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Thread: Other Games March 13

  1. #76

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    St. Mary's blowout win pushes them up to #25 in KenPom rankings!

  2. #77
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    Agree, playing those games and losing would probably have gotten them in. Here are 4 similar teams that got in with 7 losses but better KenPom SOS.

    Nevada (27-7) 79
    Houston (26-7) 86
    Rhode Island (25-7) 97
    St. Bonaventure (25-7) 98

    Saint Mary's (28-5) 174

    Incidentally, Gonzaga's SOS was only 123 this year, but we also don't get to pad our SOS by playing Gonzaga in conference twice a year. Our non-con was 83, compared to Saint Mary's at 282. 282!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by U Zig, I Zag View Post
    I don't think SMC was gaming anything, re scheduling. I think it was the opposite. Clearly if they would have played at least two of those games offered (win or lose) they would perhaps be in the tourney.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goshzagit View Post
    you are correct.

    honestly, even IF they had just played them. Win or lose.

    If they ended up 26-7, instead of 28-5 with 2 more losses vs Nevada (tourney team) and Rhode Island (tourney team)...I guarantee they are dancing this season.

    It was reported by Parrish they turned down Nevada in addition to URI.

    Apparently, they were mumbling about how good Dayton was a few years ago, and hung up the phone. (last line a joke)
    Quote Originally Posted by scrooner View Post
    Agree, playing those games and losing would probably have gotten them in. Here are 4 similar teams that got in with 7 losses but better KenPom SOS.

    Nevada (27-7) 79
    Houston (26-7) 86
    Rhode Island (25-7) 97
    St. Bonaventure (25-7) 98

    Saint Mary's (28-5) 174

    Incidentally, Gonzaga's SOS was only 123 this year, but we also don't get to pad our SOS by playing Gonzaga in conference twice a year. Our non-con was 83, compared to Saint Mary's at 282. 282!!
    Exactly.

    Can't see how they don't see the bigger picture?

    Sounds crazy, but this is all Randy making these decisions, I know it. Honestly, just by the way he shakes hands when he loses, compared to when they win tells me he is scared to death to risk a single loss. To anyone not named Gonzaga.

    Even when a potential loss could benefit the team from a NCAA/RPI/Weight perspective.

    I watched every minute of their game vs SE Louisiana. Not great competition, but you could tell they were a NCAA Tourney team compared to UCLA-St Bonnies on the other channel. (when they won by 45, he practically hung out with the SE players and Coaches, which says it all. Coach Few has same interaction/response on wins or loses. Congratulatory.)

    They definitely belong, but didn't do enough to convince the Committee. 80% was weighed toward OOC play, even who you played.

    SMC ranked near the bottom in the entire NCAA, and probably dead last of the Top-10 Conference teams.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigblahla View Post
    NV Don---hey bro you need to lighten up.....the difference between harvested summer eel and winter eel is the thickness of their skin....this is the GU board and you need to have thicker skin.....I respect the game played in Moraga....but I don't like the black horde.....what Gollum has done is remarkable but everyone knows he has been gaming the system with his scheduling for years counting on beating GU to get to he Dance....the barbs here come with the territory of fandom and that has little to do with real life...
    We are going to make fun of a sad situation that is and has been in the control of your TEAM always....just like it's a who you know world....the NCAA is a who you play world....so grin and bear the barbs....they are well deserved by your program which by all means keeps doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result....Good Luck in the NIT....

    Just my opinion....

    Go!! Zags!!!
    I do have thin skin sometimes. I think any Zag fan would react similarly when loyalty to your team is questioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada Don View Post
    Thanks for what I consider to be an objective post. So surprised that many of you forgot what it's like to be on the bottom struggling to make your program better.
    So many of you are obsessed with SMC and not just for the reasons that you are pushing us to improve ourselves. We are stuck with RB. He has some great qualities as a coach. I'm sure some even like him personally. YES WE KNOW he needs to improve scheduling. Yes we have a small GYM of 3,500. God forbid that you would ever have to play in a facility that had a capacity of only 4,000 !! Oh wait---you did !!

    Tell us something constructive Big Brother GU !! Lots of programs look up to you. SMC does too. Remember from whence you came. Could you cut back a little on the cheap shots, it's getting very old and it really isn't very becoming for a place the Quality of Gonzaga.

    Your turn, tell me I'm a jerk, lucky to be a guest here and you can say whatever you want about Saint Mary's, baseless or sometimes not.
    To my friends here, sorry.
    And, it would be nice if you could make a better showing in the Tourney this year. Last year you came up a few points short. We'll forgive you for that one, but would prefer not to see that happen again.
    Go Zags !!!
    Yea some could go easier on SMC. GU did play in the 4000 seat "Old Kennel" but since the '99 run that place was SRO, so to be constructive how about selling out every game not just some. Also the 00-01 year the Zags played at EWU, Zona, Montana, Boise St, Florida and Green Bay. The 01-02 @ Ill, UW, Monmouth, St. Joe's, and N.Mexico. The 02-03 season @ Montana, WSU, Georgia, Portland St plus the Maui Classic. Well you get the picture and can then maybe understand what GU did to get where they are now. They did not ride the coattails of anyone in the WCC and continued to challenge themselves to improve. So you might just get why some Zag fans get a bit irascible when it comes to SMC's modis operandi.

    To be even more constructive, I encourage you to maybe start a campaign to contact SMC's AD and demand better scheduling, demand that they challenge themselves. Let the AD know that if things do not change then you will show displeasure by holding back money. GU surely is sending that message to all of the WCC. I also believe SMC suffers from what many teams go through this time of the year, tired legs. Randy runs his main guys into the ground by the end of the season. They play so many minutes in the first and middle parts of the season that the main guys tire more quickly. So I can understand why they dropped the two late games of the season. Again that is not on the loyal passionate fans but on RB. RB has some great coaching chops but has not shown any indication of improving or challenging himself any further.
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    Quote Originally Posted by U Zig, I Zag View Post
    I don't think SMC was gaming anything, re scheduling. I think it was the opposite. Clearly if they would have played at least two of those games offered (win or lose) they would perhaps be in the tourney.
    The play by play guy last night specifically asked RB about those rumors of passing on those opportunities and according to the announcer, RB said none of it was true.


    Now, I am not going to call RB a liar. But mathematically it seems rather far-fetched (to me) that the coach @ Nevada, the coach @ Rhode Island & the AD @ Creighton are ALL making this sh** up.

    Must just be all one big misunderstanding.
    But we don't play nobody.

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    I think the entire thing is kind of funny. It has been clear for years that Randy isn't going to take his team on the road. He plays patsies at home, and hopes to knock off GU once or twice to squeak into the tournament, all the while hiding behind the "no one will play us" mantra. Finally, a few coaches are calling BS on that. Nevada comes to play at SMC, then asks SMC to come play in NV...randy says no. RI needs a game...nope. Creighton...nope. Oh, and don't forget that Grand Canyon game that could be a tough one on the road...let's drop some cash and buy our way out of that one. If i were an SMC fan I would be livid, and if I were Jock Landale I would be even more ticked off. There is ZERO question that team is an NCAA tournament team, but their head coach robbed them of the chance to prove it during the non conference season. 282! wow. But hey...randy is comfortable; makes a ton of money and has 25 wins locked up virtually every year. It cracks me up that some of these coaches are spilling the beans.

    I feel terrible for the team though. Those guys play beautiful basketball. I'm terrified every time we play them.

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    I don't believe Randy is a liar....I never heard those other coaches say he turned down a offer....I heard that from one of the talking heads....

    Perhaps the one that said Sean offered 100k to get a player....fake news has become epidemic in the infotainment media...reporting rumors....reporting reporting....

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    I don't believe Randy is a liar....I never heard those other coaches say he turned down a offer....I heard that from one of the talking heads....
    Fair point. I don't know who those "sources" are...the story just makes a ton of sense since no one can dispute Randy is allergic to road games.

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    Jeepers. No one is trying to compare SMC to GU, so I don’t know why GU posters are so intent on flaming the SMC program. They’ve done an amazing job at keeping that program at a very high level. Sure, scheduling could be improved, but it’s not like they stole our seed or something.

    Goid work in dominating last night, SMC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a13coach View Post
    Yea some could go easier on SMC. GU did play in the 4000 seat "Old Kennel" but since the '99 run that place was SRO, so to be constructive how about selling out every game not just some. Also the 00-01 year the Zags played at EWU, Zona, Montana, Boise St, Florida and Green Bay. The 01-02 @ Ill, UW, Monmouth, St. Joe's, and N.Mexico. The 02-03 season @ Montana, WSU, Georgia, Portland St plus the Maui Classic. Well you get the picture and can then maybe understand what GU did to get where they are now. They did not ride the coattails of anyone in the WCC and continued to challenge themselves to improve. So you might just get why some Zag fans get a bit irascible when it comes to SMC's modis operandi.

    To be even more constructive, I encourage you to maybe start a campaign to contact SMC's AD and demand better scheduling, demand that they challenge themselves. Let the AD know that if things do not change then you will show displeasure by holding back money. GU surely is sending that message to all of the WCC. I also believe SMC suffers from what many teams go through this time of the year, tired legs. Randy runs his main guys into the ground by the end of the season. They play so many minutes in the first and middle parts of the season that the main guys tire more quickly. So I can understand why they dropped the two late games of the season. Again that is not on the loyal passionate fans but on RB. RB has some great coaching chops but has not shown any indication of improving or challenging himself any further.
    Nevada Don, I am glad you contribute here and can understand your indignation about some posters flaming SMC here. OTOH, this post here is all true and reasonable critique of Gaels. Gonzaga would benefit from SMC advancing their program to the next level; it’s frustrating that RB and your admin appear content not to take the necessary and obvious steps needed to do so b
    Even though I care a lot about my basketball opinions, they are like comparing a bicycle to a championship motorcycle who is our coach. . ZagsGoZags

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    Jeepers. No one is trying to compare SMC to GU, so I don’t know why GU posters are so intent on flaming the SMC program. They’ve done an amazing job at keeping that program at a very high level. Sure, scheduling could be improved, but it’s not like they stole our seed or something.

    Goid work in dominating last night, SMC.
    I don't get it either.....obviously the people who hired Randy and pay his salary and extended his contract for 10 years are satisfied.

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    You guys are entitled to flame SMC all you want. You don't even have to be justified. It's your board. We're rivals. It's all good.

    But some of your year-in-year-out arguments are kinda tired and some are a bit ill-informed.

    Many of our posters on our board are also frustrated by RB's scheduling. He is adamant about his home-and-homes, and while it stifles the scheduling, it's also fair to says that he SHOULD be adamant. Why should he accept a system that puts a school like SMC at a competitive disadvantage? But yes, we wish we could play tougher teams too, and even our most stalwart RB defenders are starting to come around to the idea that it wouldn't hurt to take a no-return road game from time to time. Time will tell if RB ever gets to that point.

    Another point is that while this year's OOC schedule was weak (I'm not denying it), at the time they were scheduled at least SOME of those games didn't seem likely to be so weak. We got a three year commitment from Cal, just in time for their team to tank and become pitifully bad. To get that commitment RB had to break his rule and give up two away games to get a home game (not to mention the no-return game we played two years ago on their court to try and develop interest - we lost that one in a squeaker, but RB SCHEDULED A POWER CONFERENCE TEAM AWAY GAME WITH NO RETURN... baby steps). We managed to schedule Dayton, a perennially good team who... oops... happened to be pretty bad this year. Had those teams been as good as they were when scheduled our SOS would look significantly better.

    They played in the Maui Invitational (edit: Wooden Legacy). RB did not get to pick the teams that played in that. It was not as good a tourney at the PK-80. That's not on RB. We haven't been able to play in one of those tourneys in a few years thanks to some pretty unfair sanctions (no hookers or systemic academic fraud in sight). The fact that we did poorly in that tournament is on us.

    None of us know too much about the actual circumstances surrounding these so-called "snubs" by RB to Nevada, Creighton and Rhode Island, but a poster on our site at least has some connections with insight into the Nevada exchange. Seems like both teams wanted the first game of a proposed home-and-home to be their home game. Neither gave in. To say that's completely on RB is a bit disingenuous. Just as much on Nevada. We won't get any more info from RB. He is a secretive dude and doesn't like talking about the inner workings, even when throwing another coach/team under the bus would help people understand him. I don't think that's a terrible quality. I don't have any reason to doubt him when he says it didn't go down as its being portrayed in the media though. He's never impressed any of us as a dishonest guy. I doubt we'll ever get the whole story, but it's kind of crappy how the media has run with that story without providing any proof/sources.

    Finally, regarding our gym and attendance. We had a $13 million renovation planned that would have added seats. We raised $12 million and the administration scuttled the plans. Our fans are not happy. Attendance will never look anything like GU... no comparison possible. GU is the biggest draw in your relatively isolated city/region. There are no pro teams or other colleges to provide major competition. We have pro teams in all four major sports. We have TWO Pac-12 teams, as well as two other WCC teams - all within a 45 minute drive. And in spite of our success, our school is located about 15-20 minutes of winding two-lane roads from the nearest freeway. So while we're all just totally jazzed to be in the NIT instead of the NCAA's, having a 7:00 game on a weeknight with basically 24-48 hours notice just isn't going to bring in 3000+ people. A comparable program to your might be Pacific, who have the Stockton area all to themselves. If they had the sustained success we've had, they might be able to follow your template. We will never be able to do that. Logistically, it's near impossible.

    Look, our coach and our program has flaws. And our fans mirror some of your sentiments. But for those of you who focus on RB's blow by handshakes and ignore the camaraderie and jovial conversations they share BEFORE games. For those of you who mock how our gym isn't rocking on a Tuesday night without having ever made the trek to SMC (I live in the bay area, I'm a hardcore fan and alum, and I make it to a couple of games each year usually - and can't get a ticket for the GU game). To those of you who mock our program because its just so easy to do what you did in the early 2000's... I just suggest some perspective.

    Good luck in the NCAA's. We'll try to take the NIT.

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    You probably meant the Wooden Legacy - not the Maui invitational.

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    Lol. Yeah. It's not a memory I really wanted to hold onto tightly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sideshow06 View Post
    Lol. Yeah. It's not a memory I really wanted to hold onto tightly.
    We forgive you for the unforced error.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sideshow06 View Post
    He is adamant about his home-and-homes, and while it stifles the scheduling, it's also fair to says that he SHOULD be adamant. Why should he accept a system that puts a school like SMC at a competitive disadvantage? But yes, we wish we could play tougher teams too, and even our most stalwart RB defenders are starting to come around to the idea that it wouldn't hurt to take a no-return road game from time to time. Time will tell if RB ever gets to that point.
    good to hear some of the SMC faithful are warming to the idea of accepting no return road games. home and homes with the big kids are earned. as most know gonzaga didn't start getting those with unc, wake, ucla, arizona, etc until we had established the brand by beating teams of that ilk on a regular basis and using it as a springboard for success in the tournament. much of my criticisms of smc would be neutralized if RB would take ya'll on the road without the expectation that you deserve a return game. those will come with time. again, glad to hear the winds are changing over there. the players and fans do deserve better.

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    Nice post sideshow. Thanks.
    But we don't play nobody.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sideshow06 View Post
    a poster on our site at least has some connections with insight into the Nevada exchange. Seems like both teams wanted the first game of a proposed home-and-home to be their home game. Neither gave in. To say that's completely on RB is a bit disingenuous. Just as much on Nevada.
    I'm going to disagree with this point. Clearly SMC needed that matchup more than Nevada did, and they should have accepted the away game this year. Pretty silly to argue over the location of the game when your team is at its peak, unless SMC planned to buy out the away game next year.

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    There was also some suggestion that RI and Creighton wanted a game on the same date we’d already committed to Cal. Again, we’ll likely never get an explanation from RB but that’s a plausible explanation.

    Watching Stanford hosting BYU in another NIT game. Upper level completely empty and about half the lower level is BYU fans. Stanford is a power conference team, but it’s an NIT game on a Wednesday night in the Bay Area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdawg View Post
    You probably meant the Wooden Legacy - not the Maui invitational.
    Just a note. SMC was the prime team in the Wooden Classic, they played Washington State in the first round while SDSU played Georgia. We won our game and SMC lost to WSU. We then lost to WSU (one of our bad losses this year) but SMC went on to lose to Georgia in the third place game. I looked at common games, we both played Cal with SMC winning and we losing (our worse loss of the year by a great margin). We both played USD with us only with the one win at USD (we don't play home and away each year). We both played Gonzaga with us winning at home against them. We also beat Nevada twice, both time they were ranked. Outside of beating Gonzaga at home who exactly did they beat? We did beat Nevada twice at home and on a neutral court. I really don't see how SMC comes even close to be rated at #25. Y'all can 'splain that one to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AztecDen View Post
    Just a note. SMC was the prime team in the Wooden Classic, they played Washington State in the first round while SDSU played Georgia. We won our game and SMC lost to WSU. We then lost to WSU (one of our bad losses this year) but SMC went on to lose to Georgia in the third place game. I looked at common games, we both played Cal with SMC winning and we losing (our worse loss of the year by a great margin). We both played USD with us only with the one win at USD (we don't play home and away each year). We both played Gonzaga with us winning at home against them. We also beat Nevada twice, both time they were ranked. Outside of beating Gonzaga at home who exactly did they beat? We did beat Nevada twice at home and on a neutral court. I really don't see how SMC comes even close to be rated at #25. Y'all can 'splain that one to me.
    poll rankings are about perception...smc basically returned almost everyone from an ncaa tournament team that took arizona down to the wire in the 2nd round, so they were highly ranked starting in the preseason and expected to be a top 25 level team all year...when you combine that with the fact they only lost 5 games all year, beat gonzaga @ gonzaga and kept their rpi in the 20-30 range until a late collapse, you get a ranked team...pretty simple actually. polls are all about wins & losses...not sos or quadrants.

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    Here's Randy Bennett addressing scheduling on the radio just yesterday:

    http://www.knbr.com/tolbert-lund-2/

    He does say SMC never even spoke to Creighton and Parrish should be fired, and discusses his scheduling philosophy. I don't think it's a conversation that totally vindicates his approach, but if you want to know what he's thinking in his own words, this is about as close as you're likely to get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sideshow06 View Post
    Here's Randy Bennett addressing scheduling on the radio just yesterday:

    http://www.knbr.com/tolbert-lund-2/

    He does say SMC never even spoke to Creighton and Parrish should be fired, and discusses his scheduling philosophy. I don't think it's a conversation that totally vindicates his approach, but if you want to know what he's thinking in his own words, this is about as close as you're likely to get.
    Thanks to Bill Clinton, I have parsed the words of every politician for over 25 years. That philosophy has extended to a number of sports and entertainment personalities.

    The take I got from RB is "everybody's lying except me." I have no problem with grilling these sportswriters, let them quote their sources...bring everything out. Unfortunately, SMC's scheduling has been consistent for at least the past five years. IMO, the onus is on Bennett.

    ETA: my apologies for turning it off at the 8 minute mark, but Bennett pretty much stated he wasn't going to alter his approach. He thinks it's best for SMC, so good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sideshow06 View Post
    Here's Randy Bennett addressing scheduling on the radio just yesterday:

    http://www.knbr.com/tolbert-lund-2/

    He does say SMC never even spoke to Creighton and Parrish should be fired, and discusses his scheduling philosophy. I don't think it's a conversation that totally vindicates his approach, but if you want to know what he's thinking in his own words, this is about as close as you're likely to get.
    His words come from the knowledge that he signed a 10 year extension last November. He's untouchable.

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