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Thread: Wiltjer to the Clippers

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    As Ricky Bobby would say, "with all due respect, you're FOS." I find your remark dripping with condescension.

    However, it's gratifying to know there are people like you posting on these boards that are highly educated on how the NBA works. Has Jimmy Dolan called you yet? The Knicks need someone to fill Phil Jackson's spot in the organization.
    As another 30+ year NBA fan bigsmoove is exactly correct on how NBA teams use their benches. I did not find his remarks condescending in the least, they were correct. A person who doesn't watch the NBA is allowed an opinion, but when he states something incorrectly there's nothing wrong about someone else correcting him and telling him how it works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robzagnut View Post
    As another 30+ year NBA fan bigsmoove is exactly correct on how NBA teams use their benches. I did not find his remarks condescending in the least, they were correct. A person who doesn't watch the NBA is allowed an opinion, but when he states something incorrectly there's nothing wrong about someone else correcting him and telling him how it works.
    What did I state that was incorrect? I stated MY OPINION!

    I can see how Sacre would be used to work in practice against another center. I can see a quick guard being used to help a starting guard. What does a 3 point sniper that is slow, not athletic and can't defend do for a team? Not being sarcastic. I would like an honest answer.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    What did I state that was incorrect? I stated MY OPINION!

    I can see how Sacre would be used to work in practice against another center. I can see a quick guard being used to help a starting guard. What does a 3 point sniper that is slow, not athletic and can't defend do for a team? Not being sarcastic. I would like an honest answer.
    It was your opinion, but just like you having an opinion that the sky is green and not blue, or that Adam Morrison was the GOAT NBA player (sure i would have liked that too), those opinions are categorically false. The fact that you and Tex are upset about the semantics of how truth is stated is fine, go ahead and be upset with my "condescension", but at the end of the day, the NBA operates in a certain manner, and unfortunately in this case, its not in a manner that helps Kyle see the floor more often.

    To answer your question regarding how he is useful, He was seen as a cheap replacement for Ryan Anderson in the event he got hurt. Hes a stretch 4. That was his use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    What did I state that was incorrect? I stated MY OPINION!

    I can see how Sacre would be used to work in practice against another center. I can see a quick guard being used to help a starting guard. What does a 3 point sniper that is slow, not athletic and can't defend do for a team? Not being sarcastic. I would like an honest answer.

    He is practice guy for his own benefit. He is there to get better, learn the game and work with the coaching staff. Ryan Anderson is a key piece to what the Rockets are doing. Kyle shows the potential he could (might!) be a capable back-up to Anderson. The Rockets were grooming him to see if he could fill that roll one day (he clearly couldn't last season). The Rockets were investing in him to see if he could get there but the jury is still out. Anderson also has an injury riddled history, so I am sure Wiltjer was on the roster "just in case" as they would still want that 3 point threat from the 4 for some limited minutes if Anderson went down (he didn't).

    This trade doesn;t mean the Rockets or D'antoni dislike Wiltjer. They needed his contract in there to get the deal done - he is a tiny unimportant piece. I still think he gets cut by the Clips (we'll know in the next 48 hours) and ends up back with the Rockets.

    And...

    Do you not realize that opinions can be wrong? Nobody is telling you can't state your opinion - I don't know why you are in a tizzy if someone points out you are wrong. And you are wrong.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo13 View Post
    He is practice guy for his own benefit. He is there to get better, learn the game and work with the coaching staff. Ryan Anderson is a key piece to what the Rockets are doing. Kyle shows the potential he could (might!) be a capable back-up to Anderson. The Rockets were grooming him to see if he could fill that roll one day (he clearly couldn't last season). The Rockets were investing in him to see if he could get there but the jury is still out. Anderson also has an injury riddled history, so I am sure Wiltjer was on the roster "just in case" as they would still want that 3 point threat from the 4 for some limited minutes if Anderson went down (he didn't).

    This trade doesn;t mean the Rockets or D'antoni dislike Wiltjer. They needed his contract in there to get the deal done - he is a tiny unimportant piece. I still think he gets cut by the Clips (we'll know in the next 48 hours) and ends up back with the Rockets.

    And...

    Do you not realize that opinions can be wrong? Nobody is telling you can't state your opinion - I don't know why you are in a tizzy if someone points out you are wrong. And you are wrong.
    Because you still haven't told me what I said that was wrong. Do you not understand that?
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    when the game was a blowout with less than 2 minutes left, there was no reason not to get Kyle some experience. If the intention was to not get him into the game then it was better for him to be on the Vipers.
    This is the part that is wrong. NBA Teams carry 15 players, 13 of which suit up. Kyle spent a good portion of the year in between 12-17 on the rotation meaning one of the top 2 players on the Vipers and the bottom 4 players on the Rockets. Most of his games, he didnt suit up but was still part of the culture, the practices, etc. Doesnt shed any light on the coaches opinion of him, sheds more light on his youth and weaknesses as a player at this stage in his career. But again, without watching the NBA on a regular basis, its hard to pick up those pieces and translate it for someone who is used to exclusively watching College Ball. Im sure you will take fault with this as well

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    Oh - I thought that was obvious. Besides what is pointed out above by thebigsmoove. Your original comment was this:

    I think that he has a better chance with a coach that cares and tries to work with him. It seemed that the Houston owners liked what Wiltjer brought to the table, the coach wanted no part of it, so he was on the team but not really part of the team. Just my view of it.
    A few people here who follow the Rockets and Wiltjer are trying to tell you this isn't true. D' Antoni has been a a strong supporter of Wiltjer the entire season. I believe he was integral to signing Wiltjer. The entire organization seems to really like him. He didn't play for the other many reasons mentioned on this thread, not because Coach D'Antoni didn't like him.


    Here are some D'Antoni quotes when Kyle made the opening day roster:
    ""He has two NBA skills," D'Antoni said. "One is shooting which is off the charts and is not just an NBA skill, but a top-level NBA skill. He can be a great shooter. The second thing is he really knows how to play offensively. He has a great feel for the game.”
    D’Antoni also went on to give praise for Wiltjer’s defensive awareness, and suggested that over time he should be able to craft himself into a suitable NBA player.
    "On defense, he's always in the right position. He lacks a little strength. He lacks a little mobility. They'll work on and he'll get better. He'll get stronger physically. But if you watch his whole game and watch film on him, he's a very high-level player. I think he's an NBA player."
    http://www.chron.com/sports/rockets/...d-10153110.php

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsmoove View Post
    This is the part that is wrong. NBA Teams carry 15 players, 13 of which suit up. Kyle spent a good portion of the year in between 12-17 on the rotation meaning one of the top 2 players on the Vipers and the bottom 4 players on the Rockets. Most of his games, he didnt suit up but was still part of the culture, the practices, etc. Doesnt shed any light on the coaches opinion of him, sheds more light on his youth and weaknesses as a player at this stage in his career. But again, without watching the NBA on a regular basis, its hard to pick up those pieces and translate it for someone who is used to exclusively watching College Ball. Im sure you will take fault with this as well
    I still don't see what I said that was wrong. There were some blowout games where he would get in for the final 20 seconds. I don't see that as helping him, but I didn't say that. I stretched it to two minutes, and said it would have been better to have been playing on the Vipers than sitting on the bench. I get it that he was exposed to the NBA team etc. I just don't know that that was necessarily the best for Kyle. I also am sure that you will find fault with this as well.

    I have not once tried to tell you that you are wrong. I haven't tried to impugn your intelligence or observation skills. I have just responded to your attempts to tell me that my observations are wrong. They, by definition, are MY observations. They do not deal with how the NBA works or is structured. They are just MY observations...and they are not wrong, whether you like that or not.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    I have not once tried to tell you that you are wrong. I haven't tried to impugn your intelligence or observation skills. I have just responded to your attempts to tell me that my observations are wrong. They, by definition, are MY observations. They do not deal with how the NBA works or is structured. They are just MY observations...and they are not wrong, whether you like that or not.
    Being Wrong does not make one unintelligent or unable to observe. You stated you dont observe, which is why you are probably wrong here, and honestly at this point you are keeping it going with these "i dont know what i did" statements. Just let sleeping dogs lay, this will be my last comment on this thread regarding this matter. I dont have a problem with you, your brain, or any other person on this board. I am actually a nice guy and i love Gonzaga basketball the same as you. Lets be friends going forward and focus on our deep admiration for all things Bulldog Basketball. Peace.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigsmoove View Post
    Being Wrong does not make one unintelligent or unable to observe. You stated you dont observe, which is why you are probably wrong here, and honestly at this point you are keeping it going with these "i dont know what i did" statements. Just let sleeping dogs lay, this will be my last comment on this thread regarding this matter. I dont have a problem with you, your brain, or any other person on this board. I am actually a nice guy and i love Gonzaga basketball the same as you. Lets be friends going forward and focus on our deep admiration for all things Bulldog Basketball. Peace.
    Do you know Damon Thurman? He is (or was) in the jewelry industry, is 6'4" and from Louisville. I went to GIA with him in the mid 1980's.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    What did I state that was incorrect? I stated MY OPINION!

    I can see how Sacre would be used to work in practice against another center. I can see a quick guard being used to help a starting guard. What does a 3 point sniper that is slow, not athletic and can't defend do for a team? Not being sarcastic. I would like an honest answer.
    I think their criticism is not of your ability to hold and express an opinion, but rather your inability/unwillingness to change that opinion based on facts/evidence that strongly suggest your opinion is inaccurate. The observation that Wiltjer didn't play in the last couple minutes of blowouts as evidence for the coach disliking him isn't persuasive when stacked against explanations of how NBA teams routinely utilize their bench from people who religiously watch the NBA (or who, likely myself, religiously watch the Rockets). Keep your opinions coming, they are valuable, but just be flexible when presented with stronger evidence that suggest your conclusions might not be accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzdb8 View Post
    I think their criticism is not of your ability to hold and express an opinion, but rather your inability/unwillingness to change that opinion based on facts/evidence that strongly suggest your opinion is inaccurate. The observation that Wiltjer didn't play in the last couple minutes of blowouts as evidence for the coach disliking him isn't persuasive when stacked against explanations of how NBA teams routinely utilize their bench from people who religiously watch the NBA (or who, likely myself, religiously watch the Rockets). Keep your opinions coming, they are valuable, but just be flexible when presented with stronger evidence that suggest your conclusions might not be accurate.
    You may be right. It just seems to me that, if you wanted to see how a player would/could perform. he was on the bench and suited up, you would put him in when the game was out of reach. It seems to me that someone wanted Wiltjer on the Rockets, if only because they signed him and kept him on the roster long enough to get the bigger portion of his contract guaranteed. One of the games I did watch, they put Kyle in, along with several others, at the end. He worked with the offense and took (and made) the open shot he had, within the flow of the offense. The others were all chuckers.

    But still...how the NBA works does not change my opinion. Birds fly! Seeing penguins doesn't change that. I don't need to have my opinion validated, but just because it doesn't fit into your parameters, it doesn't mean it is wrong. But whatever. I'm out!
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Not wanting to muddy the water any more, there is the fact that NBA D league players, in the 'A' level tier, were paid $25,000 for the season. Kyle is listed as having been paid $543,000, so it seems different than how you have said the NBA normally works.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    Not wanting to muddy the water any more, there is the fact that NBA D league players, in the 'A' level tier, were paid $25,000 for the season. Kyle is listed as having been paid $543,000, so it seems different than how you have said the NBA normally works.
    Ok - I am not the NBA CBA expert but I'll try to clear up the muddy waters....

    Kyle was signed to a partially guaranteed deal last year. Meaning he was going to get XXX no matter what from the Rockets (I think ~200K-300K) and by a certain point in the season if he was still with the Rockets he would get the league minimum of $543K (January sometime) - which Kyle got. And he was in line for the league minimum in the 2nd year - which shot up to ~$1.8 mil.
    Until this year NBA teams can guarantee or partially guarantee up to 15 roster spots - so these partial guarantees were usually used on the 13, 14, 15 roster spot. Undrafted rookies, 2nd round draft picks, vet d-league guys trying to stick with a team. Any of these 15 roster spot guys can be sent up and down to the D-league without clearing waivers - and their pay rates didn't change when they were in the D league.

    And yes the D-league max. was around $25K for "A" players. But allot of d-league guys were on these partial deals getting way more.

    This year the G-league (they renamed the league) max has moved to $75K and the NBA minimum to about ~$800K (going off the top of my head here).

    This year they have expanded NBA rosters to 17 and these two extra spots can be 2-way deals. Meaning you are collecting a 75K salary when in the G and ~800K when recalled to the NBA club (prorated). It is an added way for the NBA teams to stake a claim on a young guy to see how he develops for a couple years. These deals I think are for guys with less than 4 years pro experience.


    with Kyle, note above, he was due $1.8M minimum in his 2nd year, but it was not guaranteed. Rockets had an option on him for Year 2. I thought the Clipper had the option until July 1st to guarantee Kyle for this upcoming season. I have heard nothing about it at all - so I am assuming they didn't extend him and he is a free agent right now (not certain though).

    I am also hearing of a Spanish club (Baskonia) negotiating with him on a deal right now too.
    Last edited by Mojo13; 07-03-2017 at 09:53 AM.

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    LOS ANGELES CLIPPERS

    2017 Free Agents

    Restricted
    None

    Unrestricted
    Alan Anderson
    Brandon Bass
    Raymond Felton
    Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
    Marreese Speights

    2018 Free Agents

    Restricted
    Montrezl Harrell
    Diamond Stone
    Kyle Wiltjer

    Unrestricted
    Wesley Johnson (P)
    DeAndre Jordan (P)
    DeAndre Liggins
    Austin Rivers (P)
    Lou Williams
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    LOS ANGELES CLIPPERS

    2017 Free Agents

    Restricted
    None

    Unrestricted
    Alan Anderson
    Brandon Bass
    Raymond Felton
    Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
    Marreese Speights

    2018 Free Agents

    Restricted
    Montrezl Harrell
    Diamond Stone
    Kyle Wiltjer

    Unrestricted
    Wesley Johnson (P)
    DeAndre Jordan (P)
    DeAndre Liggins
    Austin Rivers (P)
    Lou Williams
    Wiltjer listed on the Clippers summer league team today too.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by willandi View Post
    I think that he has a better chance with a coach that cares and tries to work with him. It seemed that the Houston owners liked what Wiltjer brought to the table, the coach wanted no part of it, so he was on the team but not really part of the team. Just my view of it.
    Often wondered if he would get more of a shot on a team without Harden. Think it is a good move for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerZag View Post
    Often wondered if he would get more of a shot on a team without Harden. Think it is a good move for him.
    What's up with Harden in your opinion? Seems you just don't like the guy. He darn well led the league in assists last year and should have been MVP. It is truly amazing that he could switch from a SG to a lead PG and in the first year lead the league in assists. The Rockets were trying to surround him with three point shooters at all positions. Wiltjer's type (aka Ryan Anderson) is tailor fit for what the Rockets were trying to do and was probably the best team for Wiltjer in the NBA. An argument can be made he could have had more opportunity on a crappier team but I am not sure any other team was going to give him a shot last year.

    It looks like he is not in the Clippers plans so far - he hasn't played much on their SL team and when he has played he has he's been terribad. He doesn't look a good fit for the Clippers and I am not even sure he gets invited to their camp. He is on a non-guaranteed deal and the Clips likely need to cut him to avoid luxury tax. If I had to lay a bet, he will be cut before training camp probably soon after SL ends. We shall see....

    No doubt the trade to the Clips was bad for Wiltjer and his NBA prospects - they didn't want him, he is not in their plans. His contract was just grease to get the CP3 deal done. My guess is the Rockets are the only team that saw him as a player they MIGHT develop into something useful for their system. He could well end up back there, but I rather see him go to Europe and play. I wholeheartedly believe a significant role on a Euroleague team is better to a young players development and likely career than no minutes on an NBA team.
    Last edited by Mojo13; 07-14-2017 at 03:18 PM.

  20. #45
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    Wiltjer waived by the clippers
    https://www.fanragsports.com/news/re...-kyle-wiltjer/


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    Quote Originally Posted by primal23 View Post
    Wiltjer waived by the clippers
    https://www.fanragsports.com/news/re...-kyle-wiltjer/


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    No surprise.

    I recently learned that the CBA says the Rockets can't sign him for a year after they traded him once waived. So my guess is he turns towards Europe.

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    Starting to see more Twitter rumors of Kyle Wiltjer to Baskonia.
    A top team in the Spanish ACB and Euroleague team.

    I'd love to see KW tear it up in the Euroleague. Vitoria is supposedly a basketball mad city with a great fan base.

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    https://translate.google.ca/translat...-text=&act=url

    Kyle Wiltjer could become Kim Tillie's replacement

    The son of former FC Barcelona player Lassa and Caja Madrid would have been offered to Baskonia as published by Oscar San Martín in Noticias de Alava . He is a power forward of 24 years and 2.08 height, which stands out fundamentally for his exterior shot , which enables him to play that role of four open so common in today's basketball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo13 View Post
    Starting to see more Twitter rumors of Kyle Wiltjer to Baskonia.
    A top team in the Spanish ACB and Euroleague team.

    I'd love to see KW tear it up in the Euroleague. Vitoria is supposedly a basketball mad city with a great fan base.
    That's awesome!

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