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Thread: Anyone else notice Few went with Zach and Kill instead of Shem and JWIII at the end?

  1. #26
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    Fews quote was he needed "young legs" on the floor at the end --it made sense and I am glad Few had them in.

  2. #27
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    Said before. We will not get the most out of Karno until he sheds some weight. That's not dissing' him. He's worked hard to get where he is and he may have had to do other things to get where he is, I just don't know.

    The other thing, Collins going directly NBA isn't the worst thing that can happen to the program. He came here (among many others) b/c, as the TV guys kept noting, we develop players. That invites many other 5 star athletes w/ NBA eyes. They have options out west, not just AZ, UW, etc. Suddenly, we're in that conversation.

    Right, Jazz;?
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  3. #28
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    [QUOTE=thespywhozaggedme;1250622]He chose the true frosh over the vets to close out the game; shows how much confidence he has in them.

    Matchups and situational basketball. If it was exactly like you say Collins would have been in for the last play of the game, not Williams. It's amazing how many conclusions we can come to 6 games into the year of a team that will likely look different another ten games in.

  4. #29
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    Karno does so many things to disrupt the other team. He may not get the blocks but...shots are changed. They can't just drive into him and get the call.

    Collins is great but he is not Shem. They both do things well and differently. We will see, as the season progresses and Karno gets back in shape, which one is the better player.
    It's not funny.

  5. #30
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    If you read AztecMesa, the SDSU message board, they talk about our zone like it belongs in bball lore...

    They feel its the best looking zone they've ever faced.

    Problem is...watching the replay...it was Tillie and Collins manning that 'impenetrable' zone and creating deflections, TO's, missed shots.

    We saw it again the next game, and the next...

    Then, we went to Orlando. We definitely zoned vs Florida and vs Iowa St. But not with Tillie nor Collins, rather Karno and JW3. Killian and Zach were strickly used in M2M situations.

    Makes we wonder if Coach Few noticed zone was working in previous games, but wonder if he recalls the lineups? No joke.

    I spent my lazy Sunday watching replays of Florida, Bryant, SDSU, and today's game -- my only reasoning was to protect Karno's conditioning and M2M match-ups given small lineup, but can't figure out why we used it vs Florida.

    The effective and scary and elite zone was Tillie/Collins, yet since went to a largely ineffective Karnowski/J3 zone.

    Just read a couple comments about SDSU and how much they feared the "freshman" zone (which we never saw in Orlando):

    http://aztecmesa.proboards.com/threa...s-hoetzel-pope

  6. #31
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    Eyeball test. Collins and Tillie do just about everything better than the starters.

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    I would love to see GU play it's 3-2 zone with Collins, Tillie, WIII, NWG and Perkins. That would be a pretty formidable zone for opponents to attack and on offence, Tillie would play the "3"/SF...think this would work and each of the players can punish the opposition from behind the arc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Eyeball test. Collins and Tillie do just about everything better than the starters.
    Agree on many levels, yet why scrap the zone with them (when it worked so well)?

    I realize they have 'young legs' as Few put it, but to get cute with the zone with Karno and J3 isn't working nearly as well.

    I thought this was pretty much decided in Games 1 thru 4, but alas, it wasnt meant to me. Karno works better M2M vs most teams. While the length and quickness of Killian Collins works terrific with our zone.

    Had to be an anomaly given match-ups, right?

  9. #34
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    Team ball --taking turns wearing down the opposition --all have their strengths and weaknesses ----glad we have all the guys working together to get the wins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogozags View Post
    I would love to see GU play it's 3-2 zone with Collins, Tillie, WIII, NWG and Perkins. That would be a pretty formidable zone for opponents to attack and on offence, Tillie would play the "3"/SF...think this would work and each of the players can punish the opposition from behind the arc...
    A great five. Love it.

  11. #36
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    Default Hey, it worked . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Zagdawg View Post
    Fews quote was he needed "young legs" on the floor at the end --it made sense and I am glad Few had them in.
    I think this sums it up.

    Like everyone else, I was surprised that Few subbed out more experienced players for less experienced, which seems counter to his usual M.O. I figured he must have thought the fresher legs would be quicker to defend/deny the ball, plus he had a plan to burn as much clock as possible before committing the last non-shooting foul, which was crucial to shortening the time available for final shot. I'm assuming he trusted that ZC and KT had the agility, quickness and length to give GU the best chance of burning off a few seconds on the possession before Zags committed the strategic foul (I think it was SM who did the deed).

    In the end, the team on the floor executed as well as could be expected and ISU couldn't get dribble penetration or an uncontested outside shot (or draw a foul) in either sequence during the final seconds (even KT did a nice job contesting the three w/o fouling -- from his position, he couldn't have know that shot clock had expired).

    Looks like the right line-up was in there (although I have confidence that Shem and JW could have done the job as well -- damn, we're deep)

  12. #37
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    It is the better front court from my perspective.

    After Williams bricked the two free throws, I knew he wasn't going to be part of the finish.
    I miss Mike Hart

  13. #38

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    Just a quick observation about the zone. I noticed that JWIII was standing about 17-18 ft out on the wing, even when no one was on his side. As a result, Iowa State got some weak side offensive rebounds because he couldn't get in quickly enough to box out. The coaches will get that sorted out, if they choose to use the zone. I love the new guys, the depth...it wears teams down that aren't as deep.
    Any win is a good win!

  14. #39
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    Coach knew they'd go for he three so Collins and Tillie provided the best length, quickness to the perimeter. Very impressive coaching IMO.
    Go Zags!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjm720 View Post
    Coach knew they'd go for he three so Collins and Tillie provided the best length, quickness to the perimeter. Very impressive coaching IMO.
    Great experience for those two freshman, too. That's what OOC games should be for, developing players.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldGoatZagFan View Post
    Just a quick observation about the zone. I noticed that JWIII was standing about 17-18 ft out on the wing, even when no one was on his side. As a result, Iowa State got some weak side offensive rebounds because he couldn't get in quickly enough to box out. The coaches will get that sorted out, if they choose to use the zone. I love the new guys, the depth...it wears teams down that aren't as deep.
    Any win is a good win!
    nice observation.

    one more reason our newly utilized zone should primarily be Tillie/Collins down low, unless its for foul trouble.

    watch the SDSU game. Karno/JW3 did not work -- for rebounding or when they penetrated and kicked it out.

    we're so deep, I honestly feel our staff thought it was Karno/JW3 running the zone in Spokane. Got confused.

  17. #42
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    I was not surprised. Few has 8 very good players this year. He has been able to use these guys in many different ways, After I first saw the one early on in the first few games, I stated in one of the threads that I believed Few would use the zone a lot this year. IT WORKS BEST WITH THE 5 HE HAD IN AT THE END of the game last night. It is a real good zone imo. For me it's not about who's better, but who's better, for the team, in each game and in each situation. Last night Collins made our last 4 points, and the 3 pointer was HUGE. IMO, between our 4 post players,Tillie is our best defender.
    Go Zags!!! The Best Is Yet To Come!!!

  18. #43
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    I also noticed that JW was on the all tournament team...

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdelmar View Post
    Eyeball test. Collins and Tillie do just about everything better than the starters.
    Except for the physical end of playing the post, but that will come. No one covers the paint like Karno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasZagFan View Post
    Except for the physical end of playing the post, but that will come. No one covers the paint like Karno.
    That first half with Karno finding the open shooter was about as good as I have ever (?) seen Gonzaga play .....

  21. #46
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    Eyeball test. Collins and Tillie do just about everything better than the starters.
    Karno finding the open shooter.....he's the best low post passing big man in college basketball, period, at doing this. In fact, he's the best low post passer I've seen in college basketball in quite some time. The way he is able to find open three point shooters, cutters and power forwards beneath the hoop is truly special off of double and triple teams. When Gonzaga's 3 point shooters are hot, North Carolina might be the only offense in college ball that's more lethal, because Karno is almost impossible to stop one on one once he establishes position. The only worry with him is referees calling cheap fouls on him....particularly when he is attempting to post up in transition and the other guy flops.

    Tillie and Collins are freshmen folks. They will hit a freshman brick wall and make a lot of mistakes as this season goes along. It has happened with every GU freshman. Even lottery picks like Olynyk and Sabonis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    Tillie and Collins are freshmen folks. They will hit a freshman brick wall and make a lot of mistakes as this season goes along. It has happened with every GU freshman. Even lottery picks like Olynyk and Sabonis.
    Excellent point.

    Usually happens late December or early in Conference play.

    Possibly associated with talented Frosh proving themselves early, and the Staff adding more to their plate as the season progresses.

    The first month and half are primarily base sets, playing on instincts, etc.

    They usually breakthrough again by Season's end. That said, Freshman are more and more advanced and ready to play each and every year.
    “You’ve got to hit the Zag standard.”

    And if it happens, those rites of Autumn become the rites of Spring.

  23. #48
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    For the last 8.8 sec of the game it was Williams and Tillie along with Melson, Williams-Goss and Perkins.

  24. #49
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    Default Depends on The Game

    [QUOTE=CDC84;1251253]Karno finding the open shooter.....he's the best low post passing big man in college basketball, period, at doing this. In fact, he's the best low post passer I've seen in college basketball in quite some time. The way he is able to find open three point shooters, cutters and power forwards beneath the hoop is truly special off of double and triple teams. When Gonzaga's 3 point shooters are hot, North Carolina might be the only offense in college ball that's more lethal, because Karno is almost impossible to stop one on one once he establishes position.


    Karnowski is very good at passing out of the double team. He is also very good at establishing position against undersized or average athletes. But, there will be games like Florida where the opposition will not have to double because they have an athlete that can wait on the floor until Karnowski releases his shot and still get to the ball because of Shem's lack of hops. Both Collins and Tillie's athleticism will allow them to shoot over the top of an athletic defender with a better chance of converting and they have the added skill of being able to shoot all the way out to the three point line. On the defensive end, Karnowski is a definite force because of his sheer size. His biggest limitation is the inability to rebound outside of the space he occupies when the shot goes up. Both Tillie and Collins have shown the ability to rebound outside their area.

    Bottom line, Karnowski is a very good college basketball player. He will be especially dominant in WCC play. Killie and Collins are still learning and are already on a par with Shem in most aspects of the game. In a short time they will surpass him because they have athletic skills that Karnowski will never possess and the added benefit of being able to stretch the floor on offense with their shooting and shrink the floor on defense by being able to cover more ground in a quicker fashion than Shem.

    To forestall any backlash, Shem is one of my favorites. His sheer guts to come back from his injury should endear him to all Zag fans. Plus, he seems to me to be a perfect fit in Coach Few's clubhouse. Very polite young man and a fierce competitor.

    One more thing, since you mentioned Carolina. I'm hoping the coaching staff realizes the opportunity to run with their big men. If you have watched Carolina over the years, they always have big men that make rim runs. I think Collins has the ability to do that. He's athletic enough and has very good hands to catch a long pass that results in a layup or dunk.

  25. #50
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    [QUOTE=Markburn1;1251320]
    Quote Originally Posted by CDC84 View Post
    Karno finding the open shooter.....he's the best low post passing big man in college basketball, period, at doing this. In fact, he's the best low post passer I've seen in college basketball in quite some time. The way he is able to find open three point shooters, cutters and power forwards beneath the hoop is truly special off of double and triple teams. When Gonzaga's 3 point shooters are hot, North Carolina might be the only offense in college ball that's more lethal, because Karno is almost impossible to stop one on one once he establishes position.


    Karnowski is very good at passing out of the double team. He is also very good at establishing position against undersized or average athletes. But, there will be games like Florida where the opposition will not have to double because they have an athlete that can wait on the floor until Karnowski releases his shot and still get to the ball because of Shem's lack of hops. Both Collins and Tillie's athleticism will allow them to shoot over the top of an athletic defender with a better chance of converting and they have the added skill of being able to shoot all the way out to the three point line. On the defensive end, Karnowski is a definite force because of his sheer size. His biggest limitation is the inability to rebound outside of the space he occupies when the shot goes up. Both Tillie and Collins have shown the ability to rebound outside their area.

    Bottom line, Karnowski is a very good college basketball player. He will be especially dominant in WCC play. Killie and Collins are still learning and are already on a par with Shem in most aspects of the game. In a short time they will surpass him because they have athletic skills that Karnowski will never possess and the added benefit of being able to stretch the floor on offense with their shooting and shrink the floor on defense by being able to cover more ground in a quicker fashion than Shem.

    To forestall any backlash, Shem is one of my favorites. His sheer guts to come back from his injury should endear him to all Zag fans. Plus, he seems to me to be a perfect fit in Coach Few's clubhouse. Very polite young man and a fierce competitor.

    One more thing, since you mentioned Carolina. I'm hoping the coaching staff realizes the opportunity to run with their big men. If you have watched Carolina over the years, they always have big men that make rim runs. I think Collins has the ability to do that. He's athletic enough and has very good hands to catch a long pass that results in a layup or dunk.
    Great post. More please!
    It is their time....their team...I just get to watch. - Bartruff1

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