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Thread: General Science Thread

  1. #401
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    Ha! Nice, Will.

    I forgot to mention, on the LIGO point. When the two black holes collapsed into each other, they released 3 solar masses, 3 suns, into the cosmos in one instant, as pure energy.

    if you have E=MC2, and "M" is 3 solar masses, getting multiplied by the speed of light, squared

    You're left with the energy our sun has used or ever could use in its lifetime, times 3, in one instant, it is so much energy that in that one instant, the black-hole collapse released more energy than everywhere else in the visible universe combined.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    I’m about halfway through.

    I don’t think they know where that electron is. Sounds like measuring differs in alternate universes. And the “Super Position might be any number of positions or no position at all. Fascinating.

    The philosophy and political aspects they speak of was a big surprise to me. I am astonished that scientists allow their fear of rejection get in the way of what they believe to be correct. How many advancements in understanding how the world works were thwarted because someone was afraid to upset Bohr. Or someone else.

    Will finish the discussion tomorrow evening.
    It's an honor to hear you'd listen on just a recommendation from me. Listening to a 90 minute conversation between these 2 guys - top of their fields - is fascinating IMO, and they're both kinda cool dudes, not nerdy, and good teachers.


    Here is a link to a more contemporary article the examines where things stand now on the collapse of the wave function, and the interaction with consciousness. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...about-reality/


    One thing we can be sure of, both physicists and philosophers are well-aware of the implications if it truly is that consciousness itself alters reality.

    Werner Heisenberg, among others, interpreted the mathematics to mean that reality doesn’t exist until observed. “The idea of an objective real world whose smallest parts exist objectively in the same sense as stones or trees exist, independently of whether or not we observe them ... is impossible,” he wrote. John Wheeler, too, used a variant of the double-slit experiment to argue that “no elementary quantum phenomenon is a phenomenon until it is a registered (‘observed,’ ‘indelibly recorded’) phenomenon.”

    BUT:


    But these experiments don’t constitute empirical evidence for such claims. In the double-slit experiment done with single photons, all one can do is verify the probabilistic predictions of the mathematics. If the probabilities are borne out over the course of sending tens of thousands of identical photons through the double slit, the theory claims that each photon’s wave function collapsed—thanks to an ill-defined process called measurement. That’s all
    Pretty big stakes. And as you noted, in that discussion, how the politics of this interpretation played out was fascinating, it scares just as many people as it does excite, if reality truly isn't "real" until a person sees it. Some physicists are excited about the more "Human-centered" view, some are repelled by it, the reductionists. Oh, and the leader of the reductionists was that scientist Einstein, so it's tough to write them off.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  3. #403
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    I haven't had time to watch it yet, but this is supposed to be a good 17 minute video on the making of the image: "In the Shadow of a Black Hole"

    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    It's an honor to hear you'd listen on just a recommendation from me. Listening to a 90 minute conversation between these 2 guys - top of their fields - is fascinating IMO, and they're both kinda cool dudes, not nerdy, and good teachers.


    Here is a link to a more contemporary article the examines where things stand now on the collapse of the wave function, and the interaction with consciousness. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...about-reality/


    One thing we can be sure of, both physicists and philosophers are well-aware of the implications if it truly is that consciousness itself alters reality.




    BUT:




    Pretty big stakes. And as you noted, in that discussion, how the politics of this interpretation played out was fascinating, it scares just as many people as it does excite, if reality truly isn't "real" until a person sees it. Some physicists are excited about the more "Human-centered" view, some are repelled by it, the reductionists. Oh, and the leader of the reductionists was that scientist Einstein, so it's tough to write them off.
    Forgive me for being simplistic, but isn't this question encapsulated in the age old "Does a falling tree make a sound in the woods if there is nobody there to hear it"?

    I admit I'm having trouble with getting my mind around the "super position" theory that allows for photons, electrons, etc. to be in two places at once. The photon thing is especially weird when they describe it as going through two slits at once and creating turbulent waves on the other side that either produce bright bands or darkness depending on the intersection of crests and troughs, all the while being the same photon.

    As for listening to your podcast recommendation, I am a curious sort. I wouldn't have except I value your judgement and that started on the basketball threads. When I found this thread, I read through the entire thing from beginning to where we are now and found a non judgmental approach to a subject that needlessly scares some folks. I hope more people participate here. There is something for everyone in this conversation.

  5. #405
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    So, here's something that's amusing to me.

    God is going through all the mathematical equations. Considering photons, waves, electrons, etc. Decides it's time to put it in practice. "Let there be light". Creates heaven and earth and all that goes with it. Reaches the sixth day and says to himself, "All this stuff is really cool but if I don't put a creature on earth with the capability of seeing it and reasoning what it means, reality will be limited to Me. I'm the only one that knows the answers to trees falling in the woods". So, he creates humanity and the quest for meaning follows.

    Kinda shows how my pea brain works. Haha


    I believe in the Catholic church. I also believe the Church has stifled scientific inquiry for a long time. The Church is just now coming around to opening hearts and minds to the incredible scientific complexity of our world. Just as the two scientists described the political suppression of scientific views, the Church wittingly or unwittingly did the same. Not so much anymore.


    I recently read a book entitled "Would You Baptize an Extraterrestial?" It's written by a couple of Jesuit scientists that are affiliated with the Vatican Observatory. It's fairly light reading but poses some interesting questions.

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    So, here's something that's amusing to me.

    God is going through all the mathematical equations. Considering photons, waves, electrons, etc. Decides it's time to put it in practice. "Let there be light". Creates heaven and earth and all that goes with it. Reaches the sixth day and says to himself, "All this stuff is really cool but if I don't put a creature on earth with the capability of seeing it and reasoning what it means, reality will be limited to Me. I'm the only one that knows the answers to trees falling in the woods". So, he creates humanity and the quest for meaning follows.

    Kinda shows how my pea brain works. Haha


    I believe in the Catholic church. I also believe the Church has stifled scientific inquiry for a long time. The Church is just now coming around to opening hearts and minds to the incredible scientific complexity of our world. Just as the two scientists described the political suppression of scientific views, the Church wittingly or unwittingly did the same. Not so much anymore.


    I recently read a book entitled "Would You Baptize an Extraterrestial?" It's written by a couple of Jesuit scientists that are affiliated with the Vatican Observatory. It's fairly light reading but poses some interesting questions.
    Thanks for the nice words about the thread, it is my favorite but lots of people contribute to it.

    As for having a hard time wrapping the mind around quantum mechanics, famous physicist Richard Fynman once said "If you think you understand Quantum Mechanics, you don't understand it." (Or something to that effect.)

    It is interesting, if one reads the Genesis description, it follows awfully close to how things evolved from the Big Bang.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    I haven't had time to watch it yet, but this is supposed to be a good 17 minute video on the making of the image: "In the Shadow of a Black Hole"



    By the way, one of the things that I missed in all the reporting, the reason they chose THIS black hole in that other galaxy, is that this one makes the massive one in the center of our solar system look puny.

    The black hole in the center of our galaxy is 4 million solar masses, the one in the picture is 6.5 BILLION solar masses. I told my daughter: "It is like 6.5 billion suns, stuffed into the size smaller than the dot on this "I" and she got this dazed look in her eyes.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    So, here's something that's amusing to me.

    God is going through all the mathematical equations. Considering photons, waves, electrons, etc. Decides it's time to put it in practice. "Let there be light". Creates heaven and earth and all that goes with it. Reaches the sixth day and says to himself, "All this stuff is really cool but if I don't put a creature on earth with the capability of seeing it and reasoning what it means, reality will be limited to Me. I'm the only one that knows the answers to trees falling in the woods". So, he creates humanity and the quest for meaning follows.

    Kinda shows how my pea brain works. Haha


    I believe in the Catholic church. I also believe the Church has stifled scientific inquiry for a long time. The Church is just now coming around to opening hearts and minds to the incredible scientific complexity of our world. Just as the two scientists described the political suppression of scientific views, the Church wittingly or unwittingly did the same. Not so much anymore.


    I recently read a book entitled "Would You Baptize an Extraterrestial?" It's written by a couple of Jesuit scientists that are affiliated with the Vatican Observatory. It's fairly light reading but poses some interesting questions.
    I found the quote, by one of the greatest physicists of his era, Feynman:

    "If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics.


    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Richard_Feynman
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  9. #409
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    Giant Stratolaunch aircraft lifts off from California

    https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...om-california/
    .
    .
    .
    "thnk god for few" jazzdelmar(12/12/11 12:50pm)
    .
    "When most of us couldn't buy a basket. Where do we get off anyway?!" siliconzag (11/17/06 5:45:41 pm)
    .
    I am monitoring the price of a donut
    .

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rangerzag View Post
    Giant Stratolaunch aircraft lifts off from California

    https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...om-california/
    Cool article.

    I had thought it had flown already.

    6 747 engines, wow.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  11. #411
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    Was your area okay with all the tornados, Dixie?

  12. #412
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    Yes, but just 30 miles north of us got nailed badly.

    I hate tornadoes.

    I actually slept right through the big stuff.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    Yes, but just 30 miles north of us got nailed badly.

    I hate tornadoes.

    I actually slept right through the big stuff.
    Glad to hear your town was okay, very scary how close it was thought!

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzgirl_127 View Post
    Glad to hear your town was okay, very scary how close it was thought!
    Yes, I drove to the store Sunday morning - to get provisions for the Masters, and there were branches all over the roads, it was very windy, that's for sure, and then very cold yesterday, didn't get above 60.

    Good day to stay in and watch TV all morning.

    Meteor showers dig up water on the moon


    Can't post pics on this new computer, not sure why: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...ater-moon-nasa

    Meteor showers bring moon geysers. A lunar orbiter spotted extra water around the moon when the moon passed through streams of cosmic dust that can cause meteor showers on Earth.

    The water was probably released from lunar soil by tiny meteorite impacts, planetary scientist Mehdi Benna of NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., and colleagues report April 15 in in Nature Geoscience. Those random impacts suggest water is buried all over the moon, rather than isolated in freezing dark craters — and that the moon has been wet for billions of years.
    Samples of lunar soil brought back by the Apollo astronauts suggested that the moon is bone dry. But in the last decade or so, several remote missions have found water deposits on the moon, including signs of frozen surface water in regions of permanent shadow near the poles (SN: 10/24/09, p. 10).
    Very cool short video on meteorites hitting the moon, 4 minutes.

    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  15. #415
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    Technology gets in the way of....technology.

    It's hard enough to predict the weather. A new obstacle to accuracy is about to go live and it has the potential to be dangerous.

    https://hackaday.com/2019/04/16/5g-b...sting-at-risk/

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markburn1 View Post
    Technology gets in the way of....technology.

    It's hard enough to predict the weather. A new obstacle to accuracy is about to go live and it has the potential to be dangerous.

    https://hackaday.com/2019/04/16/5g-b...sting-at-risk/
    I can't get through on that link. Do you have anything else? Highlight some, hit "Control c" and then put your cursor here and hit "control v" and we can at least see some of the concerns.

    My initial response is there is far too much money riding on accurate weather forecasting (not to mention, lives, but money moves the world) to let anything be a big detriment.

    If it's a satellite issue someone will shoot it down if need be to get it back to at least "before" to ensure the greatest accuracy.

    Soooo much money riding on the "3 day heads-up."
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by DixieZag View Post
    I can't get through on that link. Do you have anything else? Highlight some, hit "Control c" and then put your cursor here and hit "control v" and we can at least see some of the concerns.

    My initial response is there is far too much money riding on accurate weather forecasting (not to mention, lives, but money moves the world) to let anything be a big detriment.

    If it's a satellite issue someone will shoot it down if need be to get it back to at least "before" to ensure the greatest accuracy.

    Soooo much money riding on the "3 day heads-up."
    'For water vapor, 23.8-GHz turns out to be very useful, and very much in danger of picking up interference from 5G, which will use frequencies very close to that. Since microwave radiometers are passive receivers, they’ll see pretty much everything that emits microwave signals in that range, like the thousands of cell sites that will be needed to support a full 5G rollout. Losing faint but reliable water vapor signals in a sea of 5G noise is the essential problem facing weather forecasters, and it’s one they’ve faced before.'
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  18. #418
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    'At the 2019 annual meeting of the American Meteorological Society, Sidharth Misra, a research engineer at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, presented data showing how commercial enterprises can have unintended consequences on the scientific community. Between 2004 and 2007, satellite-based microwave radiometers detected an increase in noise in a curious arc across the top of the United States. A similar signal was detected by another satellite, with the addition of huge signals being returned from the waters off each coast and the Great Lakes. The signals turned out to be reflections from geosynchronous direct TV satellites, bouncing off the surface and swamping the water vapor signals the weather satellites were trying to measure.'
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  19. #419
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    But surely the scientists are overreacting, right? Can losing one piece of data from as complex a puzzle as weather prediction really have that much of an impact? Probably yes. The water vapor data returned by microwave radiometers like the Advanced Microwave Sounding Unit (AMSU) aboard a number of weather satellites is estimated to reduce the error of weather forecasts by 17%, the largest contributor by far among a group of dozens of other modalities.

    The loss of microwave water vapor data could have catastrophic real-world consequences. In late October of 2012, as Hurricane Sandy barreled up the East coast of the United States, forecasts showed that the storm would take a late turn to the northwest and make landfall in New Jersey. An analysis of the forecast if the microwave radiometer data had not been available showed the storm continuing in a wide arc and coming ashore in the Gulf of Maine. The availability of ASMU data five days in advance of the storm’s landfall bought civil authorities the time needed to prepare, and probably reduced the casualties caused by the “Storm of the Century”, still the deadliest storm of the 2012 season.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  20. #420
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    So exactly where are we with this process? The FCC auction of licenses for the Upper Microwave Flexible Use Service (UMFUS), which offers almost 3000 licenses in the 24-GHz band, began on March 14, 2019, despite a letter from NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine and Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross requesting that it be delayed. FCC Chairman Ajit Pai rejected the request, stating that there was an “absence of any technical basis for the objection.”

    Will the 5G rollout negatively impact weather forecasts? It’s not clear. Licensees are required to limit out-of-band emissions, but with so many 5G sites needed to cover the intended service areas, and with the critical 23.8-GHz water vapor frequency so close to the UMFUS band, there’s not much room for error. And once the 5G cat is out of the bag, it’ll be difficult to protect that crucial slice of the microwave spectrum.

    Whatever happens, it doesn’t look good for weather forecasting. The UMFUS auction proceeds apace, and has raised almost $2 billion so far. Companies willing to spend that much on spectrum will certainly do whatever it takes to realize their investment, and in the end, not only will science likely suffer, but lives may be put at risk for the sake of 5G as our toolset for predicting dangerous weather faces this new data-gathering challenge.
    Hoping you have a sense of humor too!

  21. #421
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    https://hackaday.com/

    Try this Dix.

    First story

  22. #422
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    Thanks for the assist Will.

  23. #423
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    Wow, so it's the Intractable encroach of the demand for immediate YouTube while driving down the interstate that might mush-up doppler radar.

    Just as Mark described, I shoulda' known it was more complicated than I thought.

    OTOH, there literally IS too much money at stake in weather accuracy that I think it could push back 5G if necessary, and then they can work on other means to pick up the water vapor …

    I have no idea what I'm talking about. But the story about what happened with Sandy is totally enlightening on my main point, they aren't going to let something interfere that much. Congress will have to step in or something, bc we literally cannot "afford" to not have that type of accuracy.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    Mark Twain.

  24. #424
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    I'm reading this right now

    'I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.'
    - Gandalf the Grey

    ________________________________



    Foo Time

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    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...want-back.html

    "I was lost and now am found"

    Would be really trippy if it had some kind of onboard recording device.

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