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Thread: Smoke and Mirrors

  1. #1
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    Default Smoke and Mirrors

    Go figure. Go 9-2 in non-league against some good competition and then do a face plant against WCC bottom dwellers.

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    Coaching??? Lotta talent on this team! In this game however, there was a marked difference in three point shooting. You would expect the home team to shoot better on its own floor? If you were Pacific, however, you may note you got homered by the refs as there was a big discrepancy in the free throw numbers!

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    I am just so stunned and sad about this....I sat in my seat for several minutes trying to "handle" it.....its like following the WSU football team...the ups, the downs, the uncertainty....

    but I'm also very upset, not at the players, they played hard....

    mistakes?..sure..that is part of the game....

    but my rant is over basically 4 things...

    1. this petty/silly unwarranted campaign against JB....didn't get the start yesterday, got pulled within very quickly in the first quarter.....if they want to destroy her confidence they're doing a bang up job.
    ......other players can throw the ball away, or fumble it away, and they stay in....but Jill needs to get punished and then get lectured by Craig.....

    2. LS on paper had a good game, but it does not tell the whole story.....turnovers, throwing the ball away, not getting the offense set up......why she is getting so many minutes, especially following the game on Thursday is beyond me...I honestly don't know where she got 5 assists....

    3. WHY take Zhane out, after scoring several points.....and why not have in there at the end?.......its baffling.....I know they put Mak in but Mak never even touched the ball in the last 15 secs...

    4.I do not understand why our offense is so stifled.....we need to PASS the ball way up the court and try to take advantage of a lagging defense....instead we throw away the opportunity.....
    ....I think if we could get the ball into a shooters hand well before she is surrounded by the other team, we could score better....and what happens when fast breaks result in points....the defense would be rushing up the court to prevent that, opening up our players to get more defensive rebounds....

    Heather Bowman and Haiden and Shaq were at the game....too bad it had to be another bitter game ending...

    LF said on her radio talk show that YES the coaches were focusing of last minute shots but apparently, they need to go back to the drawing board...


    This game was on the coaches....again....its becoming a habit.....



































    game again is on the coaches....

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    I don't think its confidence busting just against Jill, I don't see confidence from other as well, could it be a Military mentally, bust them down and then build them up your way. Doesn't make much sense, it's just a game, make it fun and praise all that is good, good thinks usually happen when you don't take things to seriously.

    Feel sorry for the coaches, has to be a lot of pressure for them when jobs are on the line. There's probable a reason KG took his top assistances with him, to bad we couldn't have hung on to more of them , would have made it easier to keep the ball rolling.

    Watched the replay and usually come away with a different take than watching live. Sometimes balls take a bad bounce, but overall if we could get better looks for our shots I think % would go up, a few more shots falling and the game looks way different.

    Also don't understand LS getting so many minutes, but worse yet is a offence that is dribble dribble instead of pass pass pass. Sometimes I think that LS would be a better 2 guard than a 1, if we had two guards that could be used interchangeable based on who was guarding them the offence would have more options. Disappointed that ES, ET and others can't penetrate the seams and make more happen. Passing it inside when posts have two defenders collapsed on them make it very hard to get clean shots inside, a few outside shots falling would sure help.

    I don't blame all on the coaches, usually a 10pt advantage for home court, even/even coaching usually balances things out. When one coach is clearly more experienced it probable makes a 10pt difference. Can't this difference be made up by better play.

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    Once again, most of the comments on the offensive side of the ball.

    Yes LS obviously did not get the memo on the color of jersey's the ladies were wearing yesterday, although to be fair, the vast majority of her mistakes occurred in the first 15 minutes. Although since she is shooting 15% or so from 3-point land, why she continues to shoot these does not make sense.

    I am not offended by the benching of JB. She needs to learn that when you are double and triple teamed, you don't take the ball up particularly with a scoop shot. Sure you get some fouls, but just as often the ball is blocked. If your double teamed, throw the ball back out. JB still does not play good defense, enough said. If she is not scoring, she is costing you points on the other end, that is why she was pulled in the first quarter. The last score for Pacific was a fast break with Barta trailing (jogging) she did not get in front, she did not run directly behind the player with her arms up (the pass could not have been made) and as per usual she fouled the player from behind without interrupting the shot. The last play was a highlight of JB's lack of defensive effectiveness.

    Still don't understand why "Z" is not getting many minutes. Sure she was 0-3 but all of her shots went around the rim and rimmed out (no air balls - are you listening all guards #1-#3). She does not bring the ball down to prepare for a shot where it can be blocked or swiped (Barta & EW particularly). When the shots are not falling you need someone who can get open and shoot the 8-12 footer in traffic (Kiara and "Z").

    Despite all or our offensive maladies yesterday, that is not why we lost the game. Just like the Northwestern game, the ladies put their heads down and worked their way back to a 9 point lead in the 3rd period and finished the 3rd quarter with a 5 point lead despite most of LS's turnovers, lack of offense and poor shooting.

    We lost this game because despite having a 5 point lead, playing at home with the crowd energy behind you and you having the momentum going into the fourth quarter, you allowed Pacific to score 24 points in the quarter - that's a 96 point per game rate. Yes they hit a one or two contested 3s but they also hit a couple of uncontested 3s, lay-ups and put backs. Whether the girls were tired or whatever, just like the Pepperdine game, when the chips were down, Pacific wanted the game more. They out worked, out hustled and out wanted the Lady Zags yesterday and it ruined a very good comeback.

    As I have stated most of this season, if you are not going to play good, consistent defense for 4 quarters, this team will loose most of the games that they do not shoot very well. So far in the conference schedule, I am 2 - 0 and the Lady Zags are 0 -2.

    O'K coach, pressure is on. The next two games are at home and you need to get it turned around right now. Status Quo is not working. The teams coming in next week are better than the teams we lost to this week. We have no more time to act like things are alright. What are YOU going to do to change things up for next week.

    Go Luck Ladies, I think you are going to need it.

    ZagDad

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    Section16 - I think the foul shots were very misleading.

    Pacific got away with muggings on the point guards as well as the #2's, most of the night without the fouls being called. Hand checks and hip checks on the perimeter were rarely called.

    I don't blame the refs very often and I certainly don't blame them for the loss, but GU could easily have shot twice the number of foul shots they did and it would not have been "homered". Pacific earned all of their fouls and many more that were not called.

    ZagDad

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    I want to apologize if I come across as negative....my NY's vow is to be more positive...since "fan" means fanatic and being a good fan means supporting....

    its easy to point the what ifs, etc...

    I think the girls played hard with Pacific....from my vantage point I'd watch their 3's seem to be off and yet, that went in.....

    I do wish that we had a little different mix in for the last shot but I don't blame LS for that.....we grabbed the lead and we should have held it....it should never come down to a last desperation shot...

    anyway, in other news interesting that WSU women beat Oregon today....interesting that OSU beat the Wash. women...

    the other interesting thing is that I believe a post player recruit was probably at that game....she had a little posting on the Zag womens FB page....I hope she was impressed with home crowd and our energy...perhaps Haiden,Shaq,and Heather talked Gonzaga up for her....

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    Zagdad....I was puzzled yesterday when she was pulled very early and Craig came down to sit by her and talk with her.....that after not starting the game before...certainly didn't see anything that JB would have done that early in the game to deserve that.....its not like everyone on the team was playing great ....

  9. #9

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    FYI. JB did not start the Pepperdine game because she missed practice. Not sure what the reason was.

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    Watched the OSU / UW women's game today... OSU was up at halftime by around 25.

    You always wonder why good teams like GU and UW have games where nothing goes down... And it becomes not just a player problem, but a team problem.

    I started getting concerned with the Lady Zags the second half of the Colgate came... Then the Pepperdine game.
    I have seen what happened Saturday happen with the Lady Zags in past years... where they lost an away game that they should have won. Then come home and can't buy a bucket. And yes there are reasons a plenty...

    Attitude adjustment... Another challenge. Maybe they need to watch the first quarter of the WSU game and part of the NW game and talk about the positive things they did. Ask the players why and who they are playing for...

    Time to put the fun and rewards back in the game.

    Go Zags!!

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    Since others brought up the subject it's fair game. I watched OSU-UW today. Strange game. OSU is known for stingy defense, they had Plum all kinds of frustrated, shots weren't dropping. OSU was on fire. Up 44-22 at the half, 53-26 about halfway thru the 3rd quarter...then a complete flip flop. Beavs went cold and UW caught on fire. Got it down to a one possession game but ran out of time, 73-70 final. If there were 2 more minutes on the clock UW probably would've won. Plum with 22 on an off night. Osahor is amazing, there isn't another player like her in college bball. The real difference maker though was Fr. PG McDonald, she really got the turn around started. Wiese for OSU led all scorers with 26, continued to add to her total for most career 3 pointers made in Pac 12 history. OSU was getting good contributions from a bunch of players early, but at the end it was pretty much just Wiese that kept them barely clinging to their lead.

    Didn't see any of WSU-UO except some grainy highlights. Ducks are falling fast since Ionescu has been out with an injury. Good win for the Cougs, road wins are gonna be tough to come by in the Pac 12 this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag on the run View Post
    FYI. JB did not start the Pepperdine game because she missed practice. Not sure what the reason was.


    thx for the info....

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    Quote Originally Posted by sylean View Post
    Zagdad....I was puzzled yesterday when she was pulled very early and Craig came down to sit by her and talk with her.....that after not starting the game before...certainly didn't see anything that JB would have done that early in the game to deserve that.....its not like everyone on the team was playing great ....
    My guess, and it is strictly a guess, is that she was pulled immediately after she tried a scope shot against 3 opposing players. If there are 3 players guarding you, there are two lady zags open somewhere on the court. The best shot is to get the ball back out to one of the open zags, not try the 3-on-1 shot. This is simply a learning experience.

    The top notch recruits are used to being the "go to" person on their high school and maybe AAU team. When you get to D-1 basketball, basketball is a team game that requires the players to play as a team. Unless your name is Kentucky or maybe Duke, NC or Kansas, putting 5 "individuals" on the court is not the key to success. I think that several of the girls are actually "trying" too hard and not trusting their fellow team members. Slow down a touch, take a breath, survey the entire court. Several times, on defensive switches we get two or three people switching not one, leaving people wide open. Several times the guards were poaching toward the key leaving the player they were supposed to be guarding wide open. Drive the middle, the guard pinches a little more throw the ball out to the wide open guard for the 3. There are numerous examples of this type of play on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball.

    To improve, the players must first make sure they are each doing their job and not trying to provide additional help. If everybody simply did their job, and played team ball, the team would be fine. If somebody is unable to do their job, let the coaches make the switch of players or the switch to a different defense.

    Even with last year's abysmal season, a victory over GU means a lot to our WCC counterparts. A win in the Kennel means even more. After last year, the lady zags have lost the mystic that came from wearing the GU uniform and playing in the kennel. There is blood in the water and the sharks are circling. Are the coaches and players going to fight or are they simply going to accept their fate. Last week's games do not bode well for the lady zags. Thankfully, the losses were to teams that most likely will be bottom dwellers, so we need to start our win streak on Thursday and let the rest of the WCC know that the championship trophy is destined to once again reside in Spokane.

    Zag Up Ladies,

    ZagDad

  14. #14

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    When are these coaches going to try something other then es, she can't buy a bucket the last few games, then put her back in at the end of the game after templton scores 5 straight points, absolutely blew my mind, try something else you have nothing to lose, I see 3 girls on the bench I would be playing over her(mak, temp, Chandler). This team needs someone who can drive to the basket and finish, or dish, not sure who that is, but you can't just pass the ball around the premeter and throw it inside we're seeing alot of the same play as last year but were healthy, coaches have no excuses this year!!

  15. #15

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    Makenlee Williams we need you to light it up, time to heat it up Microwave. Your in the WCC its time to get hot. Believe in your shots they will start falling.

    Jill Barta lets get back to the good shooting percentage this game, and keep getting to the free throw line. If they are all caving on you find the open player, guide us back to the win column.

    Kiarra Kudron keep shooting good percentages show the Dons we are more Gritty than them, get to the free throw line.

    Lets get their bigs in foul trouble.

    Elle Tinkle let get those charges on their bigs, get those steals and lets get some easy buckets.

  16. #16
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    Very disappointing WCC play

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    Well 2017 is here and I was planning on being very positive this season but now does not feel like the time.

    ES - I have never been on the ES bandwagon and, to this minute do not understand why she has been granted a prominent spot for what seems like forever.

    Mak: Needs to pick it up a bunch. Our coaches look foolish so far for bringing in a player for two seasons on the bench to play 15 minutes and score 5.7 a game. And I won't even get into the issues on the defensive side of the ball.

    Emma W. - let her get completely healthy. She has proven herself before so it will return.

    LS - Playing point for the Zags is not a right but our coaches seem to have made it in this case. seems like there would be PR issues should our coaches choose another direction.

    ET - Still love her but leadership needs to emerge as we progress. Status quo will not help this team.

    ZR - Exciting but still raw. I can only guess that her maturity as a bb player is slower than the coaches have hoped. Defensive issues remain.

    KK - She has been a bright spot for me this season.

    JB - Another bright spot at times but now that conference starts she will have to remember that everyone is going to make her a priority and her game will have to adapt... and maybe a little defense would help the cause.

    ZT - Played too much last year and minutes are now more realistic of her performance. IMO she is having a difficult time adjusting to a lesser role. Looks unhappy.

    JL has played like a freshman but I have high hopes for the future.

    GC - Hard to grade at this point.

    CS - I dont know if this makes any sense but I would not say her performance has been that impressive but I would like to see her play a more prominent role and see the roles of some others diminished.

    Coaches - IMO we are in for an interesting second half. They seemed trapped in the "same ol, same ol", pattern that has consistently shown to be less than acceptable. To be frank, from what i see they do not have a handle on where to go next.

    TEAM - I don't put a lot of stock in the out of confrence play. We, like many others, and for good reason, play far too many weak sisters to see where the team is at. I will say it again...I think there are chemistry issues on this team again this season. I also believe that where there are chemistry issues there are leadership issues and where there are leadership issues the coaching staff better pick up on it and act. If it is true that a player misses practice and does not start that may not be enough. Maybe street clothes would send a better message to every one involved. it would sure show them who is in charge and I think we need a bit of that.

    other than the above....all is good.

    Happy New Year everyone.

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    agree with most of your points.....I too think our pg position is still not firm....maybe they're playing LS too much...maybe less playing time will increase her energy when she does play....

    per the radio talk show tonite just some scattered information....

    Grace C has been out of her boot for a couple of days....her playing time return depends on her pain level.....not sure what her injury was, but LF seems to think she's getting better...

    LF had a health crisis with her family.....all better now....but it happened early on New Year's Day so it has not been a good week for her......she seemed genuinely discouraged about the losses.....she says Pepperdine has always played them tough as well as Pacific and that Desiree Finne saves her best games for us.....she has worked with the posts and the guards re: rebounding importance.... she states she is stressing with the team that the Zags always have a target on their back...

    She is very happy with Zhane's play, as am I, but still working on conditioning...

    She says she is not even sure why she got a technical, but has emailed that question to the league.....she states that particular ref is "sensitive"....

    Kiara was there and says she has worked very very hard over the last summer to get better....states she was not very happy about redshirting but now is thrilled because she's getting her masters and her play, IMO , has been terrific and she feels good about her game.....talked about being more talkative on the court and encouraging other players to do so also especially in tight games like Pacific.....hopes to play somewhere for a while after graduation...

    Emma W there also.....states she feels she is well past 90% back to normal, and doesn't think about past injuries anymore.....

    LF likes it when the crowd is loud both on offense and defense...

    coach Jordan's wife had their baby last Wednesday....

    that's all I can remember.....lol

  19. #19
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    Ladyzaga:

    It is nice to have you back to posting. I think you have summed up many of the issues this team is suffering from very well.

    Why not mix it up significantly this week and change the line-up to something like this: Point - LS but pull her immediately if she starts turning the ball over. Put Elle at the 2 guard fir senior leadership, JB at the #3 spot. Get her out of the middle and put her where her shot will be less likely to be blocked and she will definitely have a height advantage. For the #4/#5 consider either a KK/EW or ZP/KK as starting. We need to shake something up and shore up our defense. Putting JB out of the middle would certainly make our opponents change on the fly.

    Anyway, no hope LF would consider any such shake-up, but at least it would be a change.

    ZagDad

  20. #20

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    Ladyzaga so what do you see as the PR issue with LS? Elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about perhaps?

    Sylean Emma Wolfram says she is 90% wow not playing like it. This is her Junior year what is she waiting for, been a huge disappointment so far. One of our problems is no dominant post player this year. San Francisco has a wide body at center it would be nice if Emma Wolfram could step up to the challenge.

    Their goes Lisa Fortnier making excuses again, oh we lost because everyone plays better against us. Your team is sucking wind the first two games of WCC thats why you lost!!!!!

    I agree with ZAG Dad mix the lineup some shake things up. And Coach for Jimmy Creepers sake pretty please have LS stop shooting 3s!!!!!

    Its unanimous opinion so far by all known posters that Laura Stockton should get less minutes, and the other guards should get more playing time. As stated by others already the ZAG guys seem to have the bench much more heavily involved. The women need to do the same, then the women would not take time off while on the court.

    We could use Chandler Smith and Mak height to get physical with their 5'10, 5,'11 players. Change it up coach when your 0-2 against the two worst teams in the league, you need to shake it up.

    Prediction we lose to the San Francisco if Laura Stockton plays more than 25 minutes. We win if 4 subs have 15 minutes playing time and one or two subs play 20 minutes.
    Last edited by ZAGS ATTACK BASKET; 01-03-2017 at 03:09 PM.

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    I've been sitting on the sidelines on this discussion, but am now ready to chime in.

    First, one correction ZAB - EW is a redshirt junior.

    re LS - I don't think the issue is PR. It is an unwavering commitment to the chosen starting PG. Historically consistent, including under Kelly. While others get pulled immediately after a mistake, the starting PG du jour does not. I have mixed feelings about this. Coach Few has talked about this concept with NWG - allowing some TOs in the interest of taking some high reward risks. Unfortunately, I think Coach Fortier may take this too far. Last year it was GS. She continually dribbled into traffic until she was trapped and had no where to go and no options. And no consequences from the coaches. And the ill-advised passes with no consequences. When LS came in, then, she did not replicate that and we loved her. Now this year, she is the one doing exactly the same thing, with no consequences. This must be coached behavior.

    But I don't want to be too hard on LS, because I still love her and all the Lady Zags. But, I don't think she is enough better than CS, or even JL, to merit 38-40 minutes per game. Frankly, I think if CS was given the same unwavering commitment, you would be amazed at what you would see. And the rotation with fresh legs would be highly effective. Look at the men. No one is routinely playing more than 30-32 minutes.

    Court vision - how many times have our guards brought the ball up the court with JB, KK or EW standing alone under the basket and calling from the ball and it goes unnoticed or ignored? This is driving me crazy.

    LS said in an interview after last week's games that they cannot assume that they will win just because their uniforms say "Gonzaga." That statement stunned me, because it indicated that may have been an underlying mindset, but it also gave me hope. Perhaps after the 0-2 start, the team will internalize the need to battle every day and every game. I'm looking forward to seeing how they do this week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaglaw View Post
    I don't want to be too hard on LS, because I still love her and all the Lady Zags. But, I don't think she is enough better than CS, or even JL, to merit 38-40 minutes per game. Frankly, I think if CS was given the same unwavering commitment, you would be amazed at what you would see. And the rotation with fresh legs would be highly effective. Look at the men. No one is routinely playing more than 30-32 minutes. Court vision - how many times have our guards brought the ball up the court with JB, KK or EW standing alone under the basket and calling from the ball and it goes unnoticed or ignored? This is driving me crazy.
    Please excuse my edit of your post...wrote the following in March, October and posting again today...

    "Chandler Smith is my starting point guard until she proves she can't handle it....easy decision after watching the returning guards who played last season...she is a superior player, bigger, faster, more physical...most here think Stockton is the answer....unless her game has gone to pieces I think it is Smith....with Stockton behind her"

    Smith needs more PT...

    Go!! Las Zagas!!!

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    Completely agree that the team would greatly benefit from Chandler being no on the court at least 20 minutes a game. She is complete player and handles the point well. Having LS and CS in together for extended time sharing the point duties would be interesting. She needs to start over ES period.

    I also like the suggestion of trying JB at the wing. She needs to be on the court.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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    nice comments Zaglaw......we all love our players....
    .
    Your comment about bringing the ball up the court is right on......our players are fairly fast, fast enough that we should be streaking up the court frequently and getting easy shots.....we have enough of a bench to replace players that get tired from the uptempo game....but its something we must do....it was our downfall at Pepperdine....if you watch that game we never once got it going and we would get the ball to the top of the key and we would never have a drive....we'd pass left and then right.....it was ridiculous....I really though LS would get the ball down the court fast because she showed that last year at times....

    what I really want is to see Sloot pass all the way up the court to a streaking Kayla getting an easy layin....I'm not asking too much.....lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sylean View Post
    what I really want is to see Sloot pass all the way up the court to a streaking Kayla getting an easy layin....I'm not asking too much.....lol.
    Oh, the memories! Just finished reading the chapter on Sloot in Bud Withers' book "Glory Hounds." If you don't have the book, get it. It covers both the men's and women's ascensions.

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