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Thread: Gonzaga vs Villanova postgame thoughts/analysis

  1. #1
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    Default Gonzaga vs Villanova postgame thoughts/analysis

    Not trying to steal anyoneís thunder by starting this thread, I just need to vent:

    Zags lack an on-court leader to calm guys down, make the right plays, stop the frantic play that resulted in so many turnovers.

    JWIII is trying too hard and isnít being helped by the coaches enough. I seriously think Larsen needs to start so JWIII can play his more natural power forward spot. Tillie isnít assertive enough to be the star, despite being talented enough. Let him play super sub role and get starters minutes.

    As others shared in game thread, it really looked like Zags never believed they could win.
    It is their time....their team...I just get to watch. - Bartruff1

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    It's one game, at least we didn't lose to BYU at home, a team like that could never make it to the National Championship game.

    Learn some lessons and move on, lots of season yet to play.

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    Default Was a t the game

    Quote Originally Posted by GonzagasaurusFlex View Post
    Not trying to steal anyoneís thunder by starting this thread, I just need to vent:

    Zags lack an on-court leader to calm guys down, make the right plays, stop the frantic play that resulted in so many turnovers.

    JWIII is trying too hard and isnít being helped by the coaches enough. I seriously think Larsen needs to start so JWIII can play his more natural power forward spot. Tillie isnít assertive enough to be the star, despite being talented enough. Let him play super sub role and get starters minutes.

    As others shared in game thread, it really looked like Zags never believed they could win.
    It wasn't even close. They dominated us and made us look bad. Sorry but that's the truth. Bright spots Larsen big time and Norvelle. The rest played terribly especially JWIII. Glad not to see him in. Larsen was way way better.

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    Really could have used NWG in this one. Turnovers killed us and just couldn’t keep pace with the physicality of Nova. They dictated the pace of the game. Chalk it up as a bad game. However, this game along with a Texas debacle has me thinking there are things that need to be fixed if GU is going to get past the elite teams.

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    Jonathan Williams with 5 fouls and 5 points ..... It was a hard game to watch. Zags fouled 22 times and Nova 21 times. There were some good plays here and there but ... with the Zags having 18 turnovers. Not a good game for the Zags.

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    Zags lost to a better team that also played better. It’s been a long time since any team did this to Gonzaga.

    Just because this team isn’t as good as last year’s team it shouldn’t stop us from enjoying the season.

    Not sure what else to say, move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GonzagasaurusFlex View Post
    As others shared in game thread, it really looked like Zags never believed they could win.
    I made a comment along those lines in the game thread, but I was responding to another post talking about a game @ MSG vs. Duke from years gone by. Not sure about not believing they could win tonight, but they sure weren't focused and sharp, with all those early TO's.

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    I am very tempted to start Larsen over JWIII as well....except that the next game is a road game, and Larsen has never played a D-1 road game before. This will be the toughest road environment GU will play in all year. JWIII is pressing to much, and he is turning the ball over way, way, way too much. As are the guards. It would nice to hit the reset button and have JWIII come off the pine for one game, but I am not sure they can afford it. If they were playing UW at home, maybe.

    I realize Norvell Jr. is shooting out of his mind right now, but this team DESPERATELY needs Corey Kispert back. He wouldn't have won the game tonight, be he's one of the two toughest players GU has, and he is a way better all around player than anyone who is coming off the bench. The NBA scouts can think what they want, but as Matt Norlander says, Rui is severely lacking on defense, and as Few says, he has yet to prove he can play effectively in a halfcourt grinding game.

    This team doesn't have much depth. As Few says, it's one of the big differences between this year's team and last year's team. In order for Gonzaga to be, say, a sweet 16 caliber team, it needs to have all hands on deck.

    Villanova is clearly a different caliber of team than GU, but it really has more to do with basketball IQ, toughness, commitment to all out defense, good leadership and many other things that GU is just lacking right now.

    Sunday night is really going to be tough. If GU turns the ball over like they did tonight, it will ignite the Hec Ed crowd to levels of loudness that will cause the roof to come off.

    And please....Gonzaga is not in any threat of missing the NCAA tournament right now. I remember a #3 seeded GU team that got absolutely thrashed by Illinois. But they need to get Corey back and sure up this turnover problem. And toughen the defense as well. And let no one else get hurt.

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    Coming into this season, I thought that Norvell would be our best offensive guard by mid-season. He looked very raw during some of the early games, but he is starting to figure out how to compete at this level. We need him.

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    Zags took themselves out of this game early and often. Can’t be that sloppy with the basketball especially when you aren’t hitting the boards with force. They played better in the second, but could never quite get out of the hole they dug themselves. Hard to pin this on any one guy since nobody played that great when it mattered. Norvell can ball on offense, but does it outside the flow of the system. This team needs work across the board. Even with Kispert, this is still a loss by high single digits.

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    At this level, Norvell shines. Only he can play with what he has against such a team.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    I am very tempted to start Larsen over JWIII as well....except that the next game is a road game, and Larsen has never played a D-1 road game before. This will be the toughest road environment GU will play in all year. JWIII is pressing to much, and he is turning the ball over way, way, way too much. As are the guards. It would nice to hit the reset button and have JWIII come off the pine for one game, but I am not sure they can afford it. If they were playing UW at home, maybe.

    I realize Norvell Jr. is shooting out of his mind right now, but this team DESPERATELY needs Corey Kispert back. He wouldn't have won the game tonight, be he's one of the two toughest players GU has, and he is a way better all around player than anyone who is coming off the bench. The NBA scouts can think what they want, but as Matt Norlander says, Rui is severely lacking on defense, and as Few says, he has yet to prove he can play effectively in a halfcourt grinding game.

    This team doesn't have much depth. As Few says, it's one of the big differences between this year's team and last year's team. In order for Gonzaga to be, say, a sweet 16 caliber team, it needs to have all hands on deck.

    Villanova is clearly a different caliber of team than GU, but it really has more to do with basketball IQ, toughness, commitment to all out defense, good leadership and many other things that GU is just lacking right now.

    Sunday night is really going to be tough. If GU turns the ball over like they did tonight, it will ignite the Hec Ed crowd to levels of loudness that will cause the roof to come off.

    And please....Gonzaga is not in any threat of missing the NCAA tournament right now. I remember a #3 seeded GU team that got absolutely thrashed by Illinois. But they need to get Corey back and sure up this turnover problem. And toughen the defense as well. And let no one else get hurt.
    A great and thoughtful analysis, as usual, CDC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Centre Mad Man View Post
    Coming into this season, I thought that Norvell would be our best offensive guard by mid-season. He looked very raw during some of the early games, but he is starting to figure out how to compete at this level. We need him.
    Except there are two sides to the game of basketball. Needs to focus on defensive issues
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23dpg View Post
    Zags lost to a better team that also played better. It’s been a long time since any team did this to Gonzaga.

    Just because this team isn’t as good as last year’s team it shouldn’t stop us from enjoying the season.

    Not sure what else to say, move on.

    Agree
    Not sure it was ever realistic to think we were ready for that polished of an athletic team IMO. J3 hasn't been the force we expected but I for one am very encouraged this team will be incredibly good going into season's end. We now know Larson, Norvell and Kispert are future strong assets. Our core guys in Josh, Melson, Tillie are solid. Like Creighton, Villi played lock down defense on Perkins, so he struggled again. Hand it to Villanova, they played superior defense, shot the 3 with poise and had patience to get off the right shot over and over. We looked rather dis-conbuberated out there tonight at times. Is that a word? LOL
    Hats off to Villanova, they were really good tonight. Back to what 23 dog said....enjoy the ride.

    RE: Perkins lousy lay in move: Playing back that series it looked like he was watching over his shoulder and wanting to make a pass to Jones over his shoulder rather than go to the bucket, but Jones didn't get there and Josh was caught with indecisiveness at the bucket. He was embarrassed but that's how I saw it. I will look again I may have missed the rolled ankle some mentioned.
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    Nova had better players and the Zags were outhustled and outsmarted.
    Birddog

    Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birddog View Post



    Nova had better players and the Zags were outhustled and outsmarted.
    Agree with two of the three

    Lots of tape for the young ones to learn from. It is first week f December and
    Many of these kids still learning roles expectations intensity and detail
    Basketball...The Toy Department of Life

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    I don't know about rolling his ankle but something definitely happened, stumbled or his foot got caught, something. Probably due to indecision or hearing footsteps behind him.

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    I also very much agree with a previous poster that this team lacks leadership. Josh, Silas and JWIII are all too quiet. Probably the best innate leader in the whole bunch is Corey Kispert, but with the exception of transcendent talents like Carmelo, it is ideal that your leader(s) be upperclassmen like Nigel and Karnowski. That is the one major issue with Duke right now. I asked a basketball analyst today why is Duke, despite all their talent, messing around with these 18 point wins vs. teams like South Dakota? The #1 thing I think about Duke, outside of Coach K, is their traditional ability to absolutely trash guarantee opponents. The Duke norm is to beat low majors by 50 pts.. One of the issues with this year's Duke bunch is that they have no leader. Who is the guy who is supposed to be their leader? Grayson Allen. In other words, they have no leader, but their talent is carrying them through right now.

    Unfortunately, leadership has to come forward naturally. Coaches can't force players to be leaders. They can only encourage them.

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    I thought Josh was going to pass the ball back for a dunk..... Melson played well....as usual... Nova controlled the tempo and never let Gonzaga get comfortable....they are very good and will get better...and so will Gonzaga, Norvell is not afraid to score......

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    Check out this boxscore, it's kinda cryptic.
    http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...meId=400986882
    Birddog

    Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

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    Rui, how do you play without your best skill.
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    The game might have been different if Nova had any pressure on them. The Zags played tight and the other guys were comfortably hitting 3s all night, making 10 and shooting 48%. GU was able to score on them when they weren't dribbling the ball off their feet. And that was without JW3, who is supposed to be the go-to post scorer. Larsen looked really good and his size down low was much needed. It was good to see Perkins taking the ball to the hole (I'm going to try to erase that would-be lay-up turned transient ischemic attack of a pass to Jones). Tillie wilted a bit when we needed him.

    It's alright to lay an egg. This win would have been nice but is not a deal breaker on a good season.

    ETA: As bad as this was, Villanova is a team that the Zags can beat. Considering that Villanova is an Elite 8 quality team, this bodes well for the Zags.

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    I was excited for this game but not looking forward to this game. The Florida game was one thing but the Texas game was another. Outside of first 5 minutes, hard to understand this team.

    If you are opposing team, how do you not put more pressure on this team to bring it up the court (Full Court, 3/4 Press, Half Court Trap, etc.)? I would do this every time. Also the way GU defends the 3 ball, this might be an option for them as well.

    Was the team ill-prepared for any kind of pressure? Any play that beat pressure was a crazy 20+ yard pass with a very nice reception but nothing in the flow of the game to matter.

    Sweet jesus almost a 50 piece from 3 pt land?! C'mon guys. The worst part was seeing GU pack the zone and lose O-boards due to long rebounds.

    The rest of the way won't anywhere near resemble a Nova team. A lot of work to do but plenty of time.
    IF YOU WANT A THING DONE WELL, DO IT YOURSELF. -NAPOLEON BONAPARTE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoopaholic View Post
    Agree with two of the three

    Lots of tape for the young ones to learn from. It is first week f December and
    Many of these kids still learning roles expectations intensity and detail
    Lots of tape is right.

    Nova has to be the most fundamentally solid team I've seen play this year. They do so many things well....this wasn't the Zags having a bad game...this was just a victory by the superior team. I really think this is a good loss....The film of this game needs to mandatory viewing at practice for the forseeable future. The Zags can pick up some nice pointers and make a nice deep run this year.


    Props to Larsen...his size clearly bothered Nova.....and Zack Norvell's fearless play. JW3 is still the starter...but Larsen needs to get fully up to speed by March.

    Props to Jay Wright....that is a dam disciplined team right there...they might not win it all...but nobody plays with the IQ they do. They are gonna school a bunch of foes this year. Hopefully they are nowhere near our bracket come March.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim77 View Post
    Lots of tape is right.

    Nova has to be the most fundamentally solid team I've seen play this year. They do so many things well....this wasn't the Zags having a bad game...this was just a victory by the superior team. I really think this is a good loss....The film of this game needs to mandatory viewing at practice for the forseeable future. The Zags can pick up some nice pointers and make a nice deep run this year.


    Props to Larsen...his size clearly bothered Nova.....and Zack Norvell's fearless play. JW3 is still the starter...but Larsen needs to get fully up to speed by March.

    Props to Jay Wright....that is a dam disciplined team right there...they might not win it all...but nobody plays with the IQ they do. They are gonna school a bunch of foes this year. Hopefully they are nowhere near our bracket come March.
    Respectfully disagree with every single point you are attempting to make. The Zags did not play well whatsoever. If you witnessed any effort to date, you could clearly see there was no offensive rhythm and a lot of missed opportunities. I think Nova just took what the Zags gave them but a solid effort similar to the PK80 game vs Florida, would have made the game real close if not outright in GU's favor. There was no post presence by Nova and GU should have sought the advantage there but it wasn't well connected. The 3 pt defense or lack thereof once again betrayed them. Hard to hear me utter it but the refs helped out GU quite a bit tonight I believe and if they played like this against Texas or Creighton, they would have more losses.

    Let's stop pretending this is the same team as last year but a different team with potentially different strengths. This team will force tempo regardless apparently whether it benefits them or not. One upside is the future is bright for Norvell Jr. He has a nose for the offensive side of things and it will only get better.
    IF YOU WANT A THING DONE WELL, DO IT YOURSELF. -NAPOLEON BONAPARTE

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