It's time for conference play to start. What do you think the Zags so far?

[MileHigh]

. I'm not convinced that they like to play with each other

Well, this is one thing that I can say is 100% incorrect. While last years team was close knit, this years team is even more so. These kids love each other, love playing for one another, and look at each other as brothers. I have seen it, and heard it, up close and personal. As for certain players not liking their roles, that is a constant on just about every team at every level. Back ups want to start, bench warmers want to play....but in terms of players not liking their role in terms of their touches, shots, etc, I dont see that at all.

[MDABE80]

Inconsistent results? 10-3 with free throw away from 11-2 and a few normally made shots away from 12-1.....pretty consistent winning from my perspective

It's ok to agree to disagree....roles ( especially when major versus support) space movement, learning strengths and weakness as well as tendencies all are critical components of a smooth functioning offense. And takes time to learn and only occurs from runtime

But it's odd first sentence you say it's not because of youth then 3 paragraph you say because of youth defense struggling

I guess we shall see if we see improvement on both sides of the court

No what I said was "I don't know" about the youth factor. 1st line, 1st para. The second reference is about careless defense. It seem that you're not seeing that we look awful even when when we win games. The last few were quite telling. If you only care about victories, you're in good shape with your statements above. I don't and here's why: the quality of play sucks now and if not improved, we'll be lucky to get into the tournament and if we do, we'll be gone in the first weekend like most pretenders. Do you not think people across the country are ignoring our play? This is not how the Zags continue their legend.

SO yes, I'm standing by what I wrote. Things need to be changed.......for the better. The easiest thing to change ( since the offensive is much harder to alter given our situation) is the defense. We need to start playing hard defense. And why not? We've got big kids, we've got superior athletes with good foot speed and lateral movement. So where are we lacking? Is it coaching? I doubt it even though it's obvious nobody's let the kids know they play D or they don't play. Alternatively, is it the players' will to get in the trenches and actually focus on D? One of the two....no other choices. I'm thinking it's both. A joint effort might help....i. e. coaches enforce and the kids comply. Either of those is ignored and we're in for a long season.

We've got 4 kids Josh, Silas, Tillie and J3 who have lots of experience. True, we' had different leaders in the past. Each kid unto himself needs to know it's on them. Coaches need to let em know that too. Of course, a non invite or a quick out isn't the worst thing to ever happen to us. I'd at least like our 20 season consecutive invites continue......\

So let face some things. Josh is Josh and that ok for most. What's chewable is the defense. To that end, I'd get Larsen (uninjured version) in the middle and get him to do what he does ie block shots, clog up the middle to stop unhindered drives and put some points up. It's worked in the past and it should work again. Right now that key is wide open to everyone.
And once again, I'm not arguing with anyone. It's just how I see it.

[Hoopaholic]

No what I said was "I don't know" about the youth factor. 1st line, 1st para. The second reference is about careless defense. It seem that you're not seeing that we look awful even when when we win games. The last few were quite telling. If you only care about victories, you're in good shape with your statements above. I don't and here's why: the quality of play sucks now and if not improved, we'll be lucky to get into the tournament and if we do, we'll be gone in the first weekend like most pretenders. Do you not think people across the country are ignoring our play? This is not how the Zags continue their legend.

SO yes, I'm standing by what I wrote. Things need to be changed.......for the better. The easiest thing to change ( since the offensive is much harder to alter given our situation) is the defense. We need to start playing hard defense. And why not? We've got big kids, we've got superior athletes with good foot speed and lateral movement. So where are we lacking? Is it coaching? I doubt it even though it's obvious nobody's let the kids know they play D or they don't play. Alternatively, is it the players' will to get in the trenches and actually focus on D? One of the two....no other choices. I'm thinking it's both. A joint effort might help....i. e. coaches enforce and the kids comply. Either of those is ignored and we're in for a long season.

We've got 4 kids Josh, Silas, Tillie and J3 who have lots of experience. True, we' had different leaders in the past. Each kid unto himself needs to know it's on them. Coaches need to let em know that too. Of course, a non invite or a quick out isn't the worst thing to ever happen to us. I'd at least like our 20 season consecutive invites continue......\

So let face some things. Josh is Josh and that ok for most. What's chewable is the defense. To that end, I'd get Larsen (uninjured version) in the middle and get him to do what he does ie block shots, clog up the middle to stop unhindered drives and put some points up. It's worked in the past and it should work again. Right now that key is wide open to everyone.
And once again, I'm not arguing with anyone. It's just how I see it.

Agree with the need to improve on the defensive end in particular closeouts, help angle and on ball dribble drive defense

Disagree with offense as we are 8 best in nation and almost every statistical category is up save turnovers

[GrizZAG]

Ok, going way out there but I think this particular team could beat any team in the country on the right night. That is a vote of confidence that we have the goods but it isn't quite gelling of late and a couple key components are still dealing a bit with injury. My biggest beef is our passing on the perimeter and not taking care of the damn ball. We are also passing up shots from outside too often. Not enough inside out game IMO.

[Reborn]

Well, this is one thing that I can say is 100% incorrect. While last years team was close knit, this years team is even more so. These kids love each other, love playing for one another, and look at each other as brothers. I have seen it, and heard it, up close and personal. As for certain players not liking their roles, that is a constant on just about every team at every level. Back ups want to start, bench warmers want to play....but in terms of players not liking their role in terms of their touches, shots, etc, I dont see that at all.

I'm curious. Honestly. What do you see? Have you been watching how players screen for each other? Or have you seen how they help out on defense? Explain this "close nit" group to me, especially as they are playing on the court?

[MDABE80]

Agree with the need to improve on the defensive end in particular closeouts, help angle and on ball dribble drive defense

Disagree with offense as we are 8 best in nation and almost every statistical category is up save turnovers

Offense is not the problem.........if you only count points. Other items matter though..........

[MDABE80]

I'm curious. Honestly. What do you see? Have you been watching how players screen for each other? Or have you seen how they help out on defense? Explain this "close nit" group to me, especially as they are playing on the court?

800 miles away as the crow flies Reborn. He really knows little. Just a talker.
Not worth your time.

[bballbeachbum]

offense is a problem to my eyes because there is nothing to consistently go to, especially inside, to control tempo and force the D to adjust. instead looks like plenty of teams the Zags have played have dictated tempo with their D when we get the ball into the post, the opposite effect of what's desired; the hi low has seemed to get better results but I don't have the data. But neither JIII nor KT, the guys Few has used down there and gone to, have been able to prove they can deliver there as a consistent threat.
And the ball gets delivered there plenty, and on time and in their spots, plenty. That has not been the issue imo, it's once the ball is in their hands down there they aren't the scoring/passing threats to run the offense the Zags are used to. Larsen has been tried and shown better imo.

Anyway, the D isn't great but evolving to learn how to play without strong rim protection. Larsen looks good when in there but he's in sparingly, and JIII and KT do spectacular things from time to time around the rim on D but as has been discussed ad nauseum, they are not true rim protectors. Josh, Silas both stay in front of their man and fight well over screens; seems to me teams go after Zach, JIII and KT off the bounce from the perimeter which is one of the weaknesses of the switching D as other teams can look to set up the matchups they want: see North Dakota for example, not the only example.

as for effort and calling players out for that, I haven't seen what you're talking about but that seems a popular position right now for many here. Have I seen nerves, inexperience, and terrible plays but also resiliency and battling and fighting back...yes.

sorry, but the up and down play is exactly what I expected after losing so much from last year and having all these new faces have to be key contributors and, mostly, the huge changes inside leading to fundamental changes in the O and D this team hasn't seen in many years.

I think the process is fine if Larsen can play significant minutes in the big games allowing the front line to all play the positions they excel at so opposing defenses can't focus so hard on stopping Josh

[cggonzaga]

800 miles away as the crow flies Reborn. He really knows little. Just a talker.
Not worth your time.

boy if that isn’t calling the kettle black! I’ll go with somebody that actually knows something on this matter rather than somebody that kisses the players backsides in person but then comes here and rips them.

Didn’t understand your “chemistry” complaint earlier reborn. Thought you were out of bounds there since it was purely conjecture and there hasn’t been rumors or anything to back it up in the least. Not feeling well lately? Taking jazz and abe grumpy old man classes on the side? You used to be positive. You have every right to your opinions but they’re just coming across angry lately.

[Reborn]

800 miles away as the crow flies Reborn. He really knows little. Just a talker.
Not worth your time.

thanks

[MontanaCoyote]

No what I said was "I don't know" about the youth factor. 1st line, 1st para. The second reference is about careless defense. It seem that you're not seeing that we look awful even when when we win games. The last few were quite telling. If you only care about victories, you're in good shape with your statements above. I don't and here's why: the quality of play sucks now and if not improved, we'll be lucky to get into the tournament and if we do, we'll be gone in the first weekend like most pretenders. Do you not think people across the country are ignoring our play? This is not how the Zags continue their legend.

SO yes, I'm standing by what I wrote. Things need to be changed.......for the better. The easiest thing to change ( since the offensive is much harder to alter given our situation) is the defense. We need to start playing hard defense. And why not? We've got big kids, we've got superior athletes with good foot speed and lateral movement. So where are we lacking? Is it coaching? I doubt it even though it's obvious nobody's let the kids know they play D or they don't play. Alternatively, is it the players' will to get in the trenches and actually focus on D? One of the two....no other choices. I'm thinking it's both. A joint effort might help....i. e. coaches enforce and the kids comply. Either of those is ignored and we're in for a long season.

We've got 4 kids Josh, Silas, Tillie and J3 who have lots of experience. True, we' had different leaders in the past. Each kid unto himself needs to know it's on them. Coaches need to let em know that too. Of course, a non invite or a quick out isn't the worst thing to ever happen to us. I'd at least like our 20 season consecutive invites continue......\

So let face some things. Josh is Josh and that ok for most. What's chewable is the defense. To that end, I'd get Larsen (uninjured version) in the middle and get him to do what he does ie block shots, clog up the middle to stop unhindered drives and put some points up. It's worked in the past and it should work again. Right now that key is wide open to everyone.
And once again, I'm not arguing with anyone. It's just how I see it.

Last full paragraph is key, along with floor disipline....playing under control.

[Reborn]

boy if that isn’t calling the kettle black! I’ll go with somebody that actually knows something on this matter rather than somebody that kisses the players backsides in person but then comes here and rips them.

Didn’t understand your “chemistry” complaint earlier reborn. Thought you were out of bounds there since it was purely conjecture and there hasn’t been rumors or anything to back it up in the least. Not feeling well lately? Taking jazz and abe grumpy old man classes on the side? You used to be positive. You have every right to your opinions but they’re just coming across angry lately.

I have been on this forum for a long time, and believe me I have not always been positive. Mostly though, I have been positive about the teams. I am still positive, believe it or not. But mostly, I try to be honest with what I see, and I do see chemistry problems. BIG TIME. Chemistry isn't all about how players feel about others. It can be that. But it is mostly how I group of players play together on the court, and these guys really do not have fluidity. They are not fluid. When they pass the ball They often have no idea where the guy whom they are passing to is going. No idea. How can you or anyone watch this mess and see positive chemistry. Did you see last years team? That was team chemistry. And it began with Karnowski and NWG. Last year we had leaders.

I do believe the Zags will turn it around. But in the meantime I am not going to pretend that I see something that I don't. That's being FAKE. I see positives, and if you read the posts I've typed you'll see I think Norvell is playing really well, and I think Larsen is playing great. This team may be more injured than I have been aware of. If that's the excuse, then I understand that. There just aren't the players to put the starters on the bench. Few did that for one game and it was definitely the best game Tillie played, and JW3 quite well with 15 and 15. But obviously, he didn't leave them there long enough because in the very next game they go right back to their old ways. I have seen a change in JW3 and I believe we will begin to see the player we hoped to see now. I think he's getting it. On the other hand I see no change taking place in Tillie, Perkins and Melson. If that's being criticle, I accept it. I hope they will follow JW3 and begin to show leadership and class.

[MileHigh]

I'm curious. Honestly. What do you see? Have you been watching how players screen for each other? Or have you seen how they help out on defense? Explain this "close nit" group to me, especially as they are playing on the court?

It is based on spending a good bit of time over the last four years with the players (and their parents) off the court and away from the coaches. Talking with the players individually and when they are in a group you can see how close they are. To a man, each says they love their teammates and play for their teamates. Josh is a real honest kid and when he tells me this is the closest team he has played on at Gonzaga I believe him.
In terms of how their closeness manifests itself on the court, I see a bunch of kids trying to figure out their exact roles, but I don’t see a chemistry issue.

[MDABE80]

Not to worry Reborn. FAQ is just another who thinks everything is just dandy.
It isn't but when a guy chirps incessantly. Attributes things with no basis. It's like watching the CNN basketball variant.
I'm waiting for St Mary's. I hope we win the rest of the games. Consistency is the mark of a champion ...not to be forgotten but we'll see how it goes.

[MileHigh]

800 miles away as the crow flies Reborn. He really knows little. Just a talker.
Not worth your time.

Haha....yep, 800 miles away and I promise I know exponentially more about what is going on with the team than you do. Between regular convos with players, their parents, and Gonzaga coaching staff we are pretty plugged in here in the Mile High City..lol