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Thread: Zags vs Cougs

  1. #51
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  2. #52
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    Barta got injured when the player she was defending, got the ball behind her on a pass at the basket, and Barta bunny hopped and came down wrong on her left foot when she kind of tangled her foot up on the WSU player from behind. Good news she was not jumping high up and coming down hard on her foot. Did not see any over exaggerated twisting motion. Those are all good signs hopefully. Then again just speculating and remaining hopeful (Power of positive thinking right?)

    Would definitely not expect to see Barta play Saturday. Even if its a sprain needs to heal.
    Last edited by ZAGS ATTACK BASKET; 12-06-2017 at 11:44 PM.

  3. #53
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    Wow, those stats. Zags w/ 26 turnovers and Cougs had almost 30 more shot attempts than GU did. It shouldn't have been possible for the Zags to win, yet they did. Strange game.

  4. #54
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    Here are the write-ups for the Lady Zags vs Lady Cougs game tonight:

    GoCougs: http://www.wsucougars.com/news/2017/...o-gonzaga.aspx

    GoZags: http://www.gozags.com/sports/w-baskb...120617aaa.html

    Spokesman-Review: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...ington-state-/

    WSU Coach had some very nice comments in her post game interview about both the Zags and Jill Barta. Get to the post game interviews from the WSU game write-up summary.

    ZagDad

  5. #55
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    my take on this game....

    good showing by Zag fans...two buses and many people drove themselves down...WSU had some fans but they scheduled poorly...their mens team played over in Moscow...

    I have a problem with the Jumbo screen because it did not offer many stats at all....could never tell who had points, who had fouls...there was a tiny little screen showing how many time outs and how many team fouls...there was a small screen showing rebounds, steals, but not who....mostly interested in points and fouls....if you're going to have a big screen , keep the fans informed, darn it...

    the game itself....not looking at stats or numbers or any of that..just my observations in general...

    yes, it was sloppy...yes we had so many turnovers...yes, we had a very small number of assists...although we outrebounded the first half at sometime they equaled or maybe surpassed us...it was hard to keep track of things at the game...

    but this team STUCK TOGETHER....when Jill went down, I sensed the team was deflated..they had two times down the court and I don't recall they scored at all....

    I thought to myself...."they don't know what to do"..

    amazingly though, they pulled themselves together...

    they got some stops and got some timely points...

    they suffered thru an inconsistent reffing crew....

    of course, Zee, Jesse, and Chandler were outstanding....but everybody pitched in...

    the Wirths....they may not make big numbers but I have to tell you all they kept us in that game...they held their serve so to speak...they did what they had to do, even if it was to be place keepers....and when Jen was fouled out, Leeann came right in.......these are the kinds of games where you see heart....big hearts....

    these games build confidence...

    so the heck with the turnovers....we won the dang thing....and the Cougs shot poorly but for once maybe we can say that we defended well when we needed to....

    Congratulations team...!

    Jill....she did come back on the court...someone said her father was there and went into the locker room....lets hope and pray she's got a minor injury.....sees to me that she would have been put on crutches right away but that didn't happen....maybe a good sign...prayers for Jill...she's been a warrior for us...

    I did not see Louise play but I'll check the replay tomorrow...

    thank God we got past this game.....

  6. #56
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    Hope JB is doing well and her injury is minor and the time off the court will be minimal. If she was going to have an injury, tonight's game or Saturday's game would have been the game for it. UNLV Saturday, then a couple of creampuffs the following week and then a week off before conference schedule begins. So Jill could have most of 3 weeks off before conference schedule starts. Hope the injury is nothing serious.

    SeaCat asked in his comments, now that JB was out where were the Zags going to get their points from? The girls did a great job pulling together as a team and working as a team as Sylean noted above. WSU coach June Daugherty had nothing but good things to say about the Lady Zags and JB. She was impressed how the Lady Zags came together after their leader went down and found a way to win. She said her own team could learn from how GU coped with the adversity.

    Good things - Good shooting away from the Kennel for the first time this year. Team came together after JB went down and found a way to win. It was a victory, a victory against a power 6 school and a victory away from the Kennel. All good things. JT flexed her muscle under the boards. She put up with nothing from the cougs. Great job JT.

    Bad Things - Injury to JB. Turnovers, Turnovers, Turnovers and did I say Turnovers. Give WSU some credit, but we have seen this pressure earlier this year and done much better. JB and ZR need to hang onto the rebounds they get. Many times the GU player did not run toward the pass but the WSU player did getting the turnover. QUIT STANDING AROUND and move. Very sloppy play for an experienced set of guards - disappointed in our ball handling. Another issue was letting WSU get 28 offensive rebounds. Was anybody playing under the WSU basket tonight? With our shooting percentages we should have won by 20 or more points but turnovers and offensive rebounds kept WSU in it. Wirth twins got shown D-1 BB tonight. They were slow, missed switches and generally got pushed around. Frustration set in and several silly fouls came forth. Nobody gives you anything at this level, you have to take it. Your tall, athletic and gifted but you have to work for everything you get. Time to hit the practice court.

    The only good thing to JB being out (if she is actually going to be out), is that the team has to quit relying on JB to pick up the slack. The team needs to bond together as a team, and play team basketball for the team to be successful. The starters and JT did that very well tonight (minus the turnovers & wsu's offensive rebounds). We need the whole team to get on the same page and when JB makes it back, we will be a stronger more cohesive team than we have now.

    Great Win Ladies. Rebels are up next.

    Go Zags,

    ZagDad

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    Another call out to Chandler Smith.

    Played 38 minutes today, resulting in 8 points and 11(!!) rebounds. Throw in the 4 pts and 3 rebounds from JT today and that is 12 pots and 14 rebounds from the #3 slot. Great production ladies.

    ZagDad
    Yes, Chandler is becoming a consistent key component of the team. I felt she should have played more last year, so I'm glad to see her starting and getting good minutes this year.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    Another issue was letting WSU get 28 offensive rebounds.
    Game summary in the paper this morning said WSU only got 11 points off those 28 O boards. Didn't really hurt GU that much. Not sure how many points WSU got from the 26 turnovers, but it was probably similarly way less than you would expect.

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    Old stock photo for Rice, but article about Zags-WSU game link https://www.slipperstillfits.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by seacatfan View Post
    Game summary in the paper this morning said WSU only got 11 points off those 28 O boards. Didn't really hurt GU that much. Not sure how many points WSU got from the 26 turnovers, but it was probably similarly way less than you would expect.
    The reason WSU only scored 11 2nd chance points is because they needed 3-4 consecutive offensive rebounds to get a single basket. GU had their hands on many of the 2nd,, 3rd & 4th consecutive offensive rebounds but WSU, to their credit, knocked it out of their hands or stole the ball. I mentioned the points off turnovers in an early response. In the first half, GU had 16 turnovers and WSU had 17 points of of those turnovers, more than half of their total points. In the second half GU had 10 additional turnovers and WSU only got 2 more points off of those turnovers for a total of 19 points.

    If you combine the points WSU got off of turnovers and 2nd chance points off of offensive rebounds, this comes up to a total of 30 points or more staggeringly 53.5% of their total number of points in the entire game. Had GU had only an average game and had half as many turnovers and allowed half as many offensive rebounds, resulting in half of the number of points off turnovers (and 2nd chance points) this would have resulted (big supposition here) in 15 less points for the cougars for 41 points overall and not a very close game.

    In addition, every offensive rebound and turnover is essentially a possession the Lady Zags did not get. If the Lady Zags got 27 more possessions (by cutting their turnovers in half and reducing WSU's offensive rebounds by half), given their shooting percentage last night, how many more points would they have scored?

    Yes, I realize that there is not enough time in the game for 27 more GU possessions and the game certainly would have changed had GU not had all of the turnovers or permitted all of the offensive rebounds. The analysis above just shows what could have happened if GU simply plays an average game on turnovers and offensive rebounds.

    Perhaps the biggest issue in the game that impacted WSU was the officiating. With all of the whistles, nobody had any chance to get into any kind of rhythm and I think this impacted WSU much more than GU. In reality, the only real foul trouble the zags had was their freshman (Jenn Wirth) who fouled out and Stockton with 4, while WSU ended the game with something like 5 players with 4 fouls each. If truth be told, IMO, several of the offensive fouls called against GU and for WSU were incorrect (wrong) which resulted in WSU players staying in the game when they should have fouled out. Hailey was the biggest benefactor but McClure and Brown should both also have fouled out.

    GU reacted to the questionable officiating much better than WSU did and it allowed them to run their offensive and defensive sets with relative impunity while WSU had to back off on their intensity in the second half and it cost them.

    ZagDad

  11. #61
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    "GU reacted to the questionable officiating much better than WSU did"

    ...because they're used to it?.....lol (in my car on the way home that blonde referee got quite the work over, figuratively)

    anynews about Jill?

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by sylean View Post
    "GU reacted to the questionable officiating much better than WSU did"

    ...because they're used to it?.....lol (in my car on the way home that blonde referee got quite the work over, figuratively)

    anynews about Jill?
    Hey now, don't give the blond referee all the credit. She was calling the phantom travels, it was the African-American referee who was calling the phantom offensive charges against the zags. I guess having to establish position doesn't mean squat in her universe or you can still call a charge when the defender is standing in the horseshoe. Heck, Jenn Wirth was knocked down while playing defense and was still called for a foul.

    The funniest foul I have seen was when EWU's center went flying backwards sliding on her butt after Emma S. ran into her. Yes it was a foul, but little Emma would have had to start her run in Cheney to hit the EWU center hard enough to knock her down.

    Flopping, it is all the rage. You should try it.

    ZagDad

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    Heard that replays showed many times WASSU players indeed we're flopping, made the game ugly looking. Is this good coaching or desperation cooaching. I guess you get away with what refs allow, players need to play smart, when being pushed hard should you push back or be pushed down.
    Disappointed if those were supposed to be packed 12 refs.

  14. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by pony View Post
    Heard that replays showed many times WASSU players indeed we're flopping, made the game ugly looking. Is this good coaching or desperation cooaching. I guess you get away with what refs allow, players need to play smart, when being pushed hard should you push back or be pushed down.
    Disappointed if those were supposed to be packed 12 refs.
    Sad to say that it seems like some "complete" players are now incorporating "over-reacting" (flopping?!) into their game - and it's very ugly. I expected that when my daughter got to the
    college level, that refs would be "hip" to this sort of nonsense...and actually punish players for it. As you mention - even "PAC-12" refs. In our (LMU) game vs. USC one of the 'SC players
    got to the charity stripe TWENTY-NINE + times.

    Let me say that again...29 times. A highly ranked USC team ended up beating us by 10 points. Were the majority of the foul calls legit? Sure. I'll concede that.

    BUT - in general, it is seriously hurting the sport we all love so much. And I WISH it would STOP!

  15. #65
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    Expecting quality refs from the Pac 12? Not likely. They've been much noted for being bad in various sports for years.

    I agree there were some VERY questionable offensive fouls that went against Gonzaga. One Coug in particular (Caila Hailey?) kept jumping into the path of a Zag and getting the call to go her way despite not being set or not beating the offensive player to the spot.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by CG3Dad View Post
    Sad to say that it seems like some "complete" players are now incorporating "over-reacting" (flopping?!) into their game - and it's very ugly. I expected that when my daughter got to the
    college level, that refs would be "hip" to this sort of nonsense...and actually punish players for it.
    GU's own Jill Barta has certainly attended the BYU school of flopping and the refs are on to her. She almost never gets hip checks and body shots called in her favor. Arm fouls and hand checks, sure she gets the call but if it has to do with the body, it gets ignored. Particularly on defense, you frequently find this 6'3" player sliding across the floor and the refs are not buying it.

    Laura Stockton has a similar issue. When trying to turn the corner on a dribble, she always uses her off arm to ward off the defender. This is acceptable as long as she does not push off to create space. However, frequently the defender on LS stays with her until she starts the turn and then flops and gets the call even if LS never pushed her. Happened numerous times against WSU. LS does it frequently enough that the refs just call the push even when she does not commit the foul.

    As long as players and teams can benefit from flopping and are not penalized for flopping (tough to call), it will be an integral part of the game. It is the coach's job to point out the flopping or lack of a committed foul and hound on the officials to get it right or to at least look for the foul and not call it based on the flop. As I noted above, some players simply have created their own problems with their manner of play.

    In the WSU/GU many of the fouls were legit, but numerous times, the refs just made a blatant mistake. WSUs point guard would just "jump" in front of the GU ball handler, never establishing position and flopping and getting the call. It is not hard to see the lack of establishing position, and the refs were horrible at making this call. On the 3 blocks WSU had, yes they got a lot of the ball, as long as you ignored the body contact and contact on the arms. Once again bad calls by the refs. We even had a 6'3" post get knocked to the ground when playing defense and yet get called for a foul??

    This game was poorly officiated and made the game difficult to play and watch. I don't think that the game was officiated significantly to the benefit of one team or the other and I would not say the refs were inept, but they were not too far from it. The refs should have been ashamed of their performance, but I am sure they think they did a good job.

    ZagDad

  17. #67
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    ...no.. I don't think Jill incorporates flopping as part of her game...IF she gets pushed hard, I wouldn't blame her if she fell...the refs are letting some teams get away with very rough play...somebody has to be demonstrative of it... otherwise, ..Jill is rail thin....she gets pushed around....have you not seen the bruises on her knees...Keani also never got calls when she was pushed to the floor, which happened a lot....again, there is not much to some of these girls frames and its easy to knock them over....btw, what they were doing at the game was blatant.....if you recall Pulsipher from BYU....now there's a flopper...every time she would shoot up a 3 she would deliberately launch herself backwards....and it was Pulsipher that deliberately shoved Jill with two hands in the game at our place two yrs ago....just shoved her....thankfully that was called...


    now on the other hand, Kiara K. and Zee seem to get fouls for simply standing their ground......if the refs were consistent, it would make sense...but they aren't....they let muggings happen at times and other times the slightest push gets called...

    a word about the refs...at least ONE of those refs works our games in the WCC, maybe another one I couldn't be sure....the blonde one has been our nemesis for yrs...

    I finally got to rewatch the game....

    I want to give a congratulations to Cindy Brunson and her tv coverage....I always find her very fair, never gets critical of the players, calls players by their first names frequently and genuinely is a good rep for WSU and the Pac 12 as well as womens BB...my opinion only....she seemed genuinely concerned about JB and completed her several times...

  18. #68
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    JB flops and most people know it and more important the refs certainly know it and she does not get the benefit of body calls. Playing the post or the #4 is hard, physical work and you will get beat up, sometimes legitimately and sometimes not so much. There is no doubt that JB gets fouled excessively, no argument. That still does not explain why JB goes sliding across the floor no matter if she is touched by a 5'5" guard or run over by a 6'4" bruiser. If you believe the majority of times JB is on the floor she has been legitimately fouled, fair enough. However, don't complain with the opposition does exactly the same thing. You can't have it both ways.

    Agreed that BYU is the queen of floppers, hence my reference to the BYU school of flopping. No doubt that Pulsipher took it to another level but Lexi Eaton Rydalch and Cassie Broadhead Devashrayee were not far behind. Basically if you are a BYU guard you are taught to flop and when guards like LS use their forearm to make space when they turn the corner on their drives it becomes easy for the ref to call the push off.

    Calls in the key are rough because the rules have changed on what is and is not permitted when establishing position in the key. You used to be able to get position in front of the player and systematically back them up. Now a days, if the defender establishes position behind you, you simply can't move them or its a foul. I think the refs are still trying to determine what exactly constitutes a foul when establishing position. GU in general has done a pretty good job in playing to what the refs are going to call, but then they typically are not an excessively aggressive team to start with. It is always easier to ramp up the intensity then it is to tone it down.

    I agree that the blonde ref works the WCC games and I think the African American female does as well.

    Cindy Brunson is a very experienced and knowledgeable player and sportscaster. She is a Pac-12 employee but she does not come across as too much of a Pac-12 homer. Where you noticed her lack of preparation is that she knew the Lady Cougs inside and out and knew relatively little about the Zags. She was familiar with the starting 5 for the zags and not much more. I will give her a pass on this game because she had to act as both play-by-play announcer and color commentator so she had to perform two jobs where in most cases there are at least two broadcasters in the booth. So maybe her lack of preparation on the Zags can be explained.

    ZagDad

  19. #69
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    JB and LS both flop and good for them. Nothing negative. Its become a "basketball play." Once the refs get on to them, however, probably time to stop or limit.

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