information on women's recruiting in a central location.
2. The number of posters (not readers) on ladies side of this board is a fraction (maybe less than 5%) of the number of posters on the men's side. Fewer posters mean there are less people willing to spend the time to track down leads, and follow HS or AAU teams. Without people willing to do the leg work, there is almost no info to provide for speculation. With the lack of response on this board, it is hard to want to do the leg work unless you have the time and is something you are interested in.
3. Sylean summed it up pretty well. The coaches and team are not going to give you leads on who they are recruiting. You may get some clues by listening to the coach's show, following the women's wbb and individual coaches twitter feeds. For example, on the GU women's wbb twitter page (https://twitter.com/ZagWBB) it has a picture about the coaches hitting the recruiting trail. The GU logo is in a bubble pointing to Utah. Hint?? On CLF's twitter page (https://twitter.com/FortZagWBB) she mentions that she is in Chicago to watch a tournament. Then use some legwork, see what tournaments are occurring, what teams are playing, and who is on the teams. Many of the AAU teams (and coaches) have their own twitter or facebook pages as do many of the players. Many times the players and/or coaches will note on social media when they meet or are offered by a college. Takes time and dedicated people to uncover any information. As Tommy Lloyd says, the information posted on social media is only about 5% correct, so all your legwork may be for naught.
ZagDad
Kennel Club Material
The number seems to be 13... the number of players on the team each year. It may flex one way or the other due to player availability... but the number of scholarship players seems to be around 12.
Looking at Zagineers charts gives a good look at what the future needs will be. Then comes the fun... finding a student athlete that plays the position needing to be filled that also fits the Zag profile.
I wouldn’t show my hand...
Had a chance during the WBB camp to go thru the new BB center... it has to help when trying to recruit top level players.
Go Zags!!
Zag for Life
Well Skip, just for giggles, I looked it up for you. According to a number of sites, the maximum number of D1 basketball scholarships that can be awarded is 13 for the men and 15 for the women. Both are listed as "Head Count" sports (partial scholarships not permitted, I guess). The women have a higher maximum number of scholarships I guess to help offset the impact of football on the overall number of scholarships.The number seems to be 13... the number of players on the team each year. It may flex one way or the other due to player availability... but the number of scholarship players seems to be around 12.
I have never seen the Lady Zags with that many scholarship players, so I would assume that since GU does not have football, the men and women basketball teams both have 13 scholarships available but the women could increase that to 15 if the athletic department and the board of trustees permitted it.
Link: http://www.speeddevelopment.net/NCAA...hletes.com.pdf
Link: http://www.scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html
Link: https://student-athleteshowcase.com/...Allotments.pdf
ZagDad
Zag for Life
15 seems like a lot for a basketball roster. I think many coaches don't use up their allotment of scholarships.
Zag for Life
I can see where a coach could use more than 13 scholarships when going after a transfer. For example, our 2018/2019 transfer Anamaria Virojoghe will use a scholarship for this up coming year but will not play. Thus, it ties up a scholarship for this year without directly helping the team. I can see that using a scholarship for Anamaria but still having 13 scholarships playing on the court would be beneficial.
However, you can only use what the Athletic Department funds and the Board of Trustees approves.
ZagDad
Zag for Life
Injuries happen and in any given season most teams probably have 1 or more players sitting out a red shirt year, but 15 is still a big number to juggle. Some obviously are not going to get any playing time.
Kennel Club Material
I think flexibility is important... I like the number 12 when talking players on a BB team.
Having a scholarship set aside is a must.
Having a walk on or two works if you want more players for practice.
Red shirts are fine but only for incoming transfers.
If there is a great player available wanting to go to GU, have that scholarship available.
If you are a player wanting time on the court, 12 looks better than 15.
Playing 10 players a game works for me with 2 for flexibility, injury and illness.
We have lost a few players in the past years over playing time, family and coaching changes.
We may gain some with the grad rule.
Just some thoughts...
Go Zags!!
Zag for Life
We may gain some with the grad rule.
what grad rule?.....I read that it is easier to become a grad transfer, that the present coach can't slow the move....
Zag for Life
The NCAA made some changes to the "transfer" rules, not specifically the "grad" transfer rule.
1. The NCAA is going to establish a national database with all student athletes who have been granted their release from their scholarships. As soon as a student athlete is listed in the database, they can be contacted by any coach or coaching staff.
2. A student just has to notify the school they are planning to transfer and the school has two (2) business days to release that student athlete from their scholarship and notify the NCAA so the student athlete can be placed in the database. The school cannot refuse to release a student from their scholarship which has been all too common place particularly in the SEC. Previously the student athlete had to request permission from the school to be released from their scholarship, there was no requirement for the school to release them from their scholarship.
3. Another change the NCAA made was to the red shirt rule. A student athlete can still take a red shirt year as long as they have not played in more than four (4) games.
Keep in mind that these are NCAA rule changes, individual conferences can pass more restrictive transfer requirements. The SEC has been famous for not permitting transfers (including grad transfers) to transfer to other schools in the SEC. They have recently eliminated this restriction for grad transfers.
Here are some links to the rule changes passed by the NCAA along with some commentary on how the changes will help the student athletes:
Link: https://fansided.com/2018/06/13/ncaa...-athletes-win/
Link: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...tes/698386002/
Link: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...lete-transfers
Link: https://sports.yahoo.com/student-ath...170705488.html
ZagDad
Kennel Club Material
It would be interesting to know the WBB coaches thoughts on grad transfers. Good question for Lisa...
On the men’s side it seems to work for the current year but is it undermining the undergrad program.... you’ve worked your butt off to try to win a starting spot just to have a grad transfer step in. We have seen some good players step away... whether they could have been that good who can say.
With a number of players on the men’s side leaving early, I can see the plus for the grad transfer. On the women's side with very few moving on after graduating and having a year left... different situation.
I like that both Chandler and Z are staying for their last year... I think JB may regret she didn’t. (If she had a problem with GU, she should have maybe looked at a grad transfer option)
Go Zags!!
Redshirt
Thanks for pointing out these transfers changes ZD. It will be interesting to see how they impact the recruitment of transfers. It seems to have created and even playing field for transferring despite the conference.
Zag for Life
First and foremost, keep in mind that the new NCAA transfer rules are not intended to help the collegiate programs, they are to help the students. Many collegiate programs have and many still are, protecting their programs at the expense of the student athletes by refusing to release them from their scholarships (when requested to do so) and limiting where they could transfer if they did release them from their scholarships. SEC football teams have, notoriously have been the worst offenders, but not the only ones.
The most nationally reported case in Wbb dealt with the transfer of Leticia Romero, silver medal winner for Spain at the Rio Olympics. She played her freshman year at Kansas State (same school that GUs Taylor Karr transferred from). She requested an unconditional release from her scholarship from Kansas State. K-State wanted to limit the schools she could transfer to. Leticia sued K-State for her unconditional release. I don't remember if she won or K-State finally relented, but in the end she was granted her release and transferred to Florida State to complete her last three years of collegiate eligibility.
UW refused to grant Katelon Redmon her release after a coaching change. They made her play her freshman year for the Huskies and then allowed her to transfer to GU. To the best of my knowledge GU has never refused to release a student from their scholarship when requested. Most recently, they allowed Lexi Bando to follow Kelly Graves to Oregon.
GU has had some very high profile transfers in the WBB but I don't remember any Grad Transfers transferring to GU. Mak Williams only played her senior year, but she was not a grad transfer.
GU is in an interesting position. They play in a great environment, provide a fantastic education opportunity and have a good chance every year to make the NCAA tournament. The bad news is that we play in a relatively poor conference with little chance at having national exposure. We also, currently, have a single player playing in the WNBA, so we have little history (CLF has none) developing players to make the WNBA (contrary to the GU Mbb). Players who play for a P-6 conference team that has not qualified for tournament may want to play in a better supported environment and for a team that usually makes the NCAA tournament. GU is a perfect place to finish their collegiate career. If the ladies can do better than the first round in the NCAA, they become an even better destination for transfers.
As far as transfers leaving the GU program, excluding Jill Barta, Danielle Walters and Maiki Viela all who left early but did not transfer (Maiki may have transferred but it was not widely reported as such), and Grace Collett who left due to family issues, the only transfers out of the GU Wbb program in recent years have been non-starters who left because of lack of playing time (Kacie Bosch, Zhani, etc.). The GU Wbb program has certainly benefitted much more so than they have lost due to having student athletes transfer over the past 5-10 years. I don't think this will change too much with the new transfer rules. Maybe we might be able to pick up some top notch WCC talent that was not available to us before.
I think the best way to improve our chances at acquiring top notch transfers is to go further in the NCAA tournament and get our name out nationally, like the GU Mbb have done. Playing top notch teams in the Kennel does not hurt either.
I am not worried about potential transfers impacting our team chemistry. Every year new players (freshman and transfers) come and some players go. If you are a very good player, you will get your playing time whether it is starting or coming off the bench. Better play equals more playing time, better match-ups equals more playing time (or should). I liked what I saw from freshman JT and the Wirth twins particularly at the end of the year. Hopefully the Wirth twins will be a little stronger and a little more aggressive this year. A little more height this year would not hurt. Next year with Anamarie we will be taller, but more height never hurt.
ZagDad
Zag for Life
Keep in mind that there is a big difference between men's and women's BB.
The NBA has 30 teams, the WNBA has 12 teams. The lowest paid benchwarmer in the NBA is making about 1.4 mil. per year. The top paid player in the WNBA is making maybe 150K, tops. The NBA has a G-League and a summer league, the WNBA has neither. To make a good living playing basketball, the top women's players have to go overseas. The men that can't/don't make the NBA go overseas.
Male collegiate stars make use of the 1-and-done because even if the are they last benchwarmer on a team they make a great living and they have 2.5 times more chances to make an NBA team than the women have making a WNBA team. That is why is extremely rare to have a 3year player choose to go to the WNBA or go to Europe rather than finish out their college education. It is almost impossible to make the WNBA even for 4 year players. Unless you are an extremely talented player or simply are done with school, leaving early is not in the ladies best interest. It is in the best interests of the most talented young ladies that want to continue to play basketball, to get the most time on the court, in the best environment in the most visible locations. Riding the pine, for anyone, is usually not beneficial to the young women if basketball is her desired career choice (coaching differences aside). The changes to the transfer rules will make it easier for these young ladies to move to a college where they may get a better chance to show their talents.
I disagree somewhat with Skip. No team guarantees a starting position just because a person has put their time into the program. In fact, the program (and coaching staff) have an obligation to put the best team on the court they can. If they can improve their team through the use of transfers, grad transfers, and/or incoming freshman, then they need to do so as long as they are not sacrificing their core values (personality, education, etc.). The ladies team almost always had a transfer or two under KG, under CLF we had (Georgia) who was recruited by KG and next year we have Anamaria. I think CLF has not used the transfer rule to the best of her ability and this has compromised the team to some extent (talent, quality back-ups, physicality, etc.).
I liked JB and was sorry to see her go. She had top 25 talent. She is extremely talented and if she wanted to play in Europe she would have lots of suitors. I have not seen or read anywhere where she has signed a contract for the upcoming season. Maybe it is just as JB said, it was time for her to begin a new career. JT and the Wirth twins may eventually have Top 25 talent, but we need to see if it develops. I have high hopes for Kylee and Melody but they will need time.
In my opinion, to get the GU Wbb back up to Top 25 and/or Sweet 16 caliber, we need better and more talent either thru better recruiting or thru transfer. It is all on CLF and her staff now, no more riding on KG's coattails from this season on.
ZagDad
Kennel Club Material
Hey ZagDad... let me clarify my point on a player being disappointed about not starting. This point was on a grad transfer stepping to a starting position. I was speaking only about players feelings... not that they deserved the spot.
I have seen this happen in a number of sports over the years. EWU’s football program is very successful with their pride and commitment to their players. I feel GU’s WBB is the same... and I hope they stay that way. You talked about the different ways to build a program to a top 25... I like the recruit and grow within.
I liked JB also and thought her team play improved a ton this year... and I was very disappointed that things couldn’t be worked out to have her stay. Again... in the long run, for whatever reason, GU and her teammates were not enough for her to stay.
CLF has a lot on her plate when it comes to running a D1 program and choosing great student athletes will be a winner.
Go Zags!!
Zag for Life
Ideally, this is the best method. However, when players don't develop as you intended (Zhane, Kacie) for whatever reason, injuries (Emma W.), Personal Issues (Grace), your top notch recruiting class can leave many holes in your line-up through no fault (or limited fault) of the coaching staff. When faced with weaknesses within the team, transfers can fill the void until the recruiting can catch up with the deficiencies within the team. The one big benefit of transfers is that they are essentially a known commodity while it is somewhat of a crap shoot whether incoming freshman are going to be a D-1 star, a role player or a bench player.I like the recruit and grow within.
I am not necessarily advocating CLF go out and go hog wild on the transfers. If a known transfer can make the team better, it would be doing the team a disservice not to at least consider the matter of a transfer. With the notable exception of Georgia Stirton, I don't remember any team chemistry issues with players like, Haiden Palmer, Taelor Karr, Lindsey Sherbert, Katelon Redmond, Tiffanie Shives, Mak Williams, Meghan Winters, etc. all of whom were transfers to GU and improved the teams they played on.
Transfers are simply another tool in the arsenal. Not the only tool in the belt and maybe not the preferred tool in many situations, but a tool, nevertheless, which can be effectively used to fix a problem. KG effectively used the transfer to transform GU Wbb and put it on the map. CLF has not made use of the transfer until now with Anamaria and we won't know how that turns out until at least next year at the earliest. Time will tell if CLF can put the same or better quality team on the court as KG did. I think we can all hope that she does, no matter how she does it.
ZagDad
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