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Thread: Jim Meehan's Starting Five

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goshzagit View Post
    Probably right on Tillie, yet expect Rui and Norvell off the bench.
    Kispert starting over Rui and Norvell from day one would be one of the biggest upsets in program history. Especially when you consider that great zags like Morrison or recruits like Collins came off the bench.

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    Quote Originally Posted by btzag View Post
    Kispert starting over Rui and Norvell from day one would be one of the biggest upsets in program history. Especially when you consider that great zags like Morrison or recruits like Collins came off the bench.
    Morrison should have started as a freshman.

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    I'm anxious to hear what Tommy has to say tomorrow night. It's very early into the practice season so I doubt he will reveal a starting line up. However, I can't imagine anyone but Norvell starting at the 3 for the first part of the season. I for one wan't disappointed at all in what I saw of Norvell at Kraziness. He can really get it to the hoop and score in many different ways. He's a class act and l really expect him to shine this year once he gets into the flow of the offense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbslicer View Post
    Morrison should have started as a freshman.
    Agreed. We lost our final game that season as a result...

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goshzagit View Post
    Agreed. We lost our final game that season as a result...
    Adam played 8 more minutes in that Nevada loss than every starter except Stepp and Violette. I don’t see how Morrison on the floor at
    outset would have prevented the quick whistles on Ronny.

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    The 3 has to be Rui's to lose. He's got a year in the system and he's got the highest upside over anyone on the team. Norvel looks like a 2 guard, not small forward. Kispert looks promising, but Few will likely give the nod to the seniority. Rui may well blunder the opportunity, but he'll have the first kick at the position.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by BULLDOG#1 View Post
    The 3 has to be Rui's to lose. He's got a year in the system and he's got the highest upside over anyone on the team. Norvel looks like a 2 guard, not small forward. Kispert looks promising, but Few will likely give the nod to the seniority. Rui may well blunder the opportunity, but he'll have the first kick at the position.
    With respect, I disagree. It's Norvell's to lose. He's more than an outside scorer and understands the game and the system better at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Rui demand major minutes at the 3. That would only mean good things for this year's Zags. But Norvell checks all the boxes of a 3, and then some. I think he starts there, then spells Melson at the 2. Next up at the 3 is the battle between Kispert and Rui.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCityZag View Post
    With respect, I disagree. It's Norvell's to lose. He's more than an outside scorer and understands the game and the system better at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Rui demand major minutes at the 3. That would only mean good things for this year's Zags. But Norvell checks all the boxes of a 3, and then some. I think he starts there, then spells Melson at the 2. Next up at the 3 is the battle between Kispert and Rui.
    The ability to defend and help rebound will dictate who gets the most minutes at that wing spot. Rui can protect the rim a bit, but might struggle staying in front of some of the quicker wing players the Zags will see. Norvell is a better on ball defender on the perimeter, but is not real explosive (below average hops) and isnt going to block shots or rebound as well as Rui. Offensively they are really different players. Norvell is a really good shooter, crafty driver, but isnt going to blow by or jump over any one. Rui is almost a polar opposite in that he is an average shooter but will posterize someone with his athleticism if given the chance.

    My guess is that Norvell will start at the 3, but Rui will get opportunities there as well. Dont know much about Kispert and not sure how he fits in the rotation

  9. #59
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    For a Rui, it is all about Basketball IQ, and court awareness...
    On both ends. If he starts to figure it out, in the 5 on 5 settings
    Both offensively and defensively, Then you'll have trouble keeping
    him off the court. Until then...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh View Post
    The ability to defend and help rebound will dictate who gets the most minutes at that wing spot. Rui can protect the rim a bit, but might struggle staying in front of some of the quicker wing players the Zags will see. Norvell is a better on ball defender on the perimeter, but is not real explosive (below average hops) and isnt going to block shots or rebound as well as Rui. Offensively they are really different players. Norvell is a really good shooter, crafty driver, but isnt going to blow by or jump over any one. Rui is almost a polar opposite in that he is an average shooter but will posterize someone with his athleticism if given the chance.

    My guess is that Norvell will start at the 3, but Rui will get opportunities there as well. Dont know much about Kispert and not sure how he fits in the rotation
    Not trying to be a jerk - but isn't that kinda contradictory?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh View Post
    The ability to defend and help rebound will dictate who gets the most minutes at that wing spot. Rui can protect the rim a bit, but might struggle staying in front of some of the quicker wing players the Zags will see. Norvell is a better on ball defender on the perimeter, but is not real explosive (below average hops) and isnt going to block shots or rebound as well as Rui. Offensively they are really different players. Norvell is a really good shooter, crafty driver, but isnt going to blow by or jump over any one. Rui is almost a polar opposite in that he is an average shooter but will posterize someone with his athleticism if given the chance.

    My guess is that Norvell will start at the 3, but Rui will get opportunities there as well. Dont know much about Kispert and not sure how he fits in the rotation
    Right now, Rui is a more known commodity than Norvell. I cannot understand why folks here highlight Rui's deficiencies (which are known) and yet declare Norvell as a better on the ball defender when we've seen no evidence of this in a GU uniform.

    If the ability to defend and help rebound is paramount, then I sorta think Rui wins hands down. His strength and athletic ability translates into rebounds and weakside blocks (saw this last year) and I didn't witness a lot of issues with him guarding the perimeter. Highlights I've seen of Norvell, he's a 2 guard. Few might like to spread the defenses and have the 3 guard three point offense (in which a guy like Norvell could thrive). We all know how successful Mathews was as an undersized and not real athletic 3 in Few's system, but I still think it's Rui's to lose.

    And lose he might. Many here are incredibly high on Norvell, and though I don't see it yet, they could be right. My guess is that Rui will still get the first kick at it, though.

  12. #62
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    Somewhere along the way I see Krispert and Rui at the wing and Norvell at the two.
    The hallmark of a second class person is the resentment of another's success-R.W. Emerson
    Whatever you focus your mind on grows, grow a rose garden and not a weed patch-Dr Paul

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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by strikenowhere View Post
    Not trying to be a jerk - but isn't that kinda contradictory?
    Not contradictory at all. Norvell has quicker feet and better anticipation than Rui on the defensive end. Rui is a more explosive leaper than Norvel on the offensive end

    This is based on nothing I have seen, as I have seen little of either. It is based on whT I have been told by those that see them everyday.

  14. #64
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    Norvell is a more complete player. He currently offers tools that will produce higher value. Part of playing on this team is playing within the system. You have to be efficient. You have to also understand it, or you won't get any time on the court.

    Norvell is a better ball handler, better passer, has less waisted movement, better shooter, and moves better without the ball.

    Rui has more upside, but highlight plays do not efficiency value make.

    Plus, Zack fits the 2, better. Combo guard that can shoot lights out. Our glue guy role seems to be optimal at the Wing, and Silas has the defense to be successful at that position.




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    Quote Originally Posted by MileHigh View Post
    Dont know much about Kispert and not sure how he fits in the rotation
    He starts at the 3. Even spot minutes at 4.

    Maybe not Game 1, but by Game 2 or 3.

    Norvell will play plenty as well, but mostly SG, some Wing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BULLDOG#1 View Post
    Right now, Rui is a more known commodity than Norvell. I cannot understand why folks here highlight Rui's deficiencies (which are known) and yet declare Norvell as a better on the ball defender when we've seen no evidence of this in a GU uniform.

    If the ability to defend and help rebound is paramount, then I sorta think Rui wins hands down. His strength and athletic ability translates into rebounds and weakside blocks (saw this last year) and I didn't witness a lot of issues with him guarding the perimeter. Highlights I've seen of Norvell, he's a 2 guard. Few might like to spread the defenses and have the 3 guard three point offense (in which a guy like Norvell could thrive). We all know how successful Mathews was as an undersized and not real athletic 3 in Few's system, but I still think it's Rui's to lose.

    And lose he might. Many here are incredibly high on Norvell, and though I don't see it yet, they could be right. My guess is that Rui will still get the first kick at it, though.
    To me, Norvell is far more of a known commodity. He has an instinctive understanding of the game, honed by playing in one of the toughest bb environments in the country since childhood. Rui, on the other hand, grew up playing against less talented opposition, and has always been able to dominate one on one. So he is still in the process of learning to play in a way that is still relatively new to him.
    And imo he won't start for Few until he instinctively, seamlessly fits into GU's half court game. Norvell and Kispert both can do that. Each has been picked to start by posters who strike me as pretty astute, and/or have connections.

    Rui certainly has the most pro upside of the three players, but is the least developed at this point imo. At this point I think he's best off coming off the bench w/ the second unit, using his size and athleticism maybe in the zone trapping defense with a unit pushing tempo and getting scoring opportunities in transition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maynard g krebs View Post
    To me, Norvell is far more of a known commodity. He has an instinctive understanding of the game, honed by playing in one of the toughest bb environments in the country since childhood. Rui, on the other hand, grew up playing against less talented opposition, and has always been able to dominate one on one. So he is still in the process of learning to play in a way that is still relatively new to him.
    And imo he won't start for Few until he instinctively, seamlessly fits into GU's half court game. Norvell and Kispert both can do that. Each has been picked to start by posters who strike me as pretty astute, and/or have connections.

    Rui certainly has the most pro upside of the three players, but is the least developed at this point imo. At this point I think he's best off coming off the bench w/ the second unit, using his size and athleticism maybe in the zone trapping defense with a unit pushing tempo and getting scoring opportunities in transition.
    Rui dominated the FIBA U19s, did he not? He put up huge numbers against the best U19s in the world and did so with constant double and triple teams... That's got to be equal to or greater than Norvell's high school experience.

    Don't forget, Novell hasn't played a minute of college ball and we don't even know if the knee is fully healed. The 3 is not his natural position, and I have doubts that he can defend at that position (his defense is a question mark overall). Despite Rui's size and ability to play the post, he's more suited to the 3 than Norvell.

    I have high hopes for Norvell, but I don't share the ridiculously high optimism many share here regarding him. To me he's more Bol Kong than Steven Gray. Hope I'm wrong.

    Agree that Kispert could surprise, but he's got zero college experience too, and Few isn't likely to start a frosh, at least at the beginning of the season.

  18. #68
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    A couple thoughts. The 2 and 3 have often been interchangeable and indistinguishable at GU (at a lot of schools really). There have been VERY few prototype 3's at GU. Few likes 3 guard lineups.

    Few also likes players he can trust. I don't think "player w/ most upside" is the determining factor for him as far as lineups. It's more about which player knows where to position himself on O and D, how to run the offense, limits turnovers, etc.

    I haven't seen practices or the KIK, but based on what I've read on this board I don't think Rui has a leg up on a starting spot vs. either Norvell or Kispert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BULLDOG#1 View Post
    Rui dominated the FIBA U19s, did he not? He put up huge numbers against the best U19s in the world and did so with constant double and triple teams... That's got to be equal to or greater than Norvell's high school experience.
    I didn't see any of the U19 worlds, so it's possible that he's made a huge leap, which would be great. But imo the ability to carry a lesser team going 1 on 2 or 1 on 3 is much different from what he'll need to do to be successful with the Zags. I'm in the camp that says he's still got a learning curve to experience before he can be a starter in the Zags' system.

    I really hope you're right, actually, because if Few sees him as worthy of starting over Norvell and Kispert, it means this team is going to be better than most people expect. Maybe much better.

    I don't think Bol Kong is remotely comparable to Norvell.

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    Listen I get the ???'s about Rui cause I have a lot as well, but he is freakishly talented and has played in our system for a year + now.

    Norvell has also practiced in the system for a year and is super talented so he is definitely going to get a huge look.

    But Kispert?! I've seen the video's and pictures and all that...but do you guys forget that he played in small school hs hoops last year and just had his first official D1 practice or that he missed a ton of hoops last year with an injury? This hype about him has grown to almost crazy levels. Have ANY of you seen him practice? IF he is dominating Rui and Norvell and has picked up all the offensive and defensive concepts in a couple practices please let me know. But this notion that he is the favorite or even neck and neck with those guys is not fair to kid IMO.

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    btzag I saw Krispert practice this year and last year. As I've mentioned before last year, just getting ready for his senior year in high school at summer scrimmages I thought he was about the best player on the floor. You will be excited shortly.
    Last edited by zag buddy; 10-12-2017 at 08:33 PM.
    The hallmark of a second class person is the resentment of another's success-R.W. Emerson
    Whatever you focus your mind on grows, grow a rose garden and not a weed patch-Dr Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag buddy View Post
    btzag I saw him practice this year and last year. As I've mentioned before last year, just getting ready for his senior year in high school at summer scrimmages I thought he was about the best player on the floor. You will be excited shortly.
    Oh I'm excited but there is a middle ground between redshirting and being a day 1 starter over two of our returning super-talented guard/wings. We'll see but I would bet that there is a 99% chance Kispert comes off the bench in November.

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    Quote Originally Posted by btzag View Post
    Oh I'm excited but there is a middle ground between redshirting and being a day 1 starter over two of our returning super-talented guard/wings. We'll see but I would bet that there is a 99% chance Kispert comes off the bench in November.
    There is also a vid of Kispert playing in a pro-am and putting up numbers on Jamal Crawford. Not just against HS teams from small schools.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    There is also a vid of Kispert playing in a pro-am and putting up numbers on Jamal Crawford. Not just against HS teams from small schools.
    Yep I saw that video as well, in fact I've seen them all, for all three kids including Norvell's at Simeon High in chicago and Rui in FIBA's etc. He's not starting day one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by btzag View Post
    Yep I saw that video as well, in fact I've seen them all, for all three kids including Norvell's at Simeon High in chicago and Rui in FIBA's etc. He's not starting day one.
    Bud Withers posted an interview with Mark Few on his blog today. Here are Few's quotes about the three wings in question.

    -- Rui Hachimura: “He’s great in the open court, great in space and just a physical specimen. But he’s got some ways to go to be able to function in the half-court and use all this God-given athleticism.”

    -- Zach Norvell: “He’s a streaky kind of kid. He does a nice job making plays with the basketball, but he’s still got some areas defensively to work on.”

    -- Corey Kispert: “He’s going to be really good. He’s tough, athletic and has great size.”
    You can read the full article here http://en.bloguru.com/GloryHounds/30...th-the-gonzaga

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