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Thread: Petrusev on ESPN2 at 9:00 am this morning

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxon_zag View Post
    g prep would get absolutely shallacked by a team like Montverde... I wish they were invited as it would have been refreshing for them to see what it's like when the other guys can recruit too and you aren't just taking dumps on public schools. Queue angry G-prep parents in 3...2...1

    As a fellow Ferris grad, all I can say about your constant bashing of G Prep, "Let it go."

    And since no one has mentioned it, the Central Valley girls won the national championship on the same day at the same location. Beating a TN team that averaged 6' 1" with a 6' 7" center. And if any of you are old enough to remember Jerry Skaife from his Idaho days, his daughter Camryn who plays for CV was selected to the all tournament team.

  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    Parents of good players call G Prep too and they're looking for a superior education to go along with development of athletic skills. It's not exactly like Prep goes out scouring the countryside to recruit the best players. Parent call....most of their kids are homegrown though. Ever see a kid stolen from LC? NC? FERRIS? "No" is the answer and you won't see that happen.
    The subject isn't education, though. It's basketball. And that tournament is about winning basketball games. Some of those schools are about getting talent from wherever they can find it. It's about being a winning program. And while you are lauding the GSL for not being that way, you are okay with taking a player (Petrusev) that bought into the prep school 'factory' system and is at Montverde (I am guessing) simply because of that.

    Why is it that when people can't win the sports argument, they retreat right to education? It's just not relevant.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Crazy View Post
    The subject isn't education, though. It's basketball. And that tournament is about winning basketball games. Some of those schools are about getting talent from wherever they can find it. It's about being a winning program. And while you are lauding the GSL for not being that way, you are okay with taking a player (Petrusev) that bought into the prep school 'factory' system and is at Montverde (I am guessing) simply because of that.

    Why is it that when people can't win the sports argument, they retreat right to education? It's just not relevant.
    NO, the "subject" that Abe was addressing was an attack on G-Prep for "recruiting" over public schools. Abe's point is spot on. Parents do call Prep because it does offer superior education to the public schools (though Dist 81 has nothing to apologize for), and can offer development that the public schools cannot. It is not so much G-Prep recruiting as it is G-Prep sought out. And he's right, Prep doesn't go poach kids out of other teams in the GSL.

    That was the point Abe was addressing, which had a great deal to do with education.

    You seem to recoil every time someone brings up the importance of the education side of things, not caring 0% about academic all-Americans, insulting people about their "Catholic school chums," taking whacks at the WCC for actually caring about education, all while telling us that the key to being a good basketball program is basketball only. I see a lot of "basketball-only" types of programs around the country right now; Louisville, Arizona, even Kentucky, that aren't doing all that hot on the "basketball-only" side of things, which makes me think that Mark Few has been on to something all along, in seeking balance.

    GU has always been about balance, balancing what you study, what you do, how you do it. Our guys do yoga, they take 400 level philosophy classes, they go to Final Fours, and they scrape the floor for loose balls with 4:00 mins to go in a game they're up 20. I think they're all related in some way. Of course, I didn't come up with that formula, that's not my hypothesis, that claim goes to the coaching staff, and before them the administration, and before them, the Jesuits. You likely don't know this, but the Jesuit character of the school has played a huge role in their success in ways you can't imagine.

    I have always said that every school that sets about to be the next Gonzaga is sure to fail, bc it takes "Zags" to be the next Gonzaga, and they're only making Zags in one place, and there's a special way to make them. It involves education, no matter how much that might make you uncomfortable.

    And how did Abe "lose the sports argument"? He made a minor note about the fact that G-Prep doesn't actually recruit over Dist 81 schools very much. That's it.

    Weird, though, because when one actually does lose an argument, retreating to education is not a bad idea at all.

    Education is always relevant.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    NO, the "subject" that Abe was addressing was an attack on G-Prep for "recruiting" over public schools. Abe's point is spot on. Parents do call Prep because it does offer superior education to the public schools (though Dist 81 has nothing to apologize for), and can offer development that the public schools cannot. It is not so much G-Prep recruiting as it is G-Prep sought out. And he's right, Prep doesn't go poach kids out of other teams in the GSL.

    That was the point Abe was addressing, which had a great deal to do with education.

    You seem to recoil every time someone brings up the importance of the education side of things, not caring 0% about academic all-Americans, insulting people about their "Catholic school chums," taking whacks at the WCC for actually caring about education, all while telling us that the key to being a good basketball program is basketball only. I see a lot of "basketball-only" types of programs around the country right now; Louisville, Arizona, even Kentucky, that aren't doing all that hot on the "basketball-only" side of things, which makes me think that Mark Few has been on to something all along, in seeking balance.

    GU has always been about balance, balancing what you study, what you do, how you do it. Our guys do yoga, they take 400 level philosophy classes, they go to Final Fours, and they scrape the floor for loose balls with 4:00 mins to go in a game they're up 20. I think they're all related in some way. Of course, I didn't come up with that formula, that's not my hypothesis, that claim goes to the coaching staff, and before them the administration, and before them, the Jesuits. You likely don't know this, but the Jesuit character of the school has played a huge role in their success in ways you can't imagine.

    I have always said that every school that sets about to be the next Gonzaga is sure to fail, bc it takes "Zags" to be the next Gonzaga, and they're only making Zags in one place, and there's a special way to make them. It involves education, no matter how much that might make you uncomfortable.

    And how did Abe "lose the sports argument"? He made a minor note about the fact that G-Prep doesn't actually recruit over Dist 81 schools very much. That's it.

    Weird, though, because when one actually does lose an argument, retreating to education is not a bad idea at all.

    Education is always relevant.
    Wow. Well said!

  5. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    NO, the "subject" that Abe was addressing was an attack on G-Prep for "recruiting" over public schools. Abe's point is spot on. Parents do call Prep because it does offer superior education to the public schools (though Dist 81 has nothing to apologize for), and can offer development that the public schools cannot. It is not so much G-Prep recruiting as it is G-Prep sought out. And he's right, Prep doesn't go poach kids out of other teams in the GSL.

    That was the point Abe was addressing, which had a great deal to do with education.

    You seem to recoil every time someone brings up the importance of the education side of things, not caring 0% about academic all-Americans, insulting people about their "Catholic school chums," taking whacks at the WCC for actually caring about education, all while telling us that the key to being a good basketball program is basketball only. I see a lot of "basketball-only" types of programs around the country right now; Louisville, Arizona, even Kentucky, that aren't doing all that hot on the "basketball-only" side of things, which makes me think that Mark Few has been on to something all along, in seeking balance.

    GU has always been about balance, balancing what you study, what you do, how you do it. Our guys do yoga, they take 400 level philosophy classes, they go to Final Fours, and they scrape the floor for loose balls with 4:00 mins to go in a game they're up 20. I think they're all related in some way. Of course, I didn't come up with that formula, that's not my hypothesis, that claim goes to the coaching staff, and before them the administration, and before them, the Jesuits. You likely don't know this, but the Jesuit character of the school has played a huge role in their success in ways you can't imagine.

    I have always said that every school that sets about to be the next Gonzaga is sure to fail, bc it takes "Zags" to be the next Gonzaga, and they're only making Zags in one place, and there's a special way to make them. It involves education, no matter how much that might make you uncomfortable.

    And how did Abe "lose the sports argument"? He made a minor note about the fact that G-Prep doesn't actually recruit over Dist 81 schools very much. That's it.

    Weird, though, because when one actually does lose an argument, retreating to education is not a bad idea at all.

    Education is always relevant.
    His first sentence was literally about parents of good players calling GP because of education as well as athletic development.

    When did I say that I don't value education? I'm actually going to be using further education to increase my economic and professional opportunities. Perhaps put down your bias and seek for understanding? Not caring about Academic All-American achievements doesn't mean I don't care about academics.

    Academics did not save GU. Basketball did. You have the luxury of talking about academics the way you do, because of the success of this program on the court. When coaches contracts are written up, they are based on athletic performance. You can graduate all the seniors you want, you can have all the Academic AA's you want, but if you don't win you're out. A player can be a great scholar, but if he performs below a certain level of athletic expectation...he's out. Winning moves the needle. Winning puts money into the program. I can tell that you have not coached. When your job is on the line, academics of your students have their place. But most coaches aren't stressing about whether or not they can produce academic all-american's. And if you took a look at the pitches that get made by perennial Top 25 programs, very rarely if ever is "academic all-american" coming up in visits. Even for Mark Few. Unless of course the parent or the player bring it up, or is known/suspected to find it as a benefit.

    If I was a coach, and a player made it known (at any point) that an Academic AA was important to him, I would do all in my power to facilitate that (provided he didn't abandon his on-court production to do so) pursuit. If I have a kid (or kids) ready for the NBA and going to get stacks-on-stacks of green in guaranteed money (i.e. Zach Collins, Domantas Sabonis), I'm not gonna convince him/them to stay and finish academics. I'm telling him to get his checks and finish when he can. Like any responsible coach would.

    As far as Louisville and Arizona, they are struggling not because they are basketball-only, but because one coach is a proven cheater, and the other has had some assistance that are either guilty or suspected of cheating, plus may very well have cheated himself. Kentucky is doing fantastic. While very few people outside of Kentucky believe that he isn't guilty (and I think he should be held accountable, there is no room for cheating), he has done a phenomenal job with the players he has recruited. He has done right by those kids. He gets more kids to the league than any other coach. Kentucky will be fine, as long as someone doesn't catch Coach Cal cheating. As well, his approach to coaching and playing is about as innovative as you can get. He sets his players and their families up for success.

    And believe it or not, there are universities such as Duke that rank significantly higher in academics than GU, that will require a certain level of academics of their students...but make no mistake: basketball comes first for the basketball program. You don't bring in RJ Barrett, Zion Williamson, Cam Reddish, and Tre Jones because you are looking for academic all-american's. And yet? Duke is still going to be a top academic institution. The players that want the education for all four or five years during their collegiate playing career will take it. The ones that don't, won't. Duke will still be Duke, and Duke basketball will still be Duke basketball. My mentality is not uncommon. In fact, it's probably pretty par for the course among the best/higher level coaches (of which I am not one, and never will be).

    I value education. I just understand how that fits within the hierarchy of a basketball program. It's not a puritanical thing, for me. If someone has better athletics, my go-to isn't "but what about the education?". That pivot is ineffective.

    If Mark Few produced a Dual-AA every year, but wasn't winning? Gonzaga. Would. Fire. Him. ESPN isn't giving GU tv contracts because of Academic AA's. We don't really have this message board or the majority of the traffic because of academics. They have their place, but it's not something I'm going to wax poetic about.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cggonzaga View Post
    Wow. Well said!
    And very accurate! I don't think it should take a post to explain that.
    As Dixie's to explain the obvious. Anyway thanks for taking the time to verify and explain my most
    Most basic of points! Nice post BTW.
    Last edited by MDABE80; 04-06-2018 at 01:21 AM.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Crazy View Post
    His first sentence was literally about parents of good players calling GP because of education as well as athletic development.

    When did I say that I don't value education? I'm actually going to be using further education to increase my economic and professional opportunities. Perhaps put down your bias and seek for understanding? Not caring about Academic All-American achievements doesn't mean I don't care about academics.

    Academics did not save GU. Basketball did. You have the luxury of talking about academics the way you do, because of the success of this program on the court. When coaches contracts are written up, they are based on athletic performance. You can graduate all the seniors you want, you can have all the Academic AA's you want, but if you don't win you're out. A player can be a great scholar, but if he performs below a certain level of athletic expectation...he's out. Winning moves the needle. Winning puts money into the program. I can tell that you have not coached. When your job is on the line, academics of your students have their place. But most coaches aren't stressing about whether or not they can produce academic all-american's. And if you took a look at the pitches that get made by perennial Top 25 programs, very rarely if ever is "academic all-american" coming up in visits. Even for Mark Few. Unless of course the parent or the player bring it up, or is known/suspected to find it as a benefit.

    If I was a coach, and a player made it known (at any point) that an Academic AA was important to him, I would do all in my power to facilitate that (provided he didn't abandon his on-court production to do so) pursuit. If I have a kid (or kids) ready for the NBA and going to get stacks-on-stacks of green in guaranteed money (i.e. Zach Collins, Domantas Sabonis), I'm not gonna convince him/them to stay and finish academics. I'm telling him to get his checks and finish when he can. Like any responsible coach would.

    As far as Louisville and Arizona, they are struggling not because they are basketball-only, but because one coach is a proven cheater, and the other has had some assistance that are either guilty or suspected of cheating, plus may very well have cheated himself. Kentucky is doing fantastic. While very few people outside of Kentucky believe that he isn't guilty (and I think he should be held accountable, there is no room for cheating), he has done a phenomenal job with the players he has recruited. He has done right by those kids. He gets more kids to the league than any other coach. Kentucky will be fine, as long as someone doesn't catch Coach Cal cheating. As well, his approach to coaching and playing is about as innovative as you can get. He sets his players and their families up for success.

    And believe it or not, there are universities such as Duke that rank significantly higher in academics than GU, that will require a certain level of academics of their students...but make no mistake: basketball comes first for the basketball program. You don't bring in RJ Barrett, Zion Williamson, Cam Reddish, and Tre Jones because you are looking for academic all-american's. And yet? Duke is still going to be a top academic institution. The players that want the education for all four or five years during their collegiate playing career will take it. The ones that don't, won't. Duke will still be Duke, and Duke basketball will still be Duke basketball. My mentality is not uncommon. In fact, it's probably pretty par for the course among the best/higher level coaches (of which I am not one, and never will be).

    I value education. I just understand how that fits within the hierarchy of a basketball program. It's not a puritanical thing, for me. If someone has better athletics, my go-to isn't "but what about the education?". That pivot is ineffective.

    If Mark Few produced a Dual-AA every year, but wasn't winning? Gonzaga. Would. Fire. Him. ESPN isn't giving GU tv contracts because of Academic AA's. We don't really have this message board or the majority of the traffic because of academics. They have their place, but it's not something I'm going to wax poetic about.
    This is about HS kids and GPrep Coach. You've expanded the topic to GU. Nice try. But seriously at Prep is IS about education. If you don't get the grades you sit no matter how athletically gifted. These Jesuit schools in general are there for education first. Basketball is good and is a feature but the real mission is education. Among th biggest reason why the AA's with academic AA was voted so highly in the recent poll .
    Last edited by MDABE80; 04-06-2018 at 01:24 AM.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Crazy View Post
    The subject isn't education, though. It's basketball. And that tournament is about winning basketball games. Some of those schools are about getting talent from wherever they can find it. It's about being a winning program. And while you are lauding the GSL for not being that way, you are okay with taking a player (Petrusev) that bought into the prep school 'factory' system and is at Montverde (I am guessing) simply because of that.

    Why is it that when people can't win the sports argument, they retreat right to education? It's just not relevant.
    Phys Ed vs Physics.

  9. #34
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    Filip will be joining the Zags with an advantage that Rui never had: a year in the US to study and learn/improve his English skills.

    I lived in Germany for four years, and my German was quite good when I departed. I never considered the thought of attending a German university.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Filip will be joining the Zags with an advantage that Rui never had: a year in the US to study and learn/improve his English skills.

    I lived in Germany for four years, and my German was quite good when I departed. I never considered the thought of attending a German university.
    Rui will also get practice with American media next season i.e post-game interviews, pressers, radio & tv shows, etc. Just another good reason to stick around to prepare for the rigors of the NBA.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    And he's right, Prep doesn't go poach kids out of other teams in the GSL.
    Simply not true.

    When I was at Ferris I witnessed this first hand. When I was a junior we had an tremendous athlete who was a sophomore. 6' 5" long and lanky. Reminded me of George Gervin. We were WRs and always practicing in the same groups. He made two catches in football practice that I only witnessed on Sundays. But, basketball was his sport.

    One day in practice the head coach (Niksich) came up to him and said, "Glad to see you're still here instead of at Prep." He said, "Thanks coach." We asked him about that and he said he had been 'recruited' by Gonzaga Prep to go to school there. They 'might' not do it now, but they certainly did it back then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robzagnut View Post
    Simply not true.

    When I was at Ferris I witnessed this first hand. When I was a junior we had an tremendous athlete who was a sophomore. 6' 5" long and lanky. Reminded me of George Gervin. We were WRs and always practicing in the same groups. He made two catches in football practice that I only witnessed on Sundays. But, basketball was his sport.

    One day in practice the head coach (Niksich) came up to him and said, "Glad to see you're still here instead of at Prep." He said, "Thanks coach." We asked him about that and he said he had been 'recruited' by Gonzaga Prep to go to school there. They 'might' not do it now, but they certainly did it back then.
    They still do. I do not want to give names or schools but I have it on reliable source that a public HS basketball player was being recruited by Prep just prior to his HS freshman enrollment in 2016. So parents do contact Prep but most of the high end kids that did not attend the numerous K-8 Catholic Parochial schools that end up at Prep get contacted in some way. Whether it is in passing, "Hey Mr. or Mrs. PSA you should give us a call", or having current students "make contact", or making practice time, training or AAU team spots "available", coaches watching AAU games, etc. We can all put our head in the sand and say it does not happen because there is no "overt evidence" but it happens. The public HS cannot not foot the bill for an AAU team but they can, and so do, support certain teams that are geared to their system. Not by money but by encouraging kids in their district to try out for this team or that team, or some of their assistant coaches volunteering to coach said AAU teams. But at the public HS there is no "Financial Aid-Tuition Fair Share" incentive to play for them.

    On a side note several posters have mixed GU basketball with Prep basketball, and while they both share the Gonzaga name and are Jesuit founded, they are not part of the same entity. Different folks running each place, different board members, different realm and so on. Prep basketball does not run any of their decisions through the GU Athletic department and GU doesn't hand down policy to Prep. So I think we should keep them separate.
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  13. #38
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    "recruited" is kind of a loose term...... Did the coaches go to the home and? I suppose this whole topic isn't worth much. Academics rule. So much the better if you can ball.....

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