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Thread: The Gonzaga Men's Basketball Team IS NOT a professional team

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    I just wanted to get that out there. There are a fair amount of posters on this board who seem to have lost perspective that Gonzaga is a University and its sports teams are populated with young, student athletes who are brand new adults and going through what most of us went through when we were brand new adults.

    In addition to the difficulties that we all had to go through, the members of the mens basketball team also have to deal with the spotlight of being major celebrities in the campus and Spokane communities and minor celebrities every where else.

    There also is real pressure on these young men to perform well for the sake of the long established reputation of excellence for Gonzaga basketball, the coaches expectations, the fans expectations, their personal expectations and not to mention their future financial well being as professional athletes.

    Although I know they are treated well in terms of their creature comforts and get a small stipend of money to cover expenses, not to mention a very valuable education, they are not compensated commiserate with the revenue they helped to generate for Gonzaga and by extension dozens of other entities that benefit from Gonzaga Basketball being big time!

    So, the next time you go to post something that may be unkind to a specific player keep in perspective who they are. Very young adults who relative to their contribution aren't getting squat from you. As an Alum and a fan, I have enough joy from following this University and this team to fill a lifetime and hopefully I'm just a little past halfway. Gonzaga and the players don't owe me a damn thing and yet they keep on giving.

    God Bless
    As an unabashed bleeding heart liberal I think I’m well within my rights to say here publicly that your Monday sermon here really rubs me the wrong way. Give me a breK; I think these 18-22 year olds can handle our comments... if they even read any. You don’t give them much credit.
    It is their time....their team...I just get to watch. - Bartruff1

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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzagasaurusFlex View Post
    As an unabashed bleeding heart liberal I think I’m well within my rights to say here publicly that your Monday sermon here really rubs me the wrong way. Give me a breK; I think these 18-22 year olds can handle our comments... if they even read any. You don’t give them much credit.
    Flex, of course you’re within your rights, we all have the same rights. A sermon? Hardly. Enlighten me, bitte. Exactly what is accomplished by going totally negative on these young men who represent our university so well?

    For the past 15 years (for me), every season has been a wonderful journey. The Zags have created so many more opportunities to spend time with my kids and grandson. It really started with the Wyoming game, where I got into it with a burly Cowboys fan. My son still marvels at how I didn’t get my rear kicked...lol.

    Last summer was a defining moment, spending several days on campus during one of the basketball camps. After seeing how they responded to everyone, it was incredible. I love this team, and I’ll do my best to support them.

    Feel free to do what you want. I’m going to enjoy the journey for all its worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Well hells bells, let’s move the age to 22 to sign contracts, get married, drink beer, etc. The day I turned 18, my stepfather told me I could grab a beer from the fridge anytime I wanted. Before my 23rd birthday, I was a platoon leader for both missile platoons in my battery in Germany.

    My stepbrother was in Vietnam before his 18th birthday, and there were thousands of 18 year olds “experiencing life” , and death in too many cases on the battlefields in Europe about 75 years ago.

    Youth today IMO are being held to a lower standard when it comes to becoming an adult, getting most of the privileges but without the responsibility.

    Sorry, that’s just the way I feel.
    First, thank you and all those boys for your service. I think you’d have to admit however that they were just that though, boys. Did they have to grow up quickly, absolutely. That was a different time and place. I would agree this generation is softer. I don’t think I’m comfortable comparing college basketball to war however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cggonzaga View Post
    First, thank you and all those boys for your service. I think you’d have to admit however that they were just that though, boys. Did they have to grow up quickly, absolutely. That was a different time and place. I would agree this generation is softer. I don’t think I’m comfortable comparing college basketball to war however.
    No need to thank me, I always felt privileged to serve. I served during peacetime, so I was lucky. Appreciate your comments. Matriculating at Gonzaga set my life on a path to experiences I never could have imagined.

    I’ll always have f1d’s back, we both went through the ROTC program at GU. The 4 years of small unit infantry training really came in handy my first two years in Germany. We occasionally supported another unit with a 40 man platoon of soldiers who hadn’t had infantry training since boot camp. It was quite a sight : 40 soldiers with live ammunition, simulating recapture (from terrorists) of a bunker with nukes. Great memories! Lol

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    you're right, they are a high-level NCAA D1 team.

    they have professional/international scouts, analysts, $150K+ athletic scholarships, and media heads critiquing their every move -- on and off the court. They make the front page of ESPN articles, NY times, & ranked weekly in polls in the USA Today, & celebrity Coaches across the nation. Their sport earns billions upon billion of dollars, and guess what...

    They are certified adults, over the age of 18, and old enough to participate in society, be praised by it, along with be criticized by it.

    The OP shares a terrific message, but not entirely a fitting one. More applicable to my Niece's HS soccer or basketball team(s), as she is still a minor and lives with her Parents. Not quite earning her way through HS via athletics, if she were, well, people would be more critical of her achievements and/or struggles as well.

    In theory, the same message could be said about the 19 yr old "kids" declaring for the NBA or playing overseas, and that's just not the case. They're also young adults, earning and finding their way, yet they are critiqued by fans and fellows alike .

    The most I've been criticized my entire life was during my College Internship. I was only 19 or 20 at the time, yet received an opportunity 99% of classmates did not. I wish I would have had former1dog with me back then, to sit in meetings and defend me from my colleagues. I was treated as an adult, and rightfully so. A fellow employee gaining invaluable experience, and I wasn't even paid!
    “You’ve got to hit the Zag standard.”

    And if it happens, those rites of Autumn become the rites of Spring.

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    I appreciate the spirit of the thread. Negativity gets all dressed up on this little blog and calls itself “realism,” but the messages which always contain a kernel of cynicism and disdain tend to drive people away from what is only an alternative way to follow our team. Anyone with a room temperature IQ can deconstruct a position or argument. Finding fault or inadequacies is human nature, but that doesn’t mean you have to respond to the compulsion and share every single criticism. Have your opinions, but when nearly every post on every thread is an attempt to be critical or “real,” well, it just gets old.

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    In theory, the same message could be said about the 19 yr old "kids" declaring for the NBA or playing overseas, and that's just not the case. They're also young adults, earning and finding their way, yet they are critiqued by fans and fellows alike .
    And almost all of them have a parent, grandparent, older sibling or older cousin living with them those first couple of years?

    The most I've been criticized my entire life was during my College Internship. I was only 19 or 20 at the time, yet received an opportunity 99% of classmates did not. I wish I would have had former1dog with me back then, to sit in meetings and defend me from my colleagues. I was treated as an adult, and rightfully so. A fellow employee gaining invaluable experience, and I wasn't even paid!
    Sounds like a brutal internship, haha. Just curious during this non-paid internship, how’d you live? i.e housing, food, pay bills?

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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    On the other hand, Coach Few is a multi millionaire. I don't have a lot of criticism for the winningest active coach in college basketball, but IMO he is absolutely fair game in this forum. He gets paid (A LOT) to get it right. Thankfully he does get it right most of the time.

    Interestingly, though, it seems that we have it backwards on this forum a lot where we are "allowed" to be really critical of the players, but not so much for the coaches.
    This is absolutely true. He is paid extremely well for a choice he made as a profession.

    The other factor that I think we have to remember is he's a grown, fully-formed man.

    I was perhaps the single most immature kid ever to step on campus and I sure would've gotten eaten under the spotlight these guys play under. And though I'm certainly still need some formation, therer's no doubt at all that now 20 some odd years later, I'm in a much better position to take some criticism and say, "yeah, there's a point there. Perhaps I'll adjust the ...." or "Guy knows nothing." Shakes it off, goes fishing.

    That is a very important factor in the dynamic of leaving the kids personally alone, and yet critiquing FT shooting form, or shot selection, which I think IS fair game, since it's just basketball and stays on the court. They knew they signed up to play on TV and in front of people who care.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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    I look at our members here on GUboards who write or blog, and all those who read our crazy ideas, as family. A very big family, and maybe underlying it all a very large Catholic family. There are many Catholic families who had a fair amount of kids in them, and when we all got around the dinner table we argued all dinner long about anything and everything. We seldom thought alike, and mostly we didn't want to think or talk like dad. I will tell you one thing about my dad, he loved to debate, or some might call it argue, but by George if you didn't agree with somehting you better know what you're talking about. I look at us the same way. We are not THE ZAG players, but we are damn good fans. And in a way we are our own team. We are connected in a rather cool away. I love this board, or forum, and always have, and I really enjoy being a part of it. I'm kind of an "old fart" around here but I still enjoy it, and I appreciate everyone who thinks and argues differently than I do. To think that a big Catholic family is not going to criticize, argue and even fight at times, is just pure and simple, NOT CATHOLIC like. hahahah I doubt if very many of us write for the team, including coaches....I know I don't, I write for you and all who read this board. For me its a high level of entertainment. If you think that what we write affects the players or coaches it's okay with me. It's just part of the argument. As for me, I DON'T. In fact to think I could have an affect on the team by writing here is actually funny.

    I will add one more thing. I believe I do affect them as a fan. I am one of many thousands of fans who give my all every single game while watching TV. I cheer my ass off. I yelll and scream just as I would at the games if I was there. I often cuss my ass off, forgive me Father for I have sinned. I'm a great fan. My physical therapist is a beautiful fullblooded Zag fan and so is her husband and kids. I just ran into her a couple of months ago as I went back into physical therapy. We instantly connected as Zag grads/alums and we tell each other amazing stories about it all every week. She has made physical therapy such a great time for me. One thing we have in common, out kids watch the games, cheer and love Gonzaga because we have Zagness in our blood. We share this blood with hundreds of thousands.

    But here on the board it's different. I am a fan yes, but I am part of this family here writing for you. You are my team. And that doesn't mean I can't get mad. at you. Darn it. I got mad at my brothers and sisters and dad and mom all the time. Let's never be fake people. Let's be real. And let's accept our differences as something good. There's my Monday sermon. Dang. I thought I had given up long speeches for the good of the team.....I'm still sick hahahahaha God bless!!!

    Go Zags!!! Yes I got my exclamation points fixed. And we;re beginning to win. hahaha

    ps Thanks for a good thread Former1. Great posts have a tendency to bring out or love for disagreement and even argument. hahahah You and I certainly know all about that done't we, lol
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Thanks Reborn. Well said.

    Just like family we don't like others to criticize our family but by God I'm going scream at my brother till he admits he's wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    Thanks Reborn. Well said.

    Just like family we don't like others to criticize our family but by God I'm going scream at my brother till he admits he's wrong.
    ...or says “shove it”?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    ...or says “shove it”?
    ooooh nooooo...that’s when we both yell...”hold me back...hold me back”

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    ...or says “shove it”?
    Yes. I am certain that there are more...cordial ways of expressing one’s distaste.
    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
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    I'm glad my post has sparked a respectful debate.

    I'm willing to concede on the WE and US thing.

    Clarifying on my original posting, I pointed out that the team is not professional not to protect them from us, but to add perspective to our fan base and improve our forum. I'm relatively confident that the actual players are not concerned at all about this forum and what is written here. As part of this forum since its inception and of the previous forums, I am concerned and would like to see it go in a more positive direction.

    To the poster discussing their difficult internship, I would argue that being a part of a Division 1 sports team is at least as difficult and likely much more difficult. There are a ton of demands put upon these student athletes. My own experience as a student athlete taking 18 credits a semester while also handling my responsibilities as an ROTC scholarship recipient and holding a part time job was formative.

    Again, though, my intention is to call attention to how we conduct ourselves here in this forum. To appreciate the reality that these ARE NOT professional athletes. That they have other very important responsibilities that in the context of their age and experience can create difficulties in performing on the basketball court at the highest levels at all times. We should as a community be cognizant of that and temper our commentary appropriately, in my opinion.

    Reborn, I like your comparison of our forum to a large a Catholic family. I don't know if I have previously shared, but I'm one of 11 children raised in a Catholic family. I always joke that when my family gets together its a hilarious riot because we only have one thing in common which is a strong opinion and a willingness to share it!!

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    Oh Yeah, What I wrote about that is true, I know several families with 11 kids and they are close friends of mine. Mine was only 6 but five boys. At times we even had fist fights. And as we began adults my brothers were some of my best friends.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    I just wanted to get that out there. There are a fair amount of posters on this board who seem to have lost perspective that Gonzaga is a University and its sports teams are populated with young, student athletes who are brand new adults and going through what most of us went through when we were brand new adults.

    Very young adults who relative to their contribution aren't getting squat from you. As an Alum and a fan, I have enough joy from following this University and this team. Gonzaga and the players don't owe me a damn thing and yet they keep on giving.

    God Bless
    Great post and perspective! Like most fans, I invest my hopes and expectations. I usually get a great return, and always, a great ride.

    Keep going, Zags!

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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    On the other hand, Coach Few is a multi millionaire. I don't have a lot of criticism for the winningest active coach in college basketball, but IMO he is absolutely fair game in this forum. He gets paid (A LOT) to get it right. Thankfully he does get it right most of the time.

    Interestingly, though, it seems that we have it backwards on this forum a lot where we are "allowed" to be really critical of the players, but not so much for the coaches.
    I'm not sure what "allowed" means exactly. If Few gets criticized I would expect him to be defended in the vast majority of cases. That shouldn't make the attacker feel like a victim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kclubfounder View Post
    I'm not sure what "allowed" means exactly. If Few gets criticized I would expect him to be defended in the vast majority of cases. That shouldn't make the attacker feel like a victim.
    Allowed meaning that most posters engage in a spirited debate regarding the criticism of players and the community doesn't discourage it, but there is far less criticism of the coaching staff and when there is there is a much more significant push back community wide. That has been my observation anyway and it seems to be confirmed by your statement.

    That is a bit backward, in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    Allowed meaning that most posters engage in a spirited debate regarding the criticism of players and the community doesn't discourage it, but there is far less criticism of the coaching staff and when there is there is a much more significant push back community wide. That has been my observation anyway and it seems to be confirmed by your statement.

    That is a bit backward, in my opinion.
    "Confirmed by your statement". OK. I get it. But the fact that there are more defenders of the coach than an individual player is something that OBVIOUSLY will happen, so feeling victimized is silly. The coach has been around since before we were any good. Individual players will have their defenders for an array of reasons, but there won't be as many as there are for the coach. Go ahead and complain about whatever thing you want to complain about, but if it's against the coach expect your complaint to be put under a bigger microscope - for obvious reasons. It sure seems obvious to me, and I haven't defended a coach or player on this site in years. Anyway, GO ZAGS!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kclubfounder View Post
    "Confirmed by your statement". OK. I get it. But the fact that there are more defenders of the coach than an individual player is something that OBVIOUSLY will happen, so feeling victimized is silly. The coach has been around since before we were any good. Individual players will have their defenders for an array of reasons, but there won't be as many as there are for the coach. Go ahead and complain about whatever thing you want to complain about, but if it's against the coach expect your complaint to be put under a bigger microscope - for obvious reasons. It sure seems obvious to me, and I haven't defended a coach or player on this site in years. Anyway, GO ZAGS!!!!!!!

    Not to get to far into the weeds, but personally I don't feel victimized by anything written on the boards. I am driven by a sense of fairness and morality which makes me uncomfortable when student athletes are criticized in this forum as if they were professional athletes, which is the reason I started the thread, of course. It would be nice if folks realized that the holy grail of any athlete is a consistently high level of performance, but that very few achieve that goal and the ones that do are (you guessed it) professionals.

    As I wrote previously, I don't have much to criticize Coach Few about. He's fantastic. But, I am much more comfortable when he is criticized because he is being very well compensated for his efforts. He is the professional.

    Oh, and Go Zags!!

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    I look at our members here on GUboards who write or blog, and all those who read our crazy ideas, as family. A very big family, and maybe underlying it all a very large Catholic family. There are many Catholic families who had a fair amount of kids in them, and when we all got around the dinner table we argued all dinner long about anything and everything. We seldom thought alike, and mostly we didn't want to think or talk like dad. I will tell you one thing about my dad, he loved to debate, or some might call it argue, but by George if you didn't agree with somehting you better know what you're talking about. I look at us the same way. We are not THE ZAG players, but we are damn good fans. And in a way we are our own team. We are connected in a rather cool away. I love this board, or forum, and always have, and I really enjoy being a part of it. I'm kind of an "old fart" around here but I still enjoy it, and I appreciate everyone who thinks and argues differently than I do. To think that a big Catholic family is not going to criticize, argue and even fight at times, is just pure and simple, NOT CATHOLIC like. hahahah I doubt if very many of us write for the team, including coaches....I know I don't, I write for you and all who read this board. For me its a high level of entertainment. If you think that what we write affects the players or coaches it's okay with me. It's just part of the argument. As for me, I DON'T. In fact to think I could have an affect on the team by writing here is actually funny.

    I will add one more thing. I believe I do affect them as a fan. I am one of many thousands of fans who give my all every single game while watching TV. I cheer my ass off. I yelll and scream just as I would at the games if I was there. I often cuss my ass off, forgive me Father for I have sinned. I'm a great fan. My physical therapist is a beautiful fullblooded Zag fan and so is her husband and kids. I just ran into her a couple of months ago as I went back into physical therapy. We instantly connected as Zag grads/alums and we tell each other amazing stories about it all every week. She has made physical therapy such a great time for me. One thing we have in common, out kids watch the games, cheer and love Gonzaga because we have Zagness in our blood. We share this blood with hundreds of thousands.

    But here on the board it's different. I am a fan yes, but I am part of this family here writing for you. You are my team. And that doesn't mean I can't get mad. at you. Darn it. I got mad at my brothers and sisters and dad and mom all the time. Let's never be fake people. Let's be real. And let's accept our differences as something good. There's my Monday sermon. Dang. I thought I had given up long speeches for the good of the team.....I'm still sick hahahahaha God bless!!!

    Go Zags!!! Yes I got my exclamation points fixed. And we;re beginning to win. hahaha

    ps Thanks for a good thread Former1. Great posts have a tendency to bring out or love for disagreement and even argument. hahahah You and I certainly know all about that done't we, lol
    God bless you, Reborn. One of the best, heartfelt, true-to-the-core things I have ever read on this board. Thank you for sharing your perspective with us. Go Zags !
    Last edited by RenoZag; 01-10-2018 at 09:13 PM.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Youth today IMO are being held to a lower standard when it comes to becoming an adult, getting most of the privileges but without the responsibility.
    I agree with this sentiment. Society as a whole has acted like 21 is the new 18. It's been trending for generations---my grandparents were 18 and 16 when they married and a year later had their first child. Society expected them to be adults and they acted like they were. Now, we say 19 or 20 year olds are just kids are they need to be given a break and guess what, they follow course.

    BUT, I don't see this as relevant to F1Dog's post. My thought is posters' comments on here need to be polite and civil to everyone--to each other, the players, the coaches, etc. Regardless of the fact if the person is 18 or 35--a paid player or some guy that may be sitting next to me at a game in the future. Because, well, I think that is just the right thing to do.

    Anyway, I don't get on here much anymore but nice to this post from F1Dog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagceo View Post
    Thanks Reborn. Well said.

    Just like family we don't like others to criticize our family but by God I'm going scream at my brother till he admits he's wrong.
    hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaah ahhhhh great post. thanks for the really good laugh haha ohhhhh So true.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Nice time to revisit this thread.

    It bugs the #### out of me when, after a win, we are mostly negative on this forum because we didn't win by enough points, we didn't win with enough style points.

    Right now, there are simultaneous threads on this forum praising how USD's program is on the rise and criticizing our VICTORY over that program!!

    I think that if you want cookie cutter performances out of our student athletes where they are always on their game, never make a mistake, always have a great shooting night, etcetera, you might consider getting footage of the Michael Jordan led Bulls or something along those lines. You're never going to be a happy with a college basketball team.

    Look around college basketball. Good teams play poorly. More often than not, when good teams play poorly they lose. Well, Gonzaga is 26-4... They have been inconsistent in most categories except the important one, winning!

    Go Zags!

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    Quote Originally Posted by former1dog View Post
    Nice time to revisit this thread.

    It bugs the #### out of me when, after a win, we are mostly negative on this forum because we didn't win by enough points, we didn't win with enough style points.

    Right now, there are simultaneous threads on this forum praising how USD's program is on the rise and criticizing our VICTORY over that program!!

    I think that if you want cookie cutter performances out of our student athletes where they are always on their game, never make a mistake, always have a great shooting night, etcetera, you might consider getting footage of the Michael Jordan led Bulls or something along those lines. You're never going to be a happy with a college basketball team.

    Look around college basketball. Good teams play poorly. More often than not, when good teams play poorly they lose. Well, Gonzaga is 26-4... They have been inconsistent in most categories except the important one, winning!

    Go Zags!
    100% agree!

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