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Thread: Serious question about zags and wcc and moving elsewhere and march madness.

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzagafan62 View Post
    Oh yeah let's 1 star a thread for no reason.
    Lol.
    Love the zags for life

  2. #27
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    Love the responses. Thank you to all answering.
    Love the zags for life

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagnificent View Post
    I offer a third approach--incentivize the WCC to suck less. Can we offer each WCC team (outside of St. Mary's or BYU) $100k for each RPI Top-100 win they rack up in the OOC schedule? Just thinking out loud here...
    On top of the $300K to $500k (for doing nothing) they’ll be getting every year for the next 5-6 years for being in the same conference as Gonzaga, whose 5 shares from last year alone total over $8 million. That’s $1.3 million per year for 6 years.

    The TV contract expires next year. Outside of us, BYU, and SMC, “The W” has little else to offer the networks. The Zags are the meal ticket for the WCC, and several universities are quite content with the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    Thatís kind of a complex question fallacy. You have assumed that being in a power conference reduces our chances of making the tournament. Iím not sure I agree with that. We could tolerate more losses and recruit better in the acc, for example. The opposite might instead be true. In either case, itís a false question.
    Being in a consistently multi bid conference would mean an additional $5-$10 million in tournament and TV money per year. The pressure to build your resume before Christmas would vanish.

  5. #30
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    All I know is that the bottom of the WCC has never been more bottomed out.

    I also know that we have 2 teams tied for third place that are more than 4 games below .500

    I suppose it's in part bc of the way the conference schedule worked out this year, but man does it look particularly bad this year. And, at times I don't think we've been particularly good.

    This year perhaps more than any, the conference might really hurt a team that could develop substantially, but perhaps won't. Who knows?
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zags11 View Post
    I see fans hating the wcc and want us out and I see people who are fine with zags in the wcc.

    I understand both point of views. I really do.

    My main question is this:

    Would you rather move to the ACC(example) and miss march madness at times when we aren't as good?

    Or

    Stay in the wcc and even in the down years make March madness?

    I'm picking option B. Nothing more exciting then seeing gonzaga on selection Sunday.
    Or C

    Stay in the WCC and in down years maybe not make the tourney because the conference sucks and the program errodes back into obscurity.

    In all honesty this is what I see happening if we do not upgrade conference. There is going to come a year when we hit a player lull and we do not make the tourney and that moment will compound itself
    I would never be a sellout............unless of course I got a boat load of money to do it

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Being in a consistently multi bid conference would mean an additional $5-$10 million in tournament and TV money per year. The pressure to build your resume before Christmas would vanish.
    I think that might well be another reason the BE isn’t interested in expanding...10% of $5-$10 is better than 8.5% of that amount...many things would change if GU was in a conference like the BE...BUT what benefit does the BE get from expansion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by seacatfan View Post
    Butler made back to back appearances in the Championship game as a member of the Horizon Conference. Since then they stepped up to the Atlantic 10 and then the reconfigured Big East. They haven't been past the Sweet 16 since they left the Horizon. The increase in competition really hasn't made Butler into a better basketball program.

    Xavier followed a similar path. Mid Continent, A-10, Big East. They've made Sweet 16's and Elite 8's all throughout their history. While they are frequently ranked in the top 10 now, they haven't kicked down the door to a Final 4 yet. I think X is overall stronger now since joining the Big East, but to think that automatically leads to more frequent deep runs in the Tourney is a fallacy.
    While I do see your point, it can't be overstated how big of an impact it was for Butler to lose Brad Stevens.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 229SintoZag View Post
    Very close?

    How soon we forget that it was just a few years ago that the Zags did not win, or tie, for the WCC championship, instead losing it to St. Mary's. It was the first time in something like a dozen years.

    But it did happen. Prevented the Zags from beating UCLA's record for most consecutive conference championships as I recall.
    Good point. I must have suppressed that memory.

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    "I think we're all Bozos on this bus."

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    the problem is this..without a division 1 football program the Zags conference options are limited. I think for the size school the program is doing just fine and I wouldn't change a thing. They play enough good competition through the year to get ready for March Madness...I believe they have equaled or exceeded their NCAA tourney seeding 8 of the last 9 years...no need to change!
    It's What You learn AFTER You Know It All That Counts

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    i'll throw my 2 cents in...

    i think the wcc limits the zags ceiling...basically as a direct result of recruiting, hard to get the best US guys to come

    however, i actually don't think the lack of competition hurts as much as some think (and as i used to think).

    the reason is this: as i've gained experience, i'm starting to realize the importance of being able to fine tune things and experiment as a season goes along...the wcc provides this while being in a conference like say the big 12 gives almost zero chance...even the best teams need to play at least a "b" game to win. zags schedule is almost perfect in a way...tough comp in the non-con to see where you stand and what you need to work on...the wcc to work on weaknesses and experiment, with a few games sprinkled in to test the results. the wcc also lets you rest up if necessary and even take a breath while trying to build up and peak for the stretch run of wcc tournament and march madness. almost like tennis and time spent between majors. it's a hard process to get right, but with the continuity at gonzaga once you have it figured out, it should be repeatable.

  13. #38
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    Watch how many bids the Big East gets, or just look at the number go Big East teams in the top 40 0r 50. Currently all 10 Big East are 110 or better in BPI, four are ranked in the top 25, six in the top 50. Big East incentives: a national conference, expanded tv markets, opportunity to reclaim their position as the #1 basketball conference in the nation, join the expansion trend before you're boxed out for quality programs that meet your high results. GU fits their profile: mostly relatively small, private schools who don't, and would lose money, playing football.

    In the WCC, Gonzaga must win tournament or finish in at very least, the top two to get a bid. Has worked for a lot of years, but not forever. In the Big East, no high school gyms that only come close to selling out for the Zags. In the Big East, could punch an annual dance ticket by finishing top-4 or 5. Gonzaga has become a premier basketball team. Playing in the NCAA tournament should mean more than going to Las Vegas. Anyone who wants to can go there anytime.

    Yeah, travel costs. Nearly all GU sports lose money, and some have huge expenses. Better league equals higher tv revenue, and could justify a game or two annually in the arena (given a decent win-win contract). Greater exposure for the university and the city, for the team and they players. Would require some adjustments to recruiting and strategy to match better opponents week after week. The recruiting adjustments may have already begun.

    I'd rather watch the Zags continue to dance annually by playing better ball in a top conference even if winning the conference were not a given, and in a down year, even fifth or sixth gets the ticket punched.

    Go Zags! Both this year and in the future.

  14. #39
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    the only realistic option would be basketball only in the pac12. but I think the WCC is still GU's best option. It's the bottom half of the conference that's just plain atrocious. for fun go to KenPom.com click on the conferences starting at the top of the list. Green is good, Red bad. That red is why the game against Portland was 64 of 66 on his FanMatch page. BYU was 62 and SMC 55. ESPN would surely carry more games and pay more for reasonable match ups. To me the answer to this problem is use KenPom or BPI to give a larger % to top 50 teams, then less and less for each 50 thereafter. 300 or worse gets none. scale it in over several years to give the bottom teams a chance to build up their programs. I think if SMC doesn't win a game against GU and loses 1 additional game, they will be left out of the tournament again. That costs the league money and gives it to a power 5 conference. Using the adj analytics GU should be a 2 seed and SMC a 5 seed. WCC needs to build it's reputation.

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    In the Butler example, note that they never made it past the sweet 16 before their two final 4 runs either. Their success before and after those two years is about equal. The coaching changes there have probably played a bigger role. They are certainly making more money now, though.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallaWallaZag View Post
    i'll throw my 2 cents in...

    i think the wcc limits the zags ceiling...basically as a direct result of recruiting, hard to get the best US guys to come

    however, i actually don't think the lack of competition hurts as much as some think (and as i used to think).

    the reason is this: as i've gained experience, i'm starting to realize the importance of being able to fine tune things and experiment as a season goes along...the wcc provides this while being in a conference like say the big 12 gives almost zero chance...even the best teams need to play at least a "b" game to win. zags schedule is almost perfect in a way...tough comp in the non-con to see where you stand and what you need to work on...the wcc to work on weaknesses and experiment, with a few games sprinkled in to test the results. the wcc also lets you rest up if necessary and even take a breath while trying to build up and peak for the stretch run of wcc tournament and march madness. almost like tennis and time spent between majors. it's a hard process to get right, but with the continuity at gonzaga once you have it figured out, it should be repeatable.
    Limits the zags ceiling to what, the National Championship game? I'm failing to see what the limitation is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adoptedzag View Post
    Limits the zags ceiling to what, the National Championship game? I'm failing to see what the limitation is.
    Maybe if we won, we wouldn't be having this discussion?

  18. #43
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    Love how when ppl disagree on here they one star it. Lol.
    Love the zags for life

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    Has the administration ever talked about adding a football team? I'm sure it would be difficult and would take a long time to build up, but I would think it's doable if a small school like Whitworth can have one. That would give us the option of at least going to a conference like the MWC, which would be an upgrade over the WCC.

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    Mountain West is the obvious answer. There are several very strong programs, and several others with a solid bball tradition. UNLV, UNR, SDSU, Boise, CSU, FSU.
    A definite step up in competition w/out all the extra travel. I'd bet they would change any bylaws to attract the Zags.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaZagFan View Post
    the problem is this..without a division 1 football program the Zags conference options are limited. I think for the size school the program is doing just fine and I wouldn't change a thing. They play enough good competition through the year to get ready for March Madness...I believe they have equaled or exceeded their NCAA tourney seeding 8 of the last 9 years...no need to change!
    I’d go to Zags football games
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    Oregon started a baseball program from scratch about a decade or so ago. Starting a football program from the ground up...that would be a serious undertaking. Scholarship limit for football is 85. You have to have some depth. I would think you would have to be out recruiting for 2-3 years before you could actually field a team. Tough sell for kids to come in and practice for a few years without being able to play games. Not to mention building a football stadium would be cost prohibitive. I'd say it's a pipe dream, not happening. Not that anyone associated w/ the school is actually talking about starting a football program are they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpn17 View Post
    While I do see your point, it can't be overstated how big of an impact it was for Butler to lose Brad Stevens.
    Fair enough. So their post season success was more due to a coach than conference affiliation. I'm sure they are bringing in different types of kids now than they were 10 years ago or whatever, but it doesn't seem like's it's had that dramatic of an effect for them.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by seacatfan View Post
    Oregon started a baseball program from scratch about a decade or so ago. Starting a football program from the ground up...that would be a serious undertaking. Scholarship limit for football is 85. You have to have some depth. I would think you would have to be out recruiting for 2-3 years before you could actually field a team. Tough sell for kids to come in and practice for a few years without being able to play games. Not to mention building a football stadium would be cost prohibitive. I'd say it's a pipe dream, not happening. Not that anyone associated w/ the school is actually talking about starting a football program are they?
    They could do Div AA like Montana and Eastern. Not sure the Big Sky would want them in, and don't think it would be an improvement over the WCC.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    I think that might well be another reason the BE isn’t interested in expanding...10% of $5-$10 is better than 8.5% of that amount...many things would change if GU was in a conference like the BE...BUT what benefit does the BE get from expansion?
    Big East expansion nets them another $100 million from their Fox contract.

    http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/D...-East-MWC.aspx

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