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Thread: Are the Zags ready for the PK80 tournament ?

  1. #1
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    Default Are the Zags ready for the PK80 tournament ?

    I'll have to go with what Dan Dickau said. He's a lot better basketball player than me. He said the Zags are ready, and I believe him. My opinion of Dickau is that he's a good analyst. I like listening to what he says. He and many others felt that the game last night was exactly what Gonzaga needed to get ready to face Ohio St on Thursday. I've done a lot of research today of the teams we might play next week and I have to agree with Dan. Ohio St has played very well in the OOC so far and will be a tough opponent for the first game, and I feel that will prepare us to face Florida on Friday. Ohio St is not real tall but they will definitely be tough and athletic. They are also not a real good 3 point shooting team, shooting only 30%. For the game they are shooting 50% and averaging 86 ppg. They beat Texas Southern 82-64.

    I think Florida will be kind of be built pretty much like Ohio St. Their ALL-American center 6'11" 265 pound John Egbuno has not been playing. I'm not sure if he's planning on playing Thursday. I remember him quite well from last year as he was really scary. They have a very good 6'5" transfer guard from Rich who's been playing really well, and they have their 6'1" point guard Chris Chiozza back who had a great year last year. I think Florida will handle Stanford but they will struggle a little. It will be nice to see Reid Travis, who plays for Stanford, as the Zags recruited him really hard a couple years ago.

    And we all know about the Zags, Overall they've played good, and maybe better than expected at the beginning of the season. I will certainly be looking to see the Zags raise their level of play. They are ready to show all who watch or read about them just who they are this year. They will play with an intensity that we have not seen yet. It's been good see our freshmen play, and they are better overall than I expected. I have always expected a lot out of Norvell because he's out of Chicago and was one of the very best players there. I also really loved the videos I saw back a year ago. Kispert has already been a star freshman which is just incredible. And Larsen has shown us all he's really to contribute. I am really looking forward to see how they play against some very good opponents. Those four players we talk about all the time who are back from playing last year are ready to play their new roles. Like I said before I think they are ready to rock and roll.

    One thing that I kind of expect to see is that these better teams most likely not double up Williams to start the game; so we'll be able to see how he plays. If he can dominate down low against one on one defense they'll have to double up and he will need to improve his passing out of the double team. Mostly I hope he can be more patient than he has been. He really is rushing his offensive game and is taking some poor shots. Patience my prince. Looking forward to see our Ninja Shooters back in action. They will definitely play a big part in the Zags success.

    Go Zags111
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Thanks Bornie. Good calls. Go zags!
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  3. #3
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    My initial reaction was 'no.'

    Then reading Dickau's assessment turned it into a "maybe."

    I suspect that this early in the year, most teams are struggling with some of the same things we are, and that with respect to OSU, they likely haven't played anyone good, either. USU was "okay" - they'll likely win a lot of games, they made some open 3s, and made some crazy 3s. I just wished we finished better.

    Our intensty will have to increase 2x. Tough for a fairly young team. But, reasons for optimism, I don't think JWIII has played a great game yet, and is due, Tillie is coming off his best game and should be confident, and Kispert will be playing in his first "real" games (games we could lose) and I hope to see max effort, which will be huge b/c he might just be our best overall player.

    Good news, we'll see soon enough.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

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    Personally, I never think they are ready for these early-season tourneys... But Few has a way of getting his teams to rise to the occasion of these early season OOC opportunities.

    Some things that still have me a little worried - JWIII being less efficient at Center then he would at Power Forward, the man to man defense confusion sometimes when switching or staying, the big-to-big passing that we have been spoiled with in the past, the lack of bulk on the interior when facing larger teams and rebounding in general, the depth and inexperience behind Perkins and JWIII if those two get in foul trouble... Most of these things I'm sure will improve as the season goes on.

    Some things that have me excited about this team - the play of Kispert, Tillie's shooting, the overall 3-point shooting of this team (so many shooters!), Rui's athleticism and potential for growth, the lack of turnovers in the Utah State game, the potential of Larsen to affect the paint, Norvell's shooting and quickness, the response of this team to make some timely runs yesterday when things were looking pretty tight.

    Overall, I am enthused about this team at this point - sure they need to grow, but so far its been pretty good. We'll see next weekend if they can grow more and take the next steps.

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    These are very difficult questions.

    The answer is no, but we got to play them anyway. If you are in the Big 10 or SEC, a loss to GU in November means little in the grand scheme of things. Playing in these preseason tournaments helps them prepare their teams for conference play. However, when you play outside the Power 5 conferences, you don't get the luxury of playing with different line-ups, bringing your freshman slowly up to speed, etc. because you need victories in these games much more so than the teams from the power conferences.

    Ready or not, GU will face OSU with a much bigger need for a victory than OSU needs. Is that incentive enough to push the effort to the next level, we will see. Similarly with Florida (likely), we need the victory more than they do.

    Will we be a much, much better team in March than we are today? Certainly, unfortunately, we don't get the luxury of not worrying about the games in November & December as this is when we have to make our statement to the NCAA while the power 5 conferences make their statements in January and February.

    Are we ready? Yes if we play 4 complete quarters on offense and defense, we will beat OSU and the likely game with Florida will likely be a nail biter.

    If I could take a 2-1 record beating OSU and Florida and losing to Duke right now, I would. Could we do better, certainly. Could we do worse, even more certainly.

    A week from now we will know.

    ZagDad

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    Dickau couldn't even pronounce Gonzaga correctly during the last game. Seems like a prerequisite for someone who actually attended the school.
    Krozman
    GU student 1996-2000
    Law Student 2000-2003

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    Just cuz you played the sport doesn't mean you know the sport.

    Some of the best hitting coaches were the worst hitters. So!e of the best have been the worse. I have no idea why I said this.


    Anyways go zags
    Love the zags for life

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    I've quietly watched the j-3 hype train this year. I'm beginning to suspect that I've been right all along. He's a terrific complementary player, but will really struggle as the centerpiece. He's just not built that way, and forces the issue way too predictably. Hoping the coaches find ways to spring him free, or I'm concerned about the tourney.

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    J3 has struggled early this year shooting only 10/24 FG's. He missed a lot of little hooks and bunnies that fell at a far higher rate last year and they will soon start to fall again this year. He gets double and triple teamed so it's tough going in there, but the coaches will work it out. And we should be glad he's a magnet for bodies in the paint because our great 3 point shooters will do their work and run up big scores. We have lots of shooters so worries about our offense. The defense was weak in the first half Saturday, but I think our defense is solid, better than I was thinking it might be. I think we beat Ohio State and the winner of the FL/Stanford game. I've watched both Stanford and FL (on TV) this year and I think GU wins against either. Duke is a different story. That will be a challenge for sure, but on a given night, this early in the season, anything could happen. With the tougher competition at PK80, I think Few will shorten the rotation and the minutes for some players. Of course it all depends on match-ups, fouls, etc, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the starting 5 plus Larsen and Norvell start getting more minutes. Coaches, players, and fans will learn a lot from this tournament.
    Two more days of work, then off to Portland. Can't wait.

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    J3's not been doing well because the other teams sag or double him. Thus Tillie's done well with high percentage shots. Close in stuff. Put backs.this type of thing When it come to our offense, I suppose we're as ready as most after 3 games. Offense will improve with time.
    Defense usualy wins these early games. We're holding others to 68.5 ppg. Not special . If we can get the defense ready, we have a decent change to win the first two. If we face Duke in the Final of our bracket, well.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post

    Ready or not, GU will face OSU with a much bigger need for a victory than OSU needs. Is that incentive enough to push the effort to the next level, we will see. Similarly with Florida (likely), we need the victory more than they do.
    I've said for years that this hurts us.

    A program like Florida can have freshman/inexperienced players out there and the coach can let them make mistakes and force them to play through them, consequences and all - knowing that they'll have plenty of time for quality wins down the road.

    These games are almost "must wins" for Few, at least for seeding, and maybe for placement (losing the lead to AZ two yrs ago). We can't let Rui, or Larsen, or Norvelle play through big mistakes and learn, b/c we have to win.

    It hurts us down the road in March b/c other teams' frosh and new guys have played through that stuff and are more ready for big-time. For a long time, I thought it was one reason that Few had trouble getting past first weekend. Now I know it helps to have NBA-type players.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    I've said for years that this hurts us.

    A program like Florida can have freshman/inexperienced players out there and the coach can let them make mistakes and force them to play through them, consequences and all - knowing that they'll have plenty of time for quality wins down the road.

    These games are almost "must wins" for Few, at least for seeding, and maybe for placement (losing the lead to AZ two yrs ago). We can't let Rui, or Larsen, or Norvelle play through big mistakes and learn, b/c we have to win.

    It hurts us down the road in March b/c other teams' frosh and new guys have played through that stuff and are more ready for big-time. For a long time, I thought it was one reason that Few had trouble getting past first weekend. Now I know it helps to have NBA-type players.

    Agree on all fronts. And yes it helps to have NBA players on the college level.
    Love the zags for life

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagDad84 View Post
    These are very difficult questions. The answer is no, but we got to play them anyway. If you are in the Big 10 or SEC, a loss to GU in November means little in the grand scheme of things. Playing in these preseason tournaments helps them prepare their teams for conference play. However, when you play outside the Power 5 conferences, you don't get the luxury of playing with different line-ups, bringing your freshman slowly up to speed, etc. because you need victories in these games much more so than the teams from the power conferences. Ready or not, GU will face OSU with a much bigger need for a victory than OSU needs. Is that incentive enough to push the effort to the next level, we will see. Similarly with Florida (likely), we need the victory more than they do.
    in general terms this is correct, but teams like osu/stanford are probably going to be bubble teams at best, so any meaningful non-con game is important to them...beating zags could mean the difference between staying at home or going to the dance. for florida or duke, might make a single seed line difference...

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    I guess I'm the only person here who saw the Florida highlights against UNH, they sure as h*ll don't look like world-beaters to me - or didn't in that one, at least. I'll take our clunker over USU over that showing, where they were down mid-second half.
    Your children have been placed in the custody of...Carl's Jr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gueastcoast View Post
    I guess I'm the only person here who saw the Florida highlights against UNH, they sure as h*ll don't look like world-beaters to me - or didn't in that one, at least. I'll take our clunker over USU over that showing, where they were down mid-second half.
    and they were at home.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDABE80 View Post
    J3's not been doing well because the other teams sag or double him. Thus Tillie's done well with high percentage shots. Close in stuff. Put backs.this type of thing When it come to our offense, I suppose we're as ready as most after 3 games. Offense will improve with time.
    Defense usualy wins these early games. We're holding others to 68.5 ppg. Not special . If we can get the defense ready, we have a decent change to win the first two. If we face Duke in the Final of our bracket, well.........
    I really agree Abe. I definitely felt that the defense would be the key in the early going this year, and that I felt it would be good because of the guys back from last year. You can see how complex Gonzaga's defense is because the freshmen are making freshmen mistakes. But, like you say it's very early in the season and all the teams will most likely NOT be at their peak. I give a slight edge to Duke because they've played a team like Michigan State already and beat them. However, if the Zags can get to the finals I believe they could beat Duke because for once Duke will be playing out West in Portland. Gonzaga is certainly not liked in North Carolina, and believe me Duke is not liked out west in Portland or Seattle. If we get to play Duke that game will be rockin.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    I think Zags are ready for PK80 but the college hoops writers at NCAA.com definitely are not! Their preview of PK80 says possible title game matchup of Duke vs UNC or Duke vs Michigan State. No, not possible. Pretty poor job by NCAA.com:
    http://https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ncaa.com/amp/news/basketball-men/article/2017-11-19/college-basketball-tournament-previews-what-watch-pk80-maui
    It is their time....their team...I just get to watch. - Bartruff1

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    I don't think we're ready yet. I watched the Utah State game again, looking specifically at out defensive rotation. The new additions to our playing rotation are still struggling. Our best lineup has W3 and Larsen together but Larsen had 4 fouls in 7 min, all freshman centers struggle with fouls. W3 had 4 fouls in 22 min, but I thought 3 of the 4 were marginal calls at best. We only out-rebounded Utah 40-36. Are we really a great 3 pt. shooting team? We shot 27.8%. That's what we want to hold our opponents to and they shot 40.7%. I believe we end up a very good team and this is a really fun team to watch. I watched Kispert's missed dunk a bunch of times. I thought it was really impressive and he was fouled as well.

  19. #19

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    i'm surprised at how many zag fans are overlooking ohio state and already looking ahead to florida...holtmann has done a good job with that team coming over from butler and while they aren't real tall, they have a lot of beef inside and pretty good athletes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WallaWallaZag View Post
    i'm surprised at how many zag fans are overlooking ohio state and already looking ahead to florida...holtmann has done a good job with that team coming over from butler and while they aren't real tall, they have a lot of beef inside and pretty good athletes.
    I can't see any proof that fans are overlooking Ohio St. If you look at the thread about the game predictions I see fans believing it'll be a close game. a lot of posters see the Zags winning by less than ten points. Personally, I believe the Zags will win by more than ten points because they are that much better, Ohio St has always been a great team, and beat the Zags in the NCAA tournament not too long ago. The Zags will remember that. It was a great game, and Ohio St was just a little bit better. I don't feel that this year's OSU team is as good as that one back then. Zags may be better than the Zag team back then.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

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    Mark has had remarkable success in these early season tournaments and I suspect that will continue, but in the over all scheme of things, I don't think it is a big deal unless you are concerned about ratings or seeding....I am not...

    IMO the success of the season depends in a large part on winning the Conference and most importantly the WCC Tournament ...

    Regardless of seeding, once you are in the NCAA, it is the proverbial krap shoot and I am not aware if there is any strong correlation between your seeding and your success .... so I will enjoy the PK one game at a time , win or lose and watch the team progress...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bartruff1 View Post
    Mark has had remarkable success in these early season tournaments and I suspect that will continue, but in the over all scheme of things, I don't think it is a big deal unless you are concerned about ratings or seeding....I am not...

    IMO the success of the season depends in a large part on winning the Conference and most importantly the WCC Tournament ...

    Regardless of seeding, once you are in the NCAA, it is the proverbial krap shoot and I am not aware if there is any strong correlation between your seeding and your success .... so I will enjoy the PK one game at a time , win or lose and watch the team progress...
    It's a fact: Seeds 1-8 make up 85.2 percent of the Sweet 16. Seeds 9-16 make up 14.8 percent of the Sweet 16.
    It's a fact: The top 16 seeds in tournament — of the teams seeded No. 1-4 — have an 83.6 percent chance of making the Final Four. Only 21 teams seeded lower than No. 4 have made the Final Four since 1985.
    It's a fact: 75 percent of the national champions in the expanded bracket era were either a No. 1 or No. 2 seed.
    Connecticut, which won the tournament as a No. 3 in 2011 and as a No. 7 in 2014, is the only champion in the past 10 years that wasn't a No. 1 or No. 2.
    So yeah, your seed is a pretty good predictor of how you'll do in the tournament...

  23. #23
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    At least one talking head views Ohio St as a F4 contender.

    Dan Dakich picked the Buckeyes to reach the Final 4, believes they have some young NBA talent on the team.

    OSU is BIG. Just big dudes. Not overly tall, but all very muscular/built/strong.

    I've always wondered why our junior or senior Guards don't build muscle the same way other programs/players do? No biggie, just apparent how much thinner or lean GU guards are compared to Power 5 opposition.

    http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2017/11...s_ohio_st.html

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    Gu will be as 'ready' as most teams are at this time of year.

    On the plus side:
    - they did get challenged by a hot 3 point shooting team, and won
    - made defensive mistakes in first half of tight game and corrected them at halftime
    - GU has Perkins, JWIII, and Melson, who have all been on the biggest stage
    - Tillie clearly looks ready for prime time
    - despite some jittery play, they've kept the to's down

    So, I like their chances against THE OSU and if they're lucky enough to get the win, I like their chances against Florida/Stanford.

    First half of Utah State game wasn't pretty, but it wasn't THAT ugly. This is a solid team with pieces to be a high level rebounding, shooting, and defensive team... and those pieces are coming together sooner than expected. PK80 will be a challenge, but I expect them to show well, win or lose.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by raise the zag View Post
    At least one talking head views Ohio St as a F4 contender.
    Dan Dakich picked the Buckeyes to reach the Final 4, believes they have some young NBA talent on the team.
    OSU is BIG. Just big dudes. Not overly tall, but all very muscular/built/strong.
    I've always wondered why our junior or senior Guards don't build muscle the same way other programs/players do? No biggie, just apparent how much thinner or lean GU guards are compared to Power 5 opposition.
    http://www.cleveland.com/osu/2017/11...s_ohio_st.html
    i have absolutely no proof or actual analysis to back this, but based on experience i would venture to say that in general the muscle-bound guys tend to be poorer shooters compared to the skinny dudes...zag system needs shooters.

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