Salty tears of disappointment thread

[cggonzaga]

I thought he was uncharacteristically passive with shot selection. I thought he had some chances to pull the trigger and seemed to hesitate. No doubt FSU's length contributed to this.

Couldn’t agree more.

[cggonzaga]

Few and the staff made a brilliant call on this. They knew whoever was guarding JIII and Rui would have to back off on pressing them for fear of being blown by. The issue occurred when JIII took way to long to get it to Melson or Perkins to initiate the offense once he reached the top of the key area.

1) IF staff made that call, yikes! 2) Offense out of sorts all game as it took forever to get in offense 3) Players out of position all game that left limited time on shot clock and kept us out of normal flow of offense.

[Markburn1]

1) IF staff made that call, yikes! 2) Offense out of sorts all game as it took forever to get in offense 3) Players out of position all game that left limited time on shot clock and kept us out of normal flow of offense.

Remember West Virginia last year? Who broke the press?

[former1dog]

IMO the biggest problem in this game, besides unforced turnovers and missed layups, was the fact that for some unknown reason Mark Few abandoned the zone defense in the second half after it allowed the team to go on a run to get back into the game?

I know why Few abandoned the zone in the first half, because FSU got hot from three. But, then he went back to it in the second. Gonzaga promptly got back into the game with a nice run. FSU did not start hitting a bunch of threes vs the zone, but for some reason we went man to man and never got back into the zone that had worked so well.

I'll always scratch my head on that one.

[allnet59]

IMO the biggest problem in this game, besides unforced turnovers and missed layups, was the fact that for some unknown reason Mark Few abandoned the zone defense in the second half after it allowed the team to go on a run to get back into the game?

I know why Few abandoned the zone in the first half, because FSU got hot from three. But, then he went back to it in the second. Gonzaga promptly got back into the game with a nice run. FSU did not start hitting a bunch of threes vs the zone, but for some reason we went man to man and never got back into the zone that had worked so well.

I'll always scratch my head on that one.

Well that makes two of us left scratching our heads. Instead of trying to run around playing man to man on defense and watching one guy pouring in the points I would have stayed in the zone and let them beat me from three. Someone posted that it looked like we ran out of gas the last five minutes or so.. The zone might have saved some lungs and legs with a shorten bench.

[MontanaCoyote]

May have missed a comment on this but I don’t think our guards do as well on offense when they’re defensed constantly, in your face, up close and personal, clawing, unrelentingly pestered and pressured. FSU guards were just all over ours. I think it really Frustrates our guys who are pretty much used to being allowed to “set up” the offense. With no Tillie to go to increased the Pressure.... one less relief valve. Some FSU player, mostly guards but others too, always seemed to “be in the
way” of where our guy wanted to go. Almost seemed that they had six players out there.

Next year? Hope Tillie stays and we add some athletic depth to the inside game.

[ZagsGoZags]

I can't second guess Tillie being held out. It might have been the Medical advice, not Few or Tillian's decision. Few would not override strong medical advice.
We can't say their defense is the reason our shots weren't falling only. Bad free throw night, where defense doesn't matter. On the other hand their defense ha us disoriented, and it became a head case for many players. Melson esp. seems to choke for stroking crucial free throws, and Rui did also, while Josh can be counted on. I thought their tall, active defense was a good lesson for Rui, Zach and Kispert to experience. They kept attempting offensive moves that work in the WCC, and you could see would not work at the higher level. Makes me want to find another conference for our guys to play the Jan, Feb games in, even if it means more losses. J3, Melson, and Josh have seen this kind of defense before, and didn't make offensive moves that we could see would be doomed from the start. I hope Cory's ankles will get to 100% so he can work on his defensive quickness more.
I am proud we made it to Sweet 16, without all the horses we would like. Rui please stay.

[maynard g krebs]

[QUOTE=MickMick;1380057] Tillie would have been swallowed up like everyone else not named Hachimura /QUOTE]

I was thinking that Tillie's almost automatic 10' one handed flip shot was just what the Zags were lacking inside. Rui got stuffed a couple of times going straight up w/ the ball inside; needs to develop ZN's up and under, or something deceptive.

Losing a key starter w/ no time to adapt, and against an opponent like this, really threw the Zags off kilter imo. I thought that showed up early, in the form of several bad 3's, esp Melson's and then ZN's. Panicky out of the gate imo. Tillie's ability to stretch the floor creates spacing for everybody else; he's been guarded closely in the two tourney games due to his WCC tourney performance.

I think w/ Tillie the data from 538, Kenpom etc is correct; Zags win 7 of 10. As soon as I heard Tillie was out I figured the chances of a win dropped from 70 to 20-30 at best. Can't play a team like that w/ only 2 bigs. Had to use JJ as a big in the first half, and a limping Larson.

[gonstu]

[QUOTE=maynard g krebs;1380296]

Tillie would have been swallowed up like everyone else not named Hachimura /QUOTE]

I was thinking that Tillie's almost automatic 10' one handed flip shot was just what the Zags were lacking inside. Rui got stuffed a couple of times going straight up w/ the ball inside; needs to develop ZN's up and under, or something deceptive.

Losing a key starter w/ no time to adapt, and against an opponent like this, really threw the Zags off kilter imo. I thought that showed up early, in the form of several bad 3's, esp Melson's and then ZN's. Panicky out of the gate imo. Tillie's ability to stretch the floor creates spacing for everybody else; he's been guarded closely in the two tourney games due to his WCC tourney performance.

I think w/ Tillie the data from 538, Kenpom etc is correct; Zags win 7 of 10. As soon as I heard Tillie was out I figured the chances of a win dropped from 70 to 20-30 at best. Can't play a team like that w/ only 2 bigs. Had to use JJ as a big in the first half, and a limping Larson.

Agree with everything you said. +1

[gueastcoast]

[QUOTE=maynard g krebs;1380296]

Tillie would have been swallowed up like everyone else not named Hachimura /QUOTE]

I was thinking that Tillie's almost automatic 10' one handed flip shot was just what the Zags were lacking inside. Rui got stuffed a couple of times going straight up w/ the ball inside; needs to develop ZN's up and under, or something deceptive.

Losing a key starter w/ no time to adapt, and against an opponent like this, really threw the Zags off kilter imo. I thought that showed up early, in the form of several bad 3's, esp Melson's and then ZN's. Panicky out of the gate imo. Tillie's ability to stretch the floor creates spacing for everybody else; he's been guarded closely in the two tourney games due to his WCC tourney performance.

I think w/ Tillie the data from 538, Kenpom etc is correct; Zags win 7 of 10. As soon as I heard Tillie was out I figured the chances of a win dropped from 70 to 20-30 at best. Can't play a team like that w/ only 2 bigs. Had to use JJ as a big in the first half, and a limping Larson.

Best synthesis of what I've been reading on the board since Thursday night...well put

[Zag79]

Leaving a time out on the board in the first half, not staying in an extended zone before half, going man in the second half, sitting certain players on the bench for too long in key moments, a lot of this game came down to coaching. Unfortunately, in basketball you can't always use the "players didn't shoot well" or "the lack of athleticism" excuse when losses look seemingly very familiar. One thing I noticed watching the game a second time, the team just lacked confidence, swagger, and that hunger that I was used to seeing them play with. Even coach during and after the game, seemed almost OK with the fact that they lost due to Tillie being out. I think that affected them mentally more than people understand, and unfortunately played as much of a role in the losses anything else.

[Hoopaholic]

Leaving a time out on the board in the first half, not staying in an extended zone before half, going man in the second half, sitting certain players on the bench for too long in key moments, a lot of this game came down to coaching. Unfortunately, in basketball you can't always use the "players didn't shoot well" or "the lack of athleticism" excuse when losses look seemingly very familiar. One thing I noticed watching the game a second time, the team just lacked confidence, swagger, and that hunger that I was used to seeing them play with. Even coach during and after the game, seemed almost OK with the fact that they lost due to Tillie being out. I think that affected them mentally more than people understand, and unfortunately played as much of a role in the losses anything else.

I attribute this to having a critical starter 15 minutes before tip being unable to play

Psychologically, preparation, matchups, rotations all thrown out window

[MontanaCoyote]

true.....but can GU get tough enough playing WCC teams 18x a year

I went to SDSU game and last nights game....both games players out of their comfort zones

Faced intense, in your face pressuring, pestering defense. Not allowed to come down and set up. Need more opponents that do what SDSU and FSU did. Practice makes perfect. Maybe move to MW would do this, at least a better chance?

[jazzdelmar]

Leaving a time out on the board in the first half, not staying in an extended zone before half, going man in the second half, sitting certain players on the bench for too long in key moments, a lot of this game came down to coaching. Unfortunately, in basketball you can't always use the "players didn't shoot well" or "the lack of athleticism" excuse when losses look seemingly very familiar. One thing I noticed watching the game a second time, the team just lacked confidence, swagger, and that hunger that I was used to seeing them play with. Even coach during and after the game, seemed almost OK with the fact that they lost due to Tillie being out. I think that affected them mentally more than people understand, and unfortunately played as much of a role in the losses anything else.

Spot on.

[MDABE80]

Mick's [post is near perfect a description of what happened. This also led to horrible spacing and bunching up and overloading regions with defenders....tall ones. What really sunk the ship then was simply missed shots. We are too short on Bigs. Loss of Tillie changed everything. It had major consequences. Do I think we're a better team than FSU? I do. The only thing that might have saved this game was a very stout defense. We're just not good at that when it comes to higher end teams that have length. When we can't make shots, it's the defense that'll win games. ...more so when playing good teams.

[raise the zag]

My least favorite Coach Few post-game pressor of all-time.

Had a very ho-hum response: "Hey, I knew watching game tape that we would struggle mightily all game long. Just that much harder with Tillie out. In my 19 yrs as Head Coach, they are the most physically imposing team I've seen, etc etc etc"

Barely para-phrasing.

Honestly, didn't seem he had much hope, and didn't reel certain guys in (Silas & Norvell), or play guys with only 2 fouls enough, when it matters most.

We were down 1pt with 3 mins to go in 1st half and gave up a 11-1 run with no timeout and J3 & Rui sitting. This isn't the time of year to let ANY run happen without a timeout or save your guys. Not likely BOTH would ring up their 3rd foul, so go all in! They did, and so have other teams with foul trouble.

Our guys struggled vs their size, but the lack of confidence/moxy in our shots and plays and team well was lost. Gone. From opening tip on.

Some of this was obviously Tillie last-min exit, yet Coach Few seemed very non chalant, as if he expected the outcome. Coached like it too.

Had to get that off my chest.

[jazzdelmar]

Few’s been getting a pass on this game, about time someone stepped up. He had to stick w Norvell. Could have easily dropped 6 in a row. But Melson was atrocious

[Kemo 1966]

Faced intense, in your face pressuring, pestering defense. Not allowed to come down and set up. Need more opponents that do what SDSU and FSU did. Practice makes perfect. Maybe move to MW would do this, at least a better chance?

Actually, I posted 'way back yonder :

"Watching this game, I came to realize.... it was the weight of the WCC that brought down this team on its ncaa run.... to its final game. With the MW vote in April, maybe next years run in the ncaa will be 'more fruitful'....... at any rate, GOOD Luck next year!"

[zagnut2012]

I'm not giving a pass to Few in this game. Whatever the "Game Plan" was, it wasn't a good one. That being said, I am satisfied with a 4th Sweet 16 in 4 years for us. No adjustments and went away from the zone that was disruptive. Tillie's injury hurt but a better job of coaching would have helped. IMHO