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Thread: Serious question about zags and wcc and moving elsewhere and march madness.

  1. #1
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    Default Serious question about zags and wcc and moving elsewhere and march madness.

    I see fans hating the wcc and want us out and I see people who are fine with zags in the wcc.

    I understand both point of views. I really do.

    My main question is this:

    Would you rather move to the ACC(example) and miss march madness at times when we aren't as good?

    Or

    Stay in the wcc and even in the down years make March madness?

    I'm picking option B. Nothing more exciting then seeing gonzaga on selection Sunday.
    Love the zags for life

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags11 View Post
    I see fans hating the wcc and want us out and I see people who are fine with zags in the wcc.

    I understand both point of views. I really do.

    My main question is this:

    Would you rather move to the ACC(example) and miss march madness at times when we aren't as good?

    Or

    Stay in the wcc and even in the down years make March madness?

    I'm picking option B. Nothing more exciting then seeing gonzaga on selection Sunday.
    I like blow-outs as much as the net guy, but after a while doesn't it get a bit repetitive? One of the main goals for student-athletes is to help them grow in their abilities; why can't the entire program do that as well? Why not try to prove itself against better competition in a more competitive league? Sure the team makes it to the Dance every year, but it took 17 years to finally assemble a team worthy enough to get to the Championship game. Without the tougher competition (and greater recruiting prizes as a result) it will probably take another 17 years to repeat that feat. I understand that the chance would be greater of the Zags missing the Dance if they moved to better league, but I would think the potential rewards in recruits, prestige, and competition would outweigh that. What is life without taking the occasional chance? Its safe, soft, & unfulfilling.

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    I choose option C. Join a better league that prepares us for the tournament, so that when we get there we have a higher ceiling( in general obviously we have done very well the last 3 years). Also, be even more like a Duke, Kansas, UNC and still make the tourney every year!

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    The whole point of sports in general is the competition. If 2/3 of your contests are not even a legit competition then what is the point? I would like to think that the journey (reg season and conf tournament) is as important as the end (NCAA tourney) where the powers that be would want to make the journey as fulfilling for the student athletes and fans as possible. In the ACC, Big East, etc, through your reg season and conference tournament you are likely to play 20 games where if you come out and dont play well there is a chance you are going home with an "L"

    I can tell you the players (well at least the guys that play a lot) absolutely abhor these mismatches. Players love BIG games

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    The goal for Zags should be win bigly I mean big league.

    We outscored Portland 50 to 16 in the paint and took 35 3 pointers last night. someone mentioned we could have easily scored 120+ if our team was hot instead of just Silas from behind the arc.

    No mercy shoot for records. Embrace superiority. Play the villain on the road pressing late in games and letting student managers get quality minutes.

    Showing teams up should be done with pride. It doesn't hold us back from getting in the dance.

    Competition is for records in conference this year.

    Think Loyola and Pepperdine in the day scoring 140's except with defense.

    Gotta motivate players somehow and make blowouts worth watching.

    Can't find another league suitable. Pound the one you're in.

    or not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    The goal for Zags should be win bigly I mean big league.

    We outscored Portland 50 to 16 in the paint and took 35 3 pointers last night. someone mentioned we could have easily scored 120+ if our team was hot instead of just Silas from behind the arc.

    No mercy shoot for records. Embrace superiority. Play the villain on the road pressing late in games and letting student managers get quality minutes.

    Showing teams up should be done with pride. It doesn't hold us back from getting in the dance.

    Competition is for records in conference this year.

    Think Loyola and Pepperdine in the day scoring 140's except with defense.

    Gotta motivate players somehow and make blowouts worth watching.

    Can't find another league suitable. Pound the one you're in.

    or not
    QFT

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags11 View Post

    Would you rather move to the ACC(example) and miss march madness at times when we aren't as good?

    The ACC sent 9 teams to the tourney last season and the Big East sent 7 teams... So while I hear your view and others views on how being in the WCC damn near guarantees us a Tourney spot it's not ideal because being in the WCC is darn near zero sum. We either have to be top 15 good to get an at large bid or win our conference like we did two seasons ago when we didn't have the resume to get in the tourney. Being in a conference that's sending 7-9 teams to the tournament gives you more leeway because losing to the middle of the pack team is not as detrimental to your resume as losing to a middle of the pack WCC team. Every season we can only afford to lose to SMC or BYU in our conference... Sign me up for a better conference and better competition.

    It's just sad that the WCC refuses to better itself in basketball. The conference is such an ideal location to be the Big East of the west with schools in great locations. Some of these other schools need to get over themselves... Being profitable in basketball doesn't have to mean selling your soul. Gonzaga University has benefited overall from the success of the basketball program and so would these other schools.

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    Butler made back to back appearances in the Championship game as a member of the Horizon Conference. Since then they stepped up to the Atlantic 10 and then the reconfigured Big East. They haven't been past the Sweet 16 since they left the Horizon. The increase in competition really hasn't made Butler into a better basketball program.

    Xavier followed a similar path. Mid Continent, A-10, Big East. They've made Sweet 16's and Elite 8's all throughout their history. While they are frequently ranked in the top 10 now, they haven't kicked down the door to a Final 4 yet. I think X is overall stronger now since joining the Big East, but to think that automatically leads to more frequent deep runs in the Tourney is a fallacy.

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    Creighton is another. How much have they actually improved since joining the Big East?

    Is Wichita St. really helped at all by moving to the AAC? They were already a very strong program, and the AAC isn't all that strong. Not much more than a lateral move.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags11 View Post
    I see fans hating the wcc and want us out and I see people who are fine with zags in the wcc.

    I understand both point of views. I really do.

    My main question is this:

    Would you rather move to the ACC(example) and miss march madness at times when we aren't as good?

    Or

    Stay in the wcc and even in the down years make March madness?

    I'm picking option B. Nothing more exciting then seeing gonzaga on selection Sunday.
    I offer a third approach--incentivize the WCC to suck less. Can we offer each WCC team (outside of St. Mary's or BYU) $100k for each RPI Top-100 win they rack up in the OOC schedule? Just thinking out loud here...
    GU Class of '10, MUSC Class of '14

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh View Post
    The whole point of sports in general is the competition. If 2/3 of your contests are not even a legit competition then what is the point? I would like to think that the journey (reg season and conf tournament) is as important as the end (NCAA tourney) where the powers that be would want to make the journey as fulfilling for the student athletes and fans as possible. In the ACC, Big East, etc, through your reg season and conference tournament you are likely to play 20 games where if you come out and dont play well there is a chance you are going home with an "L"

    I can tell you the players (well at least the guys that play a lot) absolutely abhor these mismatches. Players love BIG games
    This is where I fall in as well. Its about continued elevation. I am not ok with accepting adequacy. Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, NC etc. the blue bloods, the majors, the name recognition for being powerhouses, they are at the top because of continual success, not because after one or two championships, they stayed with things as they were. I believe in continued growth and play the numbers and last year's success as you may, the WCC holds us back from getting bigger recruits and developing our players to be able to dominate against other high level talents year after year. Playing the WCC hurts our RPI, lets our players over-inflate, and worst, our players get hurt when the opposition gets frustrated and lashes out. Flagrant technicals happen more from the bottom teams than the top.

  12. #12
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    Gonzaga should just drop all sports. The admins and staff obviously don't know what they are doing and it causes too much angst here on the GU Boards.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    The Zags may make it look easy at times, but winning the WCC championship is not an easy task, from what the coaches and past players say. The Zags have been very close to not winning the league in recent memory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags11 View Post
    I see fans hating the wcc and want us out and I see people who are fine with zags in the wcc.

    I understand both point of views. I really do.

    My main question is this:

    Would you rather move to the ACC(example) and miss march madness at times when we aren't as good?

    Or

    Stay in the wcc and even in the down years make March madness?

    I'm picking option B. Nothing more exciting then seeing gonzaga on selection Sunday.
    That’s kind of a complex question fallacy. You have assumed that being in a power conference reduces our chances of making the tournament. I’m not sure I agree with that. We could tolerate more losses and recruit better in the acc, for example. The opposite might instead be true. In either case, it’s a false question.

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    Not sure what my answer is...

    but I will add this:

    Playing in a down WCC is hiding some major flaws with this team. They turn the ball over way too much, shot selection is dicey at times and many times they look outright dysfunctional in the half-court.

    JMHO... next Thursday will be a major test.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

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    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh View Post
    The whole point of sports in general is the competition. If 2/3 of your contests are not even a legit competition then what is the point? I would like to think that the journey (reg season and conf tournament) is as important as the end (NCAA tourney) where the powers that be would want to make the journey as fulfilling for the student athletes and fans as possible. In the ACC, Big East, etc, through your reg season and conference tournament you are likely to play 20 games where if you come out and dont play well there is a chance you are going home with an "L"

    I can tell you the players (well at least the guys that play a lot) absolutely abhor these mismatches. Players love BIG games
    +1
    “I don’t expect us to be perfect anytime soon,” guard Silas Melson said, “but one thing I do expect is trying to get better every day and playing tougher, harder and more physical than the opponent.”

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    I'm sure we would all love to see the Zags in a better conf. but there just isn't one that makes any sense to join. An east coast conf. just doesn't make sense..if I'm a team in the Big East would I really vote to add the Zags...No...we just don't bring enough to justify sharing a piece of the pie while adding to our travel expense. The only one that makes sense for us is the Pac12 but we don't have football. I think we are stuck here, so we may as well enjoy the blow out wins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagnificent View Post
    I offer a third approach--incentivize the WCC to suck less. Can we offer each WCC team (outside of St. Mary's or BYU) $100k for each RPI Top-100 win they rack up in the OOC schedule? Just thinking out loud here...
    Don't we already do that through the money sharing agreement in the WCC, for all our Tourney success?? As has been said numerous times in numerous threads, there is nowhere for the ZAGS to go, in addition to the fact that every other sport at GU is a perfect fit for the WCC. IMHO, even if the MBB program went independent or joined another conference as a MBB stand alone, the division from the other sports wouldn't be worth it.

    All that being said, the guaranteed beat downs get old. I think part of the problem this year is with the schedule. At 5-0, the guys have beaten the 4 conference bottom feeders and middling Santa Clara. Tomorrow's game at USF isn't going to help anything, either.

    Go ZAGS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagnificent View Post
    I offer a third approach--incentivize the WCC to suck less. Can we offer each WCC team (outside of St. Mary's or BYU) $100k for each RPI Top-100 win they rack up in the OOC schedule? Just thinking out loud here...
    I kind of like your thought. The money could come from the NCAA pot that is currently generated by GU, SMC, and BYU to some degree. Don't do annual "equal" shares to the schools not named BYU, GU and SMC. There is your incentive to go out, play somebody, and win. Maybe we should apply it to SMC too ;-)

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    Oh yeah let's 1 star a thread for no reason.
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    Not really much choice but to stay in the WCC since there are not many options out west. Our first 4 WCC games were snoozefests and I watched them while surfing on my laptop and knitting a scarf. It is what it is.

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    Another question is do they get invited to these preseason tournaments being middle of the road team in a bigger conference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPtheBeasta View Post
    The Zags may make it look easy at times, but winning the WCC championship is not an easy task, from what the coaches and past players say. The Zags have been very close to not winning the league in recent memory.
    Very close?

    How soon we forget that it was just a few years ago that the Zags did not win, or tie, for the WCC championship, instead losing it to St. Mary's. It was the first time in something like a dozen years.

    But it did happen. Prevented the Zags from beating UCLA's record for most consecutive conference championships as I recall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rezzagfan View Post
    Another question is do they get invited to these preseason tournaments being middle of the road team in a bigger conference?
    Why would you assume that we would be a middle of the road team? We are already a major program in a very mid major conference, if we joined a major conference we would not lose out on as many recruits as we currently do due to our current conference affiliation. In other words I would argue that we would be even better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thespywhozaggedme View Post
    Why would you assume that we would be a middle of the road team? We are already a major program in a very mid major conference, if we joined a major conference we would not lose out on as many recruits as we currently do due to our current conference affiliation. In other words I would argue that we would be even better.


    I agree. Bigger conference = better recruiting = more frequent deep runs when it counts.

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