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Thread: NBA draft Collins

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by seacatfan View Post
    Not picking a fight with you Jazz. I'm pretty confident at this point you and I will never agree about Karno. But he is much more than just "entrenched" as the starter. Quite a few games this year he has clearly been the best player on the floor for the Zags. Others have had their moments including Collins and NWG. But Karno is a stud and absolutely deserving of his starting spot. If Collins should bump anyone out of a starting spot it should be JWIII and not Karno.
    NO ONE in college hoops clogs the lane like Karnowski! And his ability to stay vertical and out of foul trouble is uncanny......something Collins has not done to this point....but I do love the kids game. I hope we get him for 2 more years!

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickMick View Post
    One could argue that for all the same reasons Kevin Love was drafted, Karno should be considered as well.
    I saw Kevin Love play live several times in high school. He was a surprisingly explosive leaper, given his bulk at that age. Much more athletic than Karno.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by maynard g krebs View Post
    I saw Kevin Love play live several times in high school. He was a surprisingly explosive leaper, given his bulk at that age. Much more athletic than Karno.
    Love is a Power Forward in the NBA. Karno is, or would be, a center exclusively.

    No doubt that Love can leap better. He has much less bulk to propel himself up with. With respect to a rebound leading into an outlet pass into transition, Love was one of the best I have ever seen at the college level. With respect to kick out passes from the post in the context of half court offense, Karno is equally outstanding, good enough for the pro level (although his rebounding probably isn't). It isn't even fair to compare their passing ability because they were asked to do different things (although this isn't absolute because there is some diversity involved). Love is a better rebounder and much more inclined to follow it up with his own score (relative to Karno) on the offensive end, or feed the outlet in transition on the defensive end. Karno is more apt to receive a post entry pass and kick it out following the double team, or score on an isolated defender if not double teamed.

    So yes, their games are different. What I do find very comparable is court awareness and basketball IQ. This is why I believe, and what I meant by, Karno should be considered similarly to Love.
    I miss Mike Hart

  4. #29
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    Karno has really stepped up his game this year. He's playing better than ever and I'll admit to underrating his ability before this year. With a healthy Shem, playing like this, the Zags would have made the final four last year. I truly hope he makes the NBA.

    That being said, he's no Kevin Love. Three time Oregon State POY. National POY as a senior. A man amongst boys even as a freshman in HS. One very good year at UCLA and now NBA all star and World Champ. He was bigger, more coordinated and skilled than any other HS player when I watched him. Here is a link to a game vs Mater Dei. Love with his HS team that didn't have another D1 player on it (I think). And Mater Dei with at least 5 high D1 players. (Duke,UNC x2, Oregon, Arizona). http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...ei-Squad-1531/

    Back to the op. Collins has been everything that was advertised. I assume he'll go pro after his soph year. If he can get a guarantee from a team this year, I'd be nothing but happy for him.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23dpg View Post
    Karno has really stepped up his game this year. He's playing better than ever and I'll admit to underrating his ability before this year. With a healthy Shem, playing like this, the Zags would have made the final four last year. I truly hope he makes the NBA.

    That being said, he's no Kevin Love. Three time Oregon State POY. National POY as a senior. A man amongst boys even as a freshman in HS. One very good year at UCLA and now NBA all star and World Champ. He was bigger, more coordinated and skilled than any other HS player when I watched him. Here is a link to a game vs Mater Dei. Love with his HS team that didn't have another D1 player on it (I think). And Mater Dei with at least 5 high D1 players. (Duke,UNC x2, Oregon, Arizona). http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...ei-Squad-1531/

    Back to the op. Collins has been everything that was advertised. I assume he'll go pro after his soph year. If he can get a guarantee from a team this year, I'd be nothing but happy for him.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonbelzer/2016/06/24/2016-nba-draft-1st-round-rookie-salary-projections/#63a8047e3756


    A bottom of the first round this year would guarantee him approximately $2.5 million for his first two years. Let's say he waits a year and moves up to #8 in 2018, a number I've read in these forums. That would guarantee him $6 million over two years. Let's now say that a franchise says, "Zach, we're going to pick you up at #28 in the 2017 draft. Considering the money the NBA is handing out now, it might be in his best interest to get an early start on his professional career, i.e. take a lesser amount now, with the expectation he'll have a long career in the NBA. I'm no expert, but his footwork down low is pretty damn advanced.

    Journeyman players in the NBA are now getting $10 million (and more) a year, and the young man just turned 19.

    My stomach is churning...

  6. #31
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    I can't agree for the simple reason that if a team drafts him at number 8 that team is probably not very good and the team will have made a considerable investment. Both of these reasons will lead to much more playing time and far more opportunities to be successful in the NBA than a late pick. You cannot underestimate the value of opportunity in the NBA.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    I can't agree for the simple reason that if a team drafts him at number 8 that team is probably not very good and the team will have made a considerable investment. Both of these reasons will lead to much more playing time and far more opportunities to be successful in the NBA than a late pick. You cannot underestimate the value of opportunity in the NBA.
    I hope you're right. Would love to see him back next year, getting 25-30 mpg.

  8. #33
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    You need to factor in not just NBA salary but also endorsement opportunities. The lottery picks make a lot more bucks in endorsements than back end 1st rounders.

    Zach is making a mistake if he enters this year. He has a chance to be one of the best players in the nation next year in a much weaker draft. As someone else said, follow the example set by Sabonis.

  9. #34
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    As Collins's NBA stock is on the rise, could some of the basketball experts on the board give me the reason why Josh is considered an slam dunk NBA talent, but players like Landale and Mika are not? I'm an armchair fan and definitely not a talent evaluator. Josh is awesome and I hope he has a great NBA career. What sets him apart? Go Zags!

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    As Collins's NBA stock is on the rise, could some of the basketball experts on the board give me the reason why Josh is considered an slam dunk NBA talent, but players like Landale and Mika are not? I'm an armchair fan and definitely not a talent evaluator. Josh is awesome and I hope he has a great NBA career. What sets him apart? Go Zags!
    Mika... it is about size. At the next level he is a tweener. I hate that line of thinking, but that is how the NBA thinks. It is why Casey never got a shot... wasn't about ability but rather about size. Landale... not sure perhaps not as athletic as Zach. He is more of a pure post player, which isn't valued as much anymore at the next level. Zach has size, pure talent and an outside shot. He is the real deal.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    As Collins's NBA stock is on the rise, could some of the basketball experts on the board give me the reason why Josh is considered an slam dunk NBA talent, but players like Landale and Mika are not? I'm an armchair fan and definitely not a talent evaluator. Josh is awesome and I hope he has a great NBA career. What sets him apart? Go Zags!
    Age + Potential + Size. Zach's got oodles of room for development both in his game as well as physically. His ceiling is quite a bit higher though both Landale and Mika are impressive players.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by zagfan24 View Post
    Age + Potential + Size. Zach's got oodles of room for development both in his game as well as physically. His ceiling is quite a bit higher though both Landale and Mika are impressive players.
    Forgot age discrimination that is rampant in the NBA. Mika being a couple years older devalues his stock as well. Mind you... I love the way both these guys play and they SHOULD have an opportunity at the next level... but will likely not get it.
    "And Morrison? He did what All-Americans do. He shot daggers in the daylight and stole a win." - Steve Kelley (Seattle Times)

    "Gonzaga is a special place, with special people!" - Dan Dickau #21

    Foo me once shame on you, Foo me twice shame on me.

    2012 Foostrodamus - Foothsayer of Death

  13. #38
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    Age or not, ALL 3 will get a hard look. Zaxh surely will but his productions, fouling, etc are nowhere near what NB would like to ee. He needs some more college time. Landale and Mik are good college players. Mika more NBAish because he's got a whole host of things he can do. Shooting is just one of them.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongIslandZagFan View Post
    Mika... it is about size. At the next level he is a tweener. I hate that line of thinking, but that is how the NBA thinks. It is why Casey never got a shot... wasn't about ability but rather about size. Landale... not sure perhaps not as athletic as Zach.
    A long time ago, maybe the '80's?, Sports Illustrated did a long, in depth feature piece on one of the MAC teams, maybe Miamo Ohio or somebody like that. Writer traveled w/ the team on bus trips etc. MAC was pretty good in those days. Anyway, one of the coaches in the league was quoted as saying that the difference between a MAC player and a Big Ten player was two inches.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Vulture View Post
    I haven't seen Collins listed among the Top 50 players this year but it is a loaded draft class per scouts/executives. I would imagine that he comes back for his Sophomore year and then goes pro. In fact, I'd say it's 90%+ that he stays this year and less than 50% that he stays past next year.
    I think this is right. He's just not ready, but I don't think they'll be any doubt a year from now. Wish he would stay for 3,
    but the way it is these days I just don't see it. Hope he finishes school at GU though. Way down the line that'll count for a lot.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaCoyote View Post
    I think this is right. He's just not ready, but I don't think they'll be any doubt a year from now. Wish he would stay for 3,
    but the way it is these days I just don't see it. Hope he finishes school at GU though. Way down the line that'll count for a lot.
    Won't happen. He will go this year or next. I'm hoping for next. Will cheer for him either way.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZagsObserver View Post
    Won't happen. He will go this year or next. I'm hoping for next. Will cheer for him either way.
    Ditto....but hope to see him and NWG return for another elite run!

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