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Thread: No Time to Reminisce. Mountain West Conference? When? And Will the Zags need . . .

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    I doubt any bridges have have been burned Bart. Adults all around who know the score and who don’t shrink from honest conversations.
    I hope you are right....I thought this Roth interview was a disaster ....
    Last edited by bartruff1; 03-25-2018 at 03:15 PM.

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I hope you are right....I though this Roth interview was a disaster ....
    Sorry, which interview are you referring to, CBS , Spokesman?

  3. #128
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    My experience over the last 40 years dealing with controversial issues is to say nothing, if you can....say as little as possible if you have to say something...and issue a press release to control the message.....

    The FBI's approach to not comment on a ongoing investigation is the way to go, imo ....until something has actually been decided....

    And like a divorce , I would be as gracious and thankful to WCC as I could.....you don't have to say anything about a lack of respect for the Conference or your off setting non conference scheduling.... or your RPI falling....it doesn't matter if it is true....serves no good purpose...

    If you are ever asked ..." does this make my butt look big "........be very careful what you say...
    Last edited by bartruff1; 03-25-2018 at 04:21 PM.

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh View Post
    And UNLV by them selves have had more playoff success than Gonzaga. Won a NC and been to 4 finals fours.
    UNLV was a member of the Big West when it went to the Final 4 and won its championships. Not the MWC.

    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh View Post
    I’m pretty sure no D1 AD in the country would make a conference affiliation decision based upon how it effects cross country and soccer..lol
    I've been thinking about this and it really bugs me, because its incredibly misguided and shortsited.

    I've pointed out in other threads on this topic that for a private school like Gonzaga, the most important resource that it has is its successful alumni. It should come as no surprise to you that D1 athletes from all sports typically are high achievers in life in general. Often times that success is financial which makes them alumni with big pockets. Which brings us full circle and might help you to realize why respecting the needs of other teams beyond MBB is a smart long and short term strategy. We alumni who competed in other sports besides MBB have a keen interest in how the athletic department supports the interests of our former teams. For example, I have recently been representing a group of 150 alumni trying to get additional financial support for the Cross Country and Track teams at Gonzaga.

    So whereas I'm a little offended that you're dissing my sport, I'm more offended that you don't understand the larger picture. (Offended is probably to strong a word, but I don't feel like getting out my Thesaurus right now).

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    My experience over the last 40 years dealing with controversial issues is to say nothing, if you can....say as little as possible if you have to say something...and issue a press release to control the message.....

    The FBI's approach to not comment on a ongoing investigation is the way to go, imo ....until something has actually beem decided....

    And like a divorce , I would be as gracious and thankful to WCC as I could.....you don't have to say anything about a lack of respect for the Conference or your off setting non conference scheduling.... or your RPI falling....it doesn't matter if it is true....serves no good purpose...

    If you are ever asked ..." does this make my butt look big "........be very careful what you say...
    I think thats good advice.

  6. #131
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    Seems highly unlikely GU will announce NOW that it will play 1 more year in the WCC and then move to the MWC. Doing that would bring a whole new level of abuse down on the shoulders of GU players as they move through away games in the WCC in 2018-2019.
    It would be interesting to read the WCC Membership Agreement as to what happens to GU's share of NCAA earnings if GU leaves the WCC now. Would GU be walking away from their share of NCAA earnings attributed to 2013, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18 or are those earnings "vested" regardless of whether GU is or is not a member of the WCC? Only the GU "conference divorce lawyers" know for certain.

    Go Bulldogs!
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    Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by 75Zag View Post
    Seems highly unlikely GU will announce NOW that it will play 1 more year in the WCC and then move to the MWC. Doing that would bring a whole new level of abuse down on the shoulders of GU players as they move through away games in the WCC in 2018-2019.
    It would be interesting to read the WCC Membership Agreement as to what happens to GU's share of NCAA earnings if GU leaves the WCC now. Would GU be walking away from their share of NCAA earnings attributed to 2013, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18 or are those earnings "vested" regardless of whether GU is or is not a member of the WCC? Only the GU "conference divorce lawyers" know for certain.

    Go Bulldogs!
    This is a question I have as well.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    Not at all....I was objecting to hiring him as a consultant...my objection to going to the Mountain West is that Gonzaga is a small Jesuit school in a conference with other small faith based institutions with basketball as the major sport....the MW is comprised of large state schools with football as the major sport....imo BYU should join them....Bart Guy...

    I will add that I was not impressed by the Nevada coache's antics....
    Mussleman is a USD alumn. LOL I don't like coaches that act like they're having a 2 hour tantrum either to be honest.

    If you don't want to associate with "state schools" then you are pretty much limited to the WCC. Going to the Big East puts your team at a huge disadvantage because of travel - and it matters not that you have a charter, 5 hour plus flights and 3 hour time changes every other week will wear a team down. Then at the end of the season you once again travel to the East coast to play in the conference tournament in NYC. Not sure what you would do with your other sports, would the WCC still want them once you take basketball away?

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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    This is a question I have as well.
    Me too. Some have speculated that Wichita St might jump again, but I'd bet there are financial considerations that would make that an unlikely move. Of course, lawyers can sometimes make even the harshest of terms more palatable to both parties, prolonged litigation has it's price too.
    Birddog

    Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
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  10. #135
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    Just for the sake of clarifying the record.

    Mountain West Conference NCAA Tournament W-L record:

    NCAA Tournament: 47 Teams (22-47), 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/mwc/ncaa.html

    Mountain West Conference NCAA Tournament W-L record since BYU left:

    NCAA Tournament: 8-18, 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships

    WCC:
    NCAA Tournament: 85 Teams (82-85), 4 Final Fours, 2 Championships

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/wcc/

    WCC Since MWC was started:
    NCAA Tournament: 38-34, 1 Final Four


    Gonzaga:
    NCAA Tournament: 31-21, 1 Final Fours

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/gonzaga/

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by AztecDen View Post
    Not sure what you would do with your other sports, would the WCC still want them once you take basketball away?

    This could be feasible as our Women's Basketball Team has a large enough following to help keep the WCC vegas tournament afloat (maybe). If Gonzaga were agree to keep the SMC and BYU rivalries going, this could be a potential third option. Although I don't think it will happen.

  12. #137
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    JMO, but a conference switch to the MWC will be all or nothing, except for women's rowing, not sure where they would land.
    Birddog

    Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    Just for the sake of clarifying the record.

    Mountain West Conference NCAA Tournament W-L record:

    NCAA Tournament[FONT="]: 47 Teams (22-47), 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships

    [/FONT]
    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/mwc/ncaa.html


    WCC:
    NCAA Tournament[FONT="]: 85 Teams (82-85), 4 Final Fours, 2 Championships

    [/FONT]
    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/wcc/

    Gonzaga:
    NCAA Tournament: 31-21, 1 Final Fours

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/gonzaga/
    The MWC has only been around for 19 years. The WCC has been around for 66 years. How about we add the WAC to make things a bit more fair since the MWC was born from the WAC:

    Western Athletic Conference NCAA Tournament

    Record: 56 Seasons, 8113-6649, (Records do not reflect forfeits and vacated games)

    NCAA Tournament: 95 Teams (65-101), 2 Final Fours, 0 Championships

    Ranked in AP Poll: 29 (Preseason), 38 (Final), 544 (Total)

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by AztecDen View Post
    The MWC has only been around for 19 years. The WCC has been around for 66 years. How about we add the WAC to make things a bit more fair since the MWC was born from the WAC:

    Western Athletic Conference NCAA Tournament

    Record: 56 Seasons, 8113-6649, (Records do not reflect forfeits and vacated games)

    NCAA Tournament: 95 Teams (65-101), 2 Final Fours, 0 Championships

    Ranked in AP Poll: 29 (Preseason), 38 (Final), 544 (Total)
    Better yet how about just comparing the Mark Few years (19) with the MWC
    Birddog

    Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by 75Zag View Post
    Seems highly unlikely GU will announce NOW that it will play 1 more year in the WCC and then move to the MWC. Doing that would bring a whole new level of abuse down on the shoulders of GU players as they move through away games in the WCC in 2018-2019.
    It would be interesting to read the WCC Membership Agreement as to what happens to GU's share of NCAA earnings if GU leaves the WCC now. Would GU be walking away from their share of NCAA earnings attributed to 2013, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18 or are those earnings "vested" regardless of whether GU is or is not a member of the WCC? Only the GU "conference divorce lawyers" know for certain.

    Go Bulldogs!
    That would be included in those "other" considerations several members have be posting about inbetween being shout down that we don't care about Mbb.

    Just one of many.

    Continue on.

    ZagDad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birddog View Post
    JMO, but a conference switch to the MWC will be all or nothing, except for women's rowing, not sure where they would land.
    San Diego State has rowing but, I don't know where they compete.

    Your men's soccer is another issue. They may have to move to the WAC or if allowed, stay in the WCC. What I would like to see is we take UNLV, Air Force, and SJSU (those three from the WAC) along with GU and join the PAC-12. SDSU joined the Pac12 in men's soccer but, they still just have 6 teams. Ten would be better.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by AztecDen View Post
    The MWC has only been around for 19 years. The WCC has been around for 66 years. How about we add the WAC to make things a bit more fair since the MWC was born from the WAC:

    Western Athletic Conference NCAA Tournament

    Record: 56 Seasons, 8113-6649, (Records do not reflect forfeits and vacated games)

    NCAA Tournament: 95 Teams (65-101), 2 Final Fours, 0 Championships

    Ranked in AP Poll: 29 (Preseason), 38 (Final), 544 (Total)
    I've tried to update the rankings and wins above to make them more relavent to the current situation.


    WCC Since MWC was started:
    NCAA Tournament: 38-34, 1 Final Four

    Mountain West Conference NCAA Tournament W-L record:

    NCAA Tournament: 47 Teams (22-47), 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/mwc/ncaa.html

    Mountain West Conference NCAA Tournament W-L record since BYU left:

    NCAA Tournament: 8-18, 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships

    WCC has 16 more NCAA wins than the MWC since the MWC came into existence, despite having only 3 more games.

    Since the MWC came into existence
    WCC NCAA win percentage is 53%
    MWC NCAA win percentage is 32%
    WCC win percentage without Gonzaga 35%
    MWC win percentage without BYU is 31%


    Any way you shake it, WCC has had more success in the NCAA's. Mostly due to Gonzaga, but Gonzaga of course was playing the majority of its games against the WCC and no other way to say it, being prepared by the WCC for the NCAA's.


  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    Just for the sake of clarifying the record.

    Mountain West Conference NCAA Tournament W-L record:

    NCAA Tournament: 47 Teams (22-47), 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/mwc/ncaa.html

    Mountain West Conference NCAA Tournament W-L record since BYU left:

    NCAA Tournament: 8-18, 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships

    WCC:
    NCAA Tournament: 85 Teams (82-85), 4 Final Fours, 2 Championships

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/wcc/

    WCC Since MWC was started:
    NCAA Tournament: 38-34, 1 Final Four


    Gonzaga:
    NCAA Tournament: 31-21, 1 Final Fours

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/gonzaga/
    Those historical records are pretty irrelevant to the discussion at hand (WCC championships were in the 1950's )especially when you consider how teams have moved in and out of these conferences. Taking Zags out of the equation, if you look at how the current teams in each conference have fared in the last 15 years or so in the tourney you will find that 6 different teams from the MWC have advanced to the sweet 16 and only 1 WCC team has accomplished that feat (SMU).
    WCC is clearly not as good a basketball conference as MWC and it isnt even debatable,

  19. #144
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    Yup AztecDen....only two options....the church league or the state universities.....I doubt the WCC would see any advantage to allowing the other sports...they can travel by bus to the other universities....going to Spokane for the other sports would be expensive....

    IF I owned the WCC, I would sell BYU and Gonzaga and Portland and give the money to the other schools for their endowments...

    Looking at their locations and the futility of trying to compete with the Pac and the Pro teams....I would downsize the athletic programs and build intern stem programs with Facebook, Google, Apple, Amazon ect....maybe go division 2 or lower...make it fun again... no TV

    College sports has become a cesspool of turds and money and likely to get worse.... I would probably hire Bill Walton for fun and have him turn it into a bus stop league....The Conference of Non Champions..

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birddog View Post
    Better yet how about just comparing the Mark Few years (19) with the MWC
    Fine with me just make sure you state the conference record with and without Gonzaga as that is what the debate is all about.

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    I've tried to update the rankings and wins above to make them more relavent to the current situation.


    WCC Since MWC was started:
    NCAA Tournament: 38-34, 1 Final Four

    Mountain West Conference NCAA Tournament W-L record:

    NCAA Tournament: 47 Teams (22-47), 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships

    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/mwc/ncaa.html

    Mountain West Conference NCAA Tournament W-L record since BYU left:

    NCAA Tournament: 8-18, 0 Final Fours, 0 Championships

    WCC has 16 more NCAA wins than the MWC since the MWC came into existence, despite having only 3 more games.

    Since the MWC came into existence
    WCC NCAA win percentage is 53%
    MWC NCAA win percentage is 32%
    WCC win percentage without Gonzaga 35%
    MWC win percentage without BYU is 31%


    Any way you shake it, WCC has had more success in the NCAA's. Mostly due to Gonzaga, but Gonzaga of course was playing the majority of its games against the WCC and no other way to say it, being prepared by the WCC for the NCAA's.

    And now, take Gonzaga out of the equation.

  22. #147
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    Big East talk is nonsense.......none of those schools need us or would be willing to come to the west coast multiple times
    Agreed......church league or state schools

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    Quote Originally Posted by dazags View Post
    According to Wikipedia- San Jose State, Cal State Fresno, UCSB, Nevada Reno, UNLV, and Seattle U. are all former members of the WCC.
    SPOT ON...I was going to post the 'coaching records'.........even the "Tark".... coached in the WCC! It's "FRESNO STATE UNIVERSITY'.... I was wrong on Utah State...I was thinking of San Jose STATE........ In 1974-75 UNLV came in first, lost one League game and had a 24-5 record...... Left that next year.......so GU has some precedence....

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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    UNLV was a member of the Big West when it went to the Final 4 and won its championships. Not the MWC.



    I've been thinking about this and it really bugs me, because its incredibly misguided and shortsited.

    I've pointed out in other threads on this topic that for a private school like Gonzaga, the most important resource that it has is its successful alumni. It should come as no surprise to you that D1 athletes from all sports typically are high achievers in life in general. Often times that success is financial which makes them alumni with big pockets. Which brings us full circle and might help you to realize why respecting the needs of other teams beyond MBB is a smart long and short term strategy. We alumni who competed in other sports besides MBB have a keen interest in how the athletic department supports the interests of our former teams. For example, I have recently been representing a group of 150 alumni trying to get additional financial support for the Cross Country and Track teams at Gonzaga.

    So whereas I'm a little offended that you're dissing my sport, I'm more offended that you don't understand the larger picture. (Offended is probably to strong a word, but I don't feel like getting out my Thesaurus right now).
    If your "keen interest" is reflected in large donations to the AD then your voice sure as hell will be heard. I read an article a while back about a small group of Gonzaga donors who by themselves fund the Gonzaga charter plane. If those dudes do a thumbs down to MWC then Zags will likely say in WCC. In big time athletics, money talks. Also, I have great respect for division 1 track athletes. A lot of training and innate talent is involved, but it isnt a revenue sport so it wont be much of a factor in conference affiliation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    UNLV was a member of the Big West when it went to the Final 4 and won its championships. Not the MWC.



    I've been thinking about this and it really bugs me, because its incredibly misguided and shortsited.

    I've pointed out in other threads on this topic that for a private school like Gonzaga, the most important resource that it has is its successful alumni. It should come as no surprise to you that D1 athletes from all sports typically are high achievers in life in general. Often times that success is financial which makes them alumni with big pockets. Which brings us full circle and might help you to realize why respecting the needs of other teams beyond MBB is a smart long and short term strategy. We alumni who competed in other sports besides MBB have a keen interest in how the athletic department supports the interests of our former teams. For example, I have recently been representing a group of 150 alumni trying to get additional financial support for the Cross Country and Track teams at Gonzaga.

    So whereas I'm a little offended that you're dissing my sport, I'm more offended that you don't understand the larger picture. (Offended is probably to strong a word, but I don't feel like getting out my Thesaurus right now).
    I agree. I was a distance runner who received a scholarship to UCI. Because of the implications of Title IX and the fact SDSU (where I finished my education) has a football team we no longer offer men's CC, track or even beach volleyball (where we won a national championship in 1973). I am not a big fan of college football especially in terms of what it has done to conferences. I do follow our other sports and it is good to see the university recognize their success at football and basketball games. Like you said, most Olympic sport athletes are high achievers who go on to big things after college. By the way, I ran for Bob Larsen when he coached at Grossmont College for one year before he left for UCLA. Had GC competed with the 4 years schools we would have gone to the NCAA championship the two years I was there

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